Synoptico 334 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 One other thing to remember, not all flips are created equal, some are "flips" because ND is moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKelleyIrish 1,198 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 (edited) 50 minutes ago, ndomer4 said: Well I just listed a number of guys who flipped from ND, the majority of them did absolutely nothing (13 busts to 4 stars). Here you are mocking the narrative, without providing any evidence. I've compiled a list of guys who flip flopped and the trend is that they are more likely to not pan out. You keep saying it is sour grapes, yet I have shown a trend. Go show me all the flips from ND who turned into something... You provided limited data...I looked at 22 guys, but didn't post. CJ Williams played as a frosh for USC this year, Moore played as a frosh at UF, and Argu played as a frosh at Vandy.... Walker only got stats in one game at UM, but Nickel is the only decommit to not register stats as a frosh from the 22 decommits... So 4 of 5 frosh decommits from 22 got early time... Enough data? The problem is nobody tracks guys leave, especially early. They only remember the big names, or late flips, and the busts stick in their mind... And still meaningless, without comps (across other teams). Edited December 26, 2022 by OKelleyIrish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndomer4 532 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said: You provided limited data...I looked at 22 guys, but didn't post. CJ Williams played as a frosh for USC this year, Moore played as a frosh at UF, and Argu played as a frosh at Vandy.... Walker only got stats in one game at UM, but Nickel is the only decommit to not register stats as a frosh from the 22 decommits... So 4 of 5 frosh decommits from 22 got early time... Enough data? The problem is nobody tracks guys leave, especially early. They only remember the big names, or late flips, and the busts stick in their mind... And still meaningless, without comps (across other teams). Well in todays day and age there are way more decommits. I also looked mostly from about 2010-2020. I omitted recent flips as it’s too early to tell if they are going to turn into productive players. I understand your post and I can see how ND fanatics, like myself, can perpetuate this narrative. It is funny, but I would still argue that the majority of guys who flip (especially multiple times), rarely turn into really good college players, regardless of their choice of university or amateur team. My guess is these guys are easily distracted and lack discipline/integrity. I’d also surmise that they might be enjoying the benefits football brings to them off the field more than they enjoy the grind. If this is true, it makes sense for these guys to cash in ASAP. When I was being recruited in Canada (2010), I was a low to mid level recruit. The minute I committed to the University of Waterloo, I was done. The next day, the three other schools recruiting me called and I politely told them I had committed to Waterloo and thanked them for everything. I get this is a different level with the money, media coverage and NIL, but to me, a commitment is a commitment. Don’t commit if you’re not 100%. Some might disagree, but I think players who do this lack many valuable traits and that is why they rarely find success. Sorry for going off, this just irritates me. Rant done. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND_JACK 321 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 (edited) I actually think you both Ndomer and Okelley have valid points. ND fanatics immediate reaction is to put down a flipper. They’re mad and it helps them let off steam. You’re not usually going to read positive posts about a flipper leaving ND (we all know they are mentally unstable and have character flaws…lol). But at the same time if a flipper comes to ND not ( a few without naming names….lol) many fanatics are going to post negative remarks. We don’t come on here to read negative opinions about “our” team. We can read those on the USC or Michigan sites. Also depending on what you consider a really good player impacts things. Is it seeing a lot of playing time, is it starting, do your stats have to be at a certain level, do you have to become an all conference or all American (yes I said it Stanford), or do you have to be drafted. Lots of variables and no one really tracks flippers. I can see both sides. Edited December 26, 2022 by ND_JACK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKelleyIrish 1,198 Posted December 26, 2022 Share Posted December 26, 2022 28 minutes ago, ndomer4 said: Well in todays day and age there are way more decommits. I also looked mostly from about 2010-2020. I omitted recent flips as it’s too early to tell if they are going to turn into productive players. I understand your post and I can see how ND fanatics, like myself, can perpetuate this narrative. It is funny, but I would still argue that the majority of guys who flip (especially multiple times), rarely turn into really good college players, regardless of their choice of university or amateur team. My guess is these guys are easily distracted and lack discipline/integrity. I’d also surmise that they might be enjoying the benefits football brings to them off the field more than they enjoy the grind. If this is true, it makes sense for these guys to cash in ASAP. When I was being recruited in Canada (2010), I was a low to mid level recruit. The minute I committed to the University of Waterloo, I was done. The next day, the three other schools recruiting me called and I politely told them I had committed to Waterloo and thanked them for everything. I get this is a different level with the money, media coverage and NIL, but to me, a commitment is a commitment. Don’t commit if you’re not 100%. Some might disagree, but I think players who do this lack many valuable traits and that is why they rarely find success. Sorry for going off, this just irritates me. Rant done. I think any real conversation requires comps. General (not just decommits) bust % across all ND players, vs all schools (by star grade). And then bust % of ND decommits vs all other school decommits. And also ND players that decommit from other schools and play for ND. Without those comps, it's just opinion and emotional driven searches. In general, recruiting isn't done until a signature. Decommits happen to every team. It's just college football. And ND is an easy and great insurance policy for early commits from injury or if their stats slide before NSD.. That's why we started to say you're not a commitment if you are taking visits. And if a kid can get millions somewhere else, I can't blame them. Millions invested wisely, is life changing money. We need to do better with NIL. No reason to be competitive given our boosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDomer 1,290 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 I was definitely better off when I broke it off with ex-girlfriends. It’s a great way of coping with their absence. Same for high school recruits 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blammm 29 Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 (edited) On 12/24/2022 at 8:53 AM, ndomer4 said: Off the top of my head: Tee Shepherd, Eddie Vanderdoes, Aaron Lynch, Gunner Kiel, Danny Mattingly, Elijah Hood, Deontay Greenberry, Deion Walker, Omar Hunter, Chris Harper, Knox, Robert Beal, Demetris Robertson. Fewer turned out: Alex Anzalone, Taylor Decker, Ronald Darby, Aaron Lynch. Help me out if I'm missing any. Chris Little (UGA-OT-Bust) and Greg Little (UNC-WR-NFL 2nd Rd Pick) both flipped on NSD 2007. Edited December 27, 2022 by Blammm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGoldenDomer 2,046 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 12/22/2022 at 6:22 PM, Rocketsan said: I don’t want any kid that acts like this. The hat game is tired and makes you look like a douche. I want kids who want to be here and only here. If I can feel the magic of this campus, surely a kid whose heart is in ball can as well. If it’s not in your heart to come here, play it straight and be honest. Recruiting is just going to get more and more ridiculous… That’s stupid because now their starting FS is either DJ Brown or Ramon Henderson. And frankly, both are not very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 773 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 17 hours ago, XanderCrews said: That’s stupid because now their starting FS is either DJ Brown or Ramon Henderson. And frankly, both are not very good. Again, I’d rather go to battle with guys who want to be here, knows what this place stands for, and act like responsible men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rocketsan said: Again, I’d rather go to battle with guys who want to be here, knows what this place stands for, and act like responsible men. I’d rather have someone who was a good player. Neither Brown or Henderson fit that criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 773 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, XanderCrews said: I’d rather have someone who was a good player. Neither Brown or Henderson fit that criteria. I don’t tolerate disrespect and disregard for the work our recruiting staff do. Take that sh!t to another school who does… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Rocketsan said: I don’t tolerate disrespect and disregard for the work our recruiting staff do. Take that sh!t to another school who does… IDC what you tolerate. The hard truth is you don’t win Titles with players like Brown & Henderson. You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a soft spot for below avg players and expect to win a Title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 773 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 hours ago, XanderCrews said: IDC what you tolerate. The hard truth is you don’t win Titles with players like Brown & Henderson. You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a soft spot for below avg players and expect to win a Title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, Rocketsan said: How’d those 3* tryhards do for TCU when they went up vs UGA? You can simp for the scrubs all you want, that doesn’t change the fact 3* don’t win titles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 773 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Just now, XanderCrews said: How’d those 3* tryhards do for TCU when they went up vs UGA? You can simp for the scrubs all you want, that doesn’t change the fact 3* don’t win titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Rocketsan said: Again, I’d rather go to battle with guys who want to be here, knows what this place stands for, and act like responsible men. I’d rather go to battle with someone who is good at their job, so I don’t die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rocketsan said: Is that all you got? No real response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDhoosier 1,232 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Xander, chill out man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanderCrews 16 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Just now, NDhoosier said: Xander, chill out man... Do you guys want ND to win a title or not? You win Titles with players like Bowen, not like Dj Brown. Those are just facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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