ND Men's Basketball

[irishrb 0]

Great win! ND withstood A LOT of home reffing and managed to survive a long fg drought to pull it off. These guys are really playing as a team.

I've been very impressed with how unselfish Grant has been. I'm also in the camp where Brey needs to sub a little more. I particularly think Beachem and Torres need more time. Auguste is way too inconsistent for me and still needs to define his presence down low more. Con is simply the man this year. The work he is doing down low is phenomenal.

[dangeruss 6]

with the way ND gave up the lead late in the game I thought UNC was going to steal one.

 

I thought grants 5th foul was questionable.

 

ND was awesome from the free throw line until it mattered most at the end.

 

when UNC shot their last shot from 3pt land and 3 irish defenders jumped toward him all I could think was NO, DONT FOUL HIM!

[Domers23 61]

He is playing multiple guys just not enough. Beachem, Burgett, Geben, and Torres could all spell guys for longer periods of time.

 

 

Exactly, and it is going to come back to hurt this team and the end of games and in March just like it always does. Against GT 42, 45, 50, 50 Those were the minutes for 4 ND starters. Then those same 4 turn around 2 days later and get 31, 39, 37, 32. They can not with stand a whole season playing their best basketball doing this. They are going to wear down at the end of games and at the end of the season. They just are. Vasturia has no business playing as much as he does. Torres and Beachum should be getting many more minutes. Colson should be getting minutes too. This teams play would not go down that much giving these guys more minutes, but Mr. stubborn must think so.

[LasVegasIrish 0]

Exactly, and it is going to come back to hurt this team and the end of games and in March just like it always does. Against GT 42, 45, 50, 50 Those were the minutes for 4 ND starters. Then those same 4 turn around 2 days later and get 31, 39, 37, 32. They can not with stand a whole season playing their best basketball doing this. They are going to wear down at the end of games and at the end of the season. They just are. Vasturia has no business playing as much as he does. Torres and Beachum should be getting many more minutes. Colson should be getting minutes too. This teams play would not go down that much giving these guys more minutes, but Mr. stubborn must think so.

 

I'm down with Colson getting some minutes as well. In limited time this year he has looked really good.

[Donjuan 16]

He is playing multiple guys just not enough. Beachem, Burgett, Geben, and Torres could all spell guys for longer periods of time.

 

You can't play those guys in a game like last night. Did you see what happened when Geben came in? Two quick fouls which resulted in 4 quick points, and two missed rebounds, one which led to a three-pointer which cut the deficit to 3. His feet were too slow to guard UNC last night and Brey saw it and yanked him out before ND gave up any more points.

 

Burgett has played pretty bad as of late and is a HUGE liability like Geben on the offensive side of the ball. Not to mention, also like Geben, Burgett is averaging a foul a minute and he turns it over the most on the entire team according to the ACC stats posted last night on Noi's chat. If you're going to have to play small ball due to lack of size with your team (1 big and 4 smalls), you have to use guys who can contribute offensively. Burgett, as of late, has offered neither.

 

Torres was simply too small to be able to defend their post players. I love Torres and what he brings to the table, but Brey needed five offensive weapons last night who could score to counter UNC's size advantage. Torres does not offer up the ability to shoot from outside nor does he have the size to defend in a close game where they're pounding it down low.

 

And VJ. He did play and played wonderfully! Shot very well from deep and grabbed a key rebound when it mattered. Now VJ shoots well but does not drive as aggressively as the rest do. But overall, I thought his rotation was good last night.

 

Everybody's going to have some sort of critique on Brey following a close WIN against a ranked UNC team at THEIR PLACE. But you need to follow the players actual performances in-game to realize what may or may not be a reason so-and-so isn't playing against this team. You also have to factor in what the other team is doing. UNC was pounding it down low and ND wouldn't afford to have certain players out there who are prone to fouling every minute and then giving UNC points with the clock stopped.

 

Knocking Brey for poor depth and substitution is not new. We've been doing it for years, and rightfully so. But watching last night's game, I can see why he did what he did. Every time you put one of those guys in, UNC goes on a run. And not to mention, half of the time during the run the clock was stopped because they were shooting free-throws. You just can't win like that against UNC at their home. So Brey chose to the option of running his stallions all game long--knowing it could lead to late game tired shooting syndrome, but realizing that was the best chance of winning instead of bringing them back into the game facing a deficit given up by the likes of Geben and others. (said so in his presser)

 

I think his strategy of running a mild burn offense but with several drives instead of one at the end, is a smart move to counter his team relying on 7-8 guys to play most of the game. "Rest on offense" has been a motto since my playing days and it looks like Brey's going that route as well. But against UNC, you don't put in guys who foul every minute and don't contribute offensively. That's just too much to overcome.

[dangeruss 6]

what are NDs chances at winning the ACC?

 

I think this is a better team then the team that got the #2 seed a few years ago.

[lucid 0]

Don Juan - spot on. In the case of Geben, unless he catches up to the speed of the game this year [and there's prolly a 50/50 chance of that] his role on the team will be limited to 4-5 minutes in the first half to help keep Auguste out of foul trouble and help keep his legs for the second half. In the case of Colson, he doesn't belong on the court yet in games like these. He will contribute a lot next year & has some great skills, but his defensive positioning is terrible and he doesn't yet understand the flow of the offense. Also, anyone complaining about Vasturia getting too much time, doesn't watch the game closely. He's our second best defender behind Jackson - perfect footwork, never out of position & asked to defend the oppositions best wing player every game. Even when he's not scoring, he's a big part of why this team wins. Last night he legitimately was struggling on the offensive end & Brey gambled that VJ's offense would offset the loss of Vasturia's defense. The gamble paid off [and was probably made given that UNC is a pretty terrible shooting team]. But you will rightly see Vasturia on the floor for a minimum of 30 minutes every game this season.

 

One additional point. Almost every coach will tell you that 'rest' is over-rated. Yes, bigs tend to need some rest & I think getting Pat back to 35 minutes a game would be good [so please Burgett, start getting back into the shape you were in at the beginning of the ACC season last year], but having your 1, 2 & 3 play 35+ a game is not only not a problem, but common practice even in the pros. There are a ton of teams that have won the NCAA with a very short rotation - in fact the most recent UCONN championships came with teams that only had a 6-7 man rotation. It is a myth that guys can't play 35+ minutes all season & still compete for the NCAA. Further, that has not been Brey's problem in the tournament, athleticism has. And for the first time since his first couple of teams, we now have the athleticism to compete in the tournament.

[EddieAngel 508]

what are NDs chances at winning the ACC?

 

I think this is a better team then the team that got the #2 seed a few years ago.

 

Honestly, not great. The team is playing very well but they have the biggest challenge to date coming up with UVA. They also still have to play Louisville, and Duke twice. Both Duke games are late in the season when the minutes on our starters will really be adding up.

[jfschellcrna 11]

He is playing multiple guys just not enough. Beachem, Burgett, Geben, and Torres could all spell guys for longer periods of time.

in the words of Rocketsan...."this X 50"......

[Donjuan 16]

in the words of Rocketsan...."this X 50"......

 

You can't play guys who don't contribute offensively when running a 4-1 motion dribble-drive. Like I said before, those guys mentioned minus VJ are averaging close to a foul a minute which would put UNC in the bonus even earlier than they were. As much as we want to believe the grass is greener with the younger players or just to give the starters a rest, the truth of the matter is ND would have lost had they implemented this "strategy."

 

Some of y'all need to actually watch the games, especially when these guys come in. Watch how the guy they're guarding ends up on the free-throw line at a 50% clip. Watch how they're a liability on the offensive side of the basket and watch how their defender sags off of them and double teams are other options. ND doesn't get the talent UNC and others get. The depth isn't there like it is with other programs, understandably so.

 

Blanket statements aren't going to make it so. :tongue1:

[jfschellcrna 11]

you're just a know it all jack a$$..........

[EddieAngel 508]

You can't play guys who don't contribute offensively when running a 4-1 motion dribble-drive. Like I said before, those guys mentioned minus VJ are averaging close to a foul a minute which would put UNC in the bonus even earlier than they were. As much as we want to believe the grass is greener with the younger players or just to give the starters a rest, the truth of the matter is ND would have lost had they implemented this "strategy."

 

Some of y'all need to actually watch the games, especially when these guys come in. Watch how the guy they're guarding ends up on the free-throw line at a 50% clip. Watch how they're a liability on the offensive side of the basket and watch how their defender sags off of them and double teams are other options. ND doesn't get the talent UNC and others get. The depth isn't there like it is with other programs, understandably so.

 

Blanket statements aren't going to make it so. :tongue1:

 

UNC was not the time or place for spelling starters, and I don't see them getting a lot of sitting time next game either. There is a time and a place for rest though and I just hope that these guys are still in their "prime" when we get into late Jan/Feb and the schedule heats up. Double Duke and Louisville at the back end of the season, who set THAT up?

[Donjuan 16]

you're just a know it all jack a$$..........

 

Basketball is my shet, betch. Lol

[LasVegasIrish 0]

You can't play those guys in a game like last night. Did you see what happened when Geben came in? Two quick fouls which resulted in 4 quick points, and two missed rebounds, one which led to a three-pointer which cut the deficit to 3. His feet were too slow to guard UNC last night and Brey saw it and yanked him out before ND gave up any more points.

 

Burgett has played pretty bad as of late and is a HUGE liability like Geben on the offensive side of the ball. Not to mention, also like Geben, Burgett is averaging a foul a minute and he turns it over the most on the entire team according to the ACC stats posted last night on Noi's chat. If you're going to have to play small ball due to lack of size with your team (1 big and 4 smalls), you have to use guys who can contribute offensively. Burgett, as of late, has offered neither.

 

Torres was simply too small to be able to defend their post players. I love Torres and what he brings to the table, but Brey needed five offensive weapons last night who could score to counter UNC's size advantage. Torres does not offer up the ability to shoot from outside nor does he have the size to defend in a close game where they're pounding it down low.

 

And VJ. He did play and played wonderfully! Shot very well from deep and grabbed a key rebound when it mattered. Now VJ shoots well but does not drive as aggressively as the rest do. But overall, I thought his rotation was good last night.

 

Everybody's going to have some sort of critique on Brey following a close WIN against a ranked UNC team at THEIR PLACE. But you need to follow the players actual performances in-game to realize what may or may not be a reason so-and-so isn't playing against this team. You also have to factor in what the other team is doing. UNC was pounding it down low and ND wouldn't afford to have certain players out there who are prone to fouling every minute and then giving UNC points with the clock stopped.

 

Knocking Brey for poor depth and substitution is not new. We've been doing it for years, and rightfully so. But watching last night's game, I can see why he did what he did. Every time you put one of those guys in, UNC goes on a run. And not to mention, half of the time during the run the clock was stopped because they were shooting free-throws. You just can't win like that against UNC at their home. So Brey chose to the option of running his stallions all game long--knowing it could lead to late game tired shooting syndrome, but realizing that was the best chance of winning instead of bringing them back into the game facing a deficit given up by the likes of Geben and others. (said so in his presser)

 

I think his strategy of running a mild burn offense but with several drives instead of one at the end, is a smart move to counter his team relying on 7-8 guys to play most of the game. "Rest on offense" has been a motto since my playing days and it looks like Brey's going that route as well. But against UNC, you don't put in guys who foul every minute and don't contribute offensively. That's just too much to overcome.

 

I totally get that DJ. I've been one of Brey's biggest supporters throughout the years. I definitely understand Geben and Burgett not getting minutes. Geben simply isn't ready, and Burgett is simply not that good. I do think Beachem and Torres could spell some guys though, especially PC so he has some more rest. Unfortunately, PC plays a huge role on the defensive glass so it's hard to sit him. However, I do think Torres could have played well against UNC. He is tough and gritty much like PC. As for the FTs, I don't think it will be much of an issue going forward to be honest.

[Donjuan 16]

I totally get that DJ. I've been one of Brey's biggest supporters throughout the years. I definitely understand Geben and Burgett not getting minutes. Geben simply isn't ready, and Burgett is simply not that good. I do think Beachem and Torres could spell some guys though, especially PC so he has some more rest. Unfortunately, PC plays a huge role on the defensive glass so it's hard to sit him. However, I do think Torres could have played well against UNC. He is tough and gritty much like PC. As for the FTs, I don't think it will be much of an issue going forward to be honest.

 

Point taken. But I still think UNC would have scored easily on Torres down low, unfortunately. And that's no knock on him, just a size issue. Heck, even Auguste couldn't contain Meeks and he's gotta couple inches on Torres and better leaping ability. Whatever the case may be, ND won despite going cold for the final 7 minutes of the game. Brey coached a really good game and I have to commend him for it. Of all the years I've laid into him and his weak teams and strategies, he really did have them ready to play.

 

**small nit, let's start creating actual gameday threads and not one, 9 page running conglomerate. thanks!

[LasVegasIrish 0]

Point taken. But I still think UNC would have scored easily on Torres down low, unfortunately. And that's no knock on him, just a size issue. Heck, even Auguste couldn't contain Meeks and he's gotta couple inches on Torres and better leaping ability. Whatever the case may be, ND won despite going cold for the final 7 minutes of the game. Brey coached a really good game and I have to commend him for it. Of all the years I've laid into him and his weak teams and strategies, he really did have them ready to play.

 

**small nit, let's start creating actual gameday threads and not one, 9 page running conglomerate. thanks!

 

I'm down for that. I'll start a Virginia thread on Saturday morning if no one else does.

[irishrb 0]

First, that was a great win. There were a lot of impressive things that went on. ND's offensive spacing was great and they had several possessions where their ball movement was seriously flawless.

I loved seeing Beachum get some quality minutes. I also think Torres could have come in and provided some energy to the court.

[irishrush 60]

I can't think of his name, but how has the freshman PG looked? I have seen him in some mop up time in earlier games and thought he looked functional. I have missed most of the ACC games due to my daughter's basketball. Has he gotten many good minutes against better teams?

[Irish_Convert 1]

This is a good article on Pat Connaughton:

 

http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=12133309&src=desktop&rand=ref~{%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2F34d2Y4zNjQ%22}

[irishrb 0]

It looks like Auguste is going to be back today for a home game against Miami. If true, that should be a good mental boost for the Irish. I expect a higher scoring, fun game with Grant breaking out of his mini scoring slump with 20 plus points and the Irish actually hitting their free throws at the end to seal it off!