Charge him with Treason

[nd1baby 0]

The government is making me nervous. Controlling people, controlling the economy, controlling the weather...too much, just too much.

[echo88 74]

Nope, not a dig against you for not joining the military. Any idea what percentage of NSA/CIA/DoD/DIA, etc civilians are engineers? Im just making the point that it's easy to sit back and enjoy the luxury of safety while questioning how others provide it for you. Do your part. Everyone should. You wanna do away with TSA yet you have no alternative to offer. You want to do away with data mining yet you offer no other alternative.

 

As with most of the drivel you're spilling here today, your information about Manning is wrong. Manning was never sent to Gitmo. He went from Kuwait straight to Quantico....then to Leavenworth. You should really start doing some research instead of spewing ridiculous half stories you read online. Then again, you're probably a 9/11 conspiracy theorist as well.

 

BUT, if you want to talk about his "torture"....we got flack for "torturing" real terrorists--if you call water-boarding torture. Last time I checked, it would be a great day if that's all Al Qaeda did to their detainees. Manning's "torture" was not being allowed outside and having his clothes taken away. Pretty far cry from having your genitals removed and burned after having your eyes gouged out.....that's right before the beheading.

 

That tranny nutjob had his clothes taken because he threatened to hang himself with literally anything left in his cell. Sleeves, laces, pant legs. They responded by taking his clothes. Boo hoo. You should read about the days before his arrest below. He is a friggin loon. He wanted a coward's death but he deserves much worse.

 

......"Manning sent an e-mail to his master sergeant, Paul Adkins, saying he was suffering from gender dysphoria and attaching a photograph of himself dressed as a woman. Captain Steven Lim, Manning's commander, said he first saw the e-mail after Manning's arrest – when information about hormone replacement therapy was found in his room in Baghdad – and learned that Manning had been calling himself Breanna. He said he had set up Twitter and YouTube accounts in Breanna's name to give her a digital presence, writing in the Lamo chat: "i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me ... plastered all over the world press ....

 

On April 30, he posted on Facebook that he was utterly lost, and over the next few days that "Bradley Manning is not a piece of equipment," that he was "beyond frustrated," and "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend despite months of relationship ambiguity ..." On May 7, he seemed to spiral out of control. According to army witnesses, he was found curled into a fetal position in a storage cupboard, with a knife at his feet, and had cut the words "I want" into a vinyl chair. A few hours later he had an altercation with a female intelligence analyst, Specialist Jihrleah Showman, during which he punched her in the face...."

 

Sounds like a hero to me. I wonder what you thought of Ronaiah when he did **** like this....

Edited June 25, 2013 by echo88

[GunSlinger 28]

The people complaining how their civil rights are violated will be the first ones to cry about how the government didn't do enough after the next terrorist attack.

[EddieAngel 508]

Ummm... he fled with classified documents after taking a leave of absence from his job? You might pocket some cash from the register and bail if you work for Arby's, but common sense says you don't do this when you work for the NSA.

 

I say, let him live out his heroic days in North Korea, China, or whatever is currently passing for the USSR. I am sure the small pile of documents he absconded with should be enough to get him a cheeseburger or a cup of coffee, or whatever passes for those things in whatever craphole communist paradise decides to harbor him.

 

I can assure you that no one else is going to risk harboring a spy out of the love of personal liberty. Until Hippy actually becomes a country this guy is either going Commie or he will stand trial.

[echo88 74]

The people complaining how their civil rights are violated will be the first ones to cry about how the government didn't do enough after the next terrorist attack.

 

Yep. That's the way it goes. It's the American way.

[EddieAngel 508]

The people complaining how their civil rights are violated will be the first ones to cry about how the government didn't do enough after the next terrorist attack.

 

Exactly. Everyone wants security put total anonymity, personal privacy. I wouldn't mind the government nosing out of my business now and then, or faster lines at the airport, but I would be awful pissed if an airplane or truck full of Jihadists ran over my cat on the way to blowing up my mailbox.

[echo88 74]

Ummm... he fled with classified documents after taking a leave of absence from his job? You might pocket some cash from the register and bail if you work for Arby's, but common sense says you don't do this when you work for the NSA.

 

I say, let him live out his heroic days in North Korea, China, or whatever is currently passing for the USSR. I am sure the small pile of documents he absconded with should be enough to get him a cheeseburger or a cup of coffee, or whatever passes for those things in whatever craphole communist paradise decides to harbor him.

 

I can assure you that no one else is going to risk harboring a spy out of the love of personal liberty. Until Hippy actually becomes a country this guy is either going Commie or he will stand trial.

 

I'm hedging my bets on suicide for Snowden. Then watch as all the conspiracy theorists say it was staged. Lol....

[chirodomer 47]

I'd put a bullet in his head right now!

 

He's a self centered, selfish, little, traitor! This whole damn program has so much oversight and while they could pull up your information, the cold hard truth is that 99.9% of the **** they see would be boring. The Verizon people can pull up every nude selfie you take right now and they don't have a warrant! This whole program is based off of finding patterns, relationships and trends. I feel like he has damaged relations with other countries and really did nothing to help the average citizen. Do you honestly think that the Russians, Cubans or Any other communist country will give a **** about his civil rights once the info is gleaned?

 

The truth is that you really don't want to Know what is going on with most of this stuff. 99% of these CIA, NSA, and clandestine guys are bored off their *** the majority of the time and about 1% of the time it is exciting. I'm just happy that these guys and gals are willing to do this tedious bullshit so I can focus on my version of the American dream and Notre Dame football.

 

Thanks for guarding the perimeter to Echo and all of you guys who just intercepted this message.

 

PS I was initially agitated too but once I saw how much oversight was done on this program then I just took a big chill.

[jessemoore97 1,291]

I have to agree with Echo on many of his points and experience with these matters. The FEDS need a written action plan for just about everything, including wiping their butts lol. Seriously there is sooo much oversight involved in Federal investigations.

 

From my own experience working with the Feds, especially DEA and ATF, there is an inordinate amount of paperwork and red tape that has to be gone through to secure lines of surveillance like we are discussing. I know that they have to go through and exercise many, many other resources in order to think about wiretapping, etc. These warrants are often tens to hundreds of pages in length, which is definitely a lot lengthier than the hundred or better warrants that I wrote when I was an investigator working robberies, local narcotics, and what not. Once the warrant is completed it still has to go through a number of supervisory and legal oversight, which includes local, regional, and national level administrators before its put before a judge(s).

 

Quite frankly I was amazed at the level of thoroughness and complexity in Federal level that this process takes. It was pretty eye opening compared to what I was doing at a local level. Ultimately people have to realize that throughout this process of revue and oversight, many people have a hand in the decision making and approval/disapproval of what transpires. All those people have a wide variety of backgrounds, political beliefs, and legal opinions ranging from very liberal to very conservative regardless of which party is controlling the White House at the time. The folks putting together the investigations, warrants, etc have to continually navigate those hurdles and work within the system in order to make things happen. Believe me they don't always get their way despite the necessity or justification they lay out to those above them.

[TheRizz 5]

The people complaining how their civil rights are violated will be the first ones to cry about how the government didn't do enough after the next terrorist attack.

 

The constitution and the bill of rights are very clear. I submit that they should be taught in schools again.

[Rockets Revenge 0]

When you actually do something to help the U.S. fight enemies located on our soil, you let me know. I've done my part. I have fought the enemy from within the United States. I have been to Afghanistan multiple times. I have been to Africa multiple times. I've been to Iraq multiple times. I can tell you that these people wouldn't bat an eye at killing you, everyone you love, and your way of life. I'm glad you're willing to eradicate our ability to stop them from orchestrating another attack that will kill many times what 9/11 accomplished, but that's your right. All you do is question the methods employed to unconditionally offer that protection to you.

 

Who stopped Richard Reid from detonating a shoe bomb on American Airlines flight 63 on 12/22/01?

 

Who stopped Abdul Farouk Abdulmutallab from detonating a bomb on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 above Detroit on 12/25/09?

 

I'll give you a hint....it wasn't the TSA or the NSA!!!

 

American citizens stopped the 2 largest airplane hijacking attempts since 9/11 not the TSA or the NSA.

 

What has the TSA done?

 

- 500 TSA agents have been fired or suspended for stealing from passenger luggage since the agency's creation in November 2001.

 

- In 2008 an investigative report by WTAE in Pittsburgh discovered that despite over 400 reports of baggage theft, about half of which the TSA reimbursed passengers for, not a single arrest had been made.

 

- In September 2012, ABC News interviewed former TSA agent Pythias Brown, who has admitted to stealing more than $800,000 worth of items during his employment with the agency. Brown stated that it was "very convenient to steal" and poor morale within the agency is what causes agents to steal from passengers.

 

- The TSA has also been criticized for not responding properly to theft and failing to reimburse passengers for stolen goods. For example, between 2011 and 2012, passengers at Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport reported $300,000 in property lost or damaged by the TSA. The agency only reimbursed $35,000 of those claims. Similar statistics were found at Jacksonville International Airport - passengers reported $22,000 worth of goods missing or damaged over the course of 15 months. The TSA only reimbursed $800.

 

- Two studies by a group of Cornell University researchers have found that strict airport security has the unintended consequence of increasing road fatalities, as would-be air travelers decide to drive and are exposed to the far greater risk of dying in a car accident. In 2005, the researchers looked at the immediate aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, and found that the change in passenger travel modes led to 242 added driving deaths per month. In all, they estimated that about 1,200 driving deaths could be attributed to the short-term effects of the attacks. The study attributes the change in traveler behavior to two factors: fear of terrorist attacks and the wish to avoid the inconvenience of strict security measures; no attempt is made to estimate separately the influence of each of these two factors.

 

- A 2007 study also noted that strict airport security hurts the airline industry; it was estimated that the 6% reduction in the number of passengers in the fourth quarter of 2002 cost the industry $1.1 billion in lost business.

 

- In 2007, a unencrypted computer hard drive containing Social Security numbers, bank data, and payroll information for about 100,000 employees was lost or stolen from TSA headquarters. Kip Hawley alerted TSA employees to the loss, and apologized for it. The agency asked the FBI to investigate. There were no reports that the data was later misused.

 

 

- In 2007, Christopher Soghoian, a blogger and security researcher, said that a TSA website was collecting private passenger information in an unsecured manner, exposing passengers to identity theft. The website allowed passengers to dispute their inclusion on the No Fly List. The TSA fixed the website several days after the press picked up the story. The U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform investigated the matter, and said the website had operated insecurely for more than four months, during which more than 247 people had submitted personal information. The report said the TSA manager who awarded the contract for creating the website was a high-school friend and former employee of the owner of the firm that received the contract.

 

- The TSA fired 28 agents and suspended 15 others after an investigation determined they failed to scan checked baggage for explosives.

 

- The TSA was accused of having performed poorly at the 2009 Presidential Inauguration viewing areas, which left thousands of ticket holders excluded from the event in overcrowded conditions, while those who had arrived before the checkpoints were in place avoided screening altogether.

 

- In 2012, a poll conducted by the Frequent Business Traveler organization found that 56% of frequent fliers were "not satisfied" with the job the TSA was doing. 57% rated the TSA as doing a "poor job," and 34% rated it "fair." Only 1% of those surveyed rated the agency's work as excellent.

 

So why should the American public pay $7.6 BILLION per year for an agency that is ineffective, violates citizens civil rights, and actually causes more security threats than it prevents?

[echo88 74]

I have to agree with Echo on many of his points and experience with these matters. The FEDS need a written action plan for just about everything, including wiping their butts lol. Seriously there is sooo much oversight involved in Federal investigations.

 

From my own experience working with the Feds, especially DEA and ATF, there is an inordinate amount of paperwork and red tape that has to be gone through to secure lines of surveillance like we are discussing. I know that they have to go through and exercise many, many other resources in order to think about wiretapping, etc. These warrants are often tens to hundreds of pages in length, which is definitely a lot lengthier than the hundred or better warrants that I wrote when I was an investigator working robberies, local narcotics, and what not. Once the warrant is completed it still has to go through a number of supervisory and legal oversight, which includes local, regional, and national level administrators before its put before a judge(s).

 

Quite frankly I was amazed at the level of thoroughness and complexity in Federal level that this process takes. It was pretty eye opening compared to what I was doing at a local level. Ultimately people have to realize that throughout this process of revue and oversight, many people have a hand in the decision making and approval/disapproval of what transpires. All those people have a wide variety of backgrounds, political beliefs, and legal opinions ranging from very liberal to very conservative regardless of which party is controlling the White House at the time. The folks putting together the investigations, warrants, etc have to continually navigate those hurdles and work within the system in order to make things happen. Believe me they don't always get their way despite the necessity or justification they lay out to those above them.

 

Jesse that's actually a point I meant to address. The NSA is focused on matters abroad, whereas the FBI is tasked with stateside threats. The NSA is only dealing with the data mining because it possesses the processing power and manpower to find needles in the haystack. The FBI, while understaffed and underfunded for such an endeavor, actually has an easier time getting their hands on the data flow than the NSA, yet the uproar is directed at the Fort. I think the public is intimidated by its secrecy and capabilities and so the trust isn't there. Its terminals are manned by servicemembers and incredibly talented and dedicated civilians who would never jeopardize the integrity and privacy of their neighbors and friends.

 

The mission is to root out those who love to take advantage of our freedoms and especially our rights to privacy when planning and executing mass murder of U.S. citizens. And you know what? We are really, really good at doing just that while preserving anonymity and abiding by the processes that protect all the rights we still enjoy.

[echo88 74]

Who stopped Richard Reid from detonating a shoe bomb on American Airlines flight 63 on 12/22/01?

 

Who stopped Abdul Farouk Abdulmutallab from detonating a bomb on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 above Detroit on 12/25/09?

 

I'll give you a hint....it wasn't the TSA or the NSA!!!

 

American citizens stopped the 2 largest airplane hijacking attempts since 9/11 not the TSA or the NSA.

 

What has the TSA done?

 

- 500 TSA agents have been fired or suspended for stealing from passenger luggage since the agency's creation in November 2001.

 

- In 2008 an investigative report by WTAE in Pittsburgh discovered that despite over 400 reports of baggage theft, about half of which the TSA reimbursed passengers for, not a single arrest had been made.

 

- In September 2012, ABC News interviewed former TSA agent Pythias Brown, who has admitted to stealing more than $800,000 worth of items during his employment with the agency. Brown stated that it was "very convenient to steal" and poor morale within the agency is what causes agents to steal from passengers.

 

- The TSA has also been criticized for not responding properly to theft and failing to reimburse passengers for stolen goods. For example, between 2011 and 2012, passengers at Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport reported $300,000 in property lost or damaged by the TSA. The agency only reimbursed $35,000 of those claims. Similar statistics were found at Jacksonville International Airport - passengers reported $22,000 worth of goods missing or damaged over the course of 15 months. The TSA only reimbursed $800.

 

- Two studies by a group of Cornell University researchers have found that strict airport security has the unintended consequence of increasing road fatalities, as would-be air travelers decide to drive and are exposed to the far greater risk of dying in a car accident. In 2005, the researchers looked at the immediate aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, and found that the change in passenger travel modes led to 242 added driving deaths per month. In all, they estimated that about 1,200 driving deaths could be attributed to the short-term effects of the attacks. The study attributes the change in traveler behavior to two factors: fear of terrorist attacks and the wish to avoid the inconvenience of strict security measures; no attempt is made to estimate separately the influence of each of these two factors.

 

- A 2007 study also noted that strict airport security hurts the airline industry; it was estimated that the 6% reduction in the number of passengers in the fourth quarter of 2002 cost the industry $1.1 billion in lost business.

 

- In 2007, a unencrypted computer hard drive containing Social Security numbers, bank data, and payroll information for about 100,000 employees was lost or stolen from TSA headquarters. Kip Hawley alerted TSA employees to the loss, and apologized for it. The agency asked the FBI to investigate. There were no reports that the data was later misused.

 

 

- In 2007, Christopher Soghoian, a blogger and security researcher, said that a TSA website was collecting private passenger information in an unsecured manner, exposing passengers to identity theft. The website allowed passengers to dispute their inclusion on the No Fly List. The TSA fixed the website several days after the press picked up the story. The U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform investigated the matter, and said the website had operated insecurely for more than four months, during which more than 247 people had submitted personal information. The report said the TSA manager who awarded the contract for creating the website was a high-school friend and former employee of the owner of the firm that received the contract.

 

- The TSA fired 28 agents and suspended 15 others after an investigation determined they failed to scan checked baggage for explosives.

 

- The TSA was accused of having performed poorly at the 2009 Presidential Inauguration viewing areas, which left thousands of ticket holders excluded from the event in overcrowded conditions, while those who had arrived before the checkpoints were in place avoided screening altogether.

 

- In 2012, a poll conducted by the Frequent Business Traveler organization found that 56% of frequent fliers were "not satisfied" with the job the TSA was doing. 57% rated the TSA as doing a "poor job," and 34% rated it "fair." Only 1% of those surveyed rated the agency's work as excellent.

 

So why should the American public pay $7.6 BILLION per year for an agency that is ineffective, violates citizens civil rights, and actually causes more security threats than it prevents?

 

It's called adapting to security postures and Al Qaeda is very good at it. Before Richard Reid tried to detonate a very clever bomb hidden in his shoe, do you recall having to take your shoes off at the airport? No. That's because they identified a weakness and exploited it. We changed our security and now your shoes are scanned. Before Richard, the TSA was focused on finding weapons (like box cutters) that could be used to forcibly take control of a plane. Adaptation.

 

Abdul Farouk took advantage of the fact that pat downs and metal detectors were inadequate in detecting bomb material woven into the fabric of undergarments. Smart and innovative for sure, but he certainly did not make it onboard because TSA failed. Our response? Body scanners and more invasive pat downs (for those who want to cry about the scan).

 

It's pretty damn near impossible to get anything past a body scanner so how many incidents since then? Zero. It was an expensive countermeasure, but effective.

 

I have news for you. Al Qaeda will find new ways to attack just like they always have. TSA still gets it done.

 

I'm glad you can roll off stats for ineffective TSA employees guilty of wrongdoing, but let me ask you this: When you initiate a new initiative like TSA, where do you find candidates for employment? Do you think college educated civilians want to sit at a body scanner or sift through luggage for a mediocre wage? Hell no. TSA has a budget just like every other government funded entity. When you factor in the number of employees, they cannot afford to pay them $60-70k per year. When you look at the budgets of other government programs, it's not really that bad. We spend more on keeping Mexicans out of our country. And good thing we have the coast guard to rescue boaters in distress and to pick up the occasional raft full of immigrants.

 

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) $10.3 Billion

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) $5.3 billion

Coast Guard $8.3 billion

Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) $4.5 billion

 

 

So what you get are high school grads who might otherwise be working construction....or food service....etc. I wish they could be forced to take their jobs seriously, but just like every other low paying job, its hard to muster motivation after complacency sets in.

 

I get what you are saying and I know TSA has its problems, but is the solution seriously to just get rid of it and make boarding a plane with a weapon feasible again? Now that we have body scanners in place, Al Qaeda is looking into weapons/bomb material whose properties might not be picked up by a scanner. It's a game of cat and mouse and it always will be. Just knowing that TSA has effectively served as a deterrent makes me feel safer flying...and I fly a lot.

 

The other day I was working with a company that has created a body scanner that does not give an outline of the body. It literally zeroes in on objects of interest, scans them and gives a shape to the person manning the system. For passengers who dont like having a silhouette of their body shown on the screen, they won't have anything to complain about anymore. The point I am making is that it is a process that will continue to improve. It needs more time and it needs the cooperation of law abiding citizens. Complainers who object just because they dont like TSA makes the agents hate their job even more than they already do.

 

The sad realization in all of this is that, by the time we perfect the art of detecting threats in the air, our adversaries will focus on a different mode of transportation....like trains.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1081584/canada-al-qaeda-train-terror-plot-foiled

 

Scary, but this isn't going to end.

Edited June 26, 2013 by echo88

[stdntDrvr 12]

If you're ever down in GA, echo...i'd like to buy you a beer for keeping us all safe. Not that a beer offsets the work you do, but I appreciate your hard work and dedication.

[echo88 74]

If you're ever down in GA, echo...i'd like to buy you a beer for keeping us all safe. Not that a beer offsets the work you do, but I appreciate your hard work and dedication.

 

The work is no sweat. I love what I do. Convincing others that it's necessary and effective is the hard part.

[stdntDrvr 12]

The work is no sweat. I love what I do. Convincing others that it's necessary and effective is the hard part.

 

It's one of those 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situations. in the days following 9/11 everyone complained about how easy it was getting through security leading up to that day...post 9/11 everyone complains that it takes too long to board a flight.

 

With the NSA, people complain that the gov't is watching their every move...when in fact, that isn't the case at all. Sure, things at some point could get out of hand...but right now the policies are working and the citizens don't have to worry about being watched. There are checks in place to make sure that the system is not being abused, and I'm sure we'll all know once that starts...because let's face it, people love attention and are unwilling to keep their mouths shut if someone offers them enough money.

[piratey 6]

This'll end in us getting the Emmanuel Goldstein treatment =/

 

The question we need to ask ourselves is freedom the price for freedom? We're turning into a nanny state and people are just accepting it...

[Rockets Revenge 0]

It's called adapting to security postures and Al Qaeda is very good at it. Before Richard Reid tried to detonate a very clever bomb hidden in his shoe, do you recall having to take your shoes off at the airport? No. That's because they identified a weakness and exploited it. We changed our security and now your shoes are scanned. Before Richard, the TSA was focused on finding weapons (like box cutters) that could be used to forcibly take control of a plane. Adaptation.

 

Abdul Farouk took advantage of the fact that pat downs and metal detectors were inadequate in detecting bomb material woven into the fabric of undergarments. Smart and innovative for sure, but he certainly did not make it onboard because TSA failed. Our response? Body scanners and more invasive pat downs (for those who want to cry about the scan).

 

I commend your service (and anyone else in public service and/or general public security for that matter) to our country and am excited that you are energetic about and enjoy your job. I agree with the general idea of the TSA and NSA I just don't believe they are carried out or administered very effectively (like many governemnt run programs/organizations/agencies) and tend to step all over our constitution and bill of rights in order to carry out what the powers that be define as "protecting the American public".

 

The problem with being reactive is that the intial threat is not removed. If the TSA and NSA were a deterrent then Al Qaeda and others would stop trying and we know that hasn't happened in the 10+ years of TSA & NSA existence.

 

So my question still remains unanswered...

 

So why should the American public pay $7.6 BILLION per year for an agency that is ineffective' date=' violates citizens civil rights, and actually causes more security threats than it prevents?[/quote']

 

Based on the number and severity of the issues I previously outlined it is painfully obvious to even the most casual observer that the TSA causes more problems than they prevent. Apparently your desk is in the middle of the trees and you can't see the forest!!

Edited June 26, 2013 by Rocket's Revenge

[echo88 74]

I commend your service (and anyone else in public service and/or general public security for that matter) to our country and am excited that you are energetic about and enjoy your job. I agree with the general idea of the TSA and NSA I just don't believe they are carried out or administered very effectively (like many governemnt run programs/organizations/agencies) and tend to step all over our constitution and bill of rights in order to carry out what the powers that be define as "protecting the American public".

 

The problem with being reactive is that the intial threat is not removed. If the TSA and NSA were a deterrent then Al Qaeda and others would stop trying and we know that hasn't happened in the 10+ years of TSA & NSA existence.

 

So my question still remains unanswered...

 

 

 

Based on the number and severity of the issues I previously outlined it is painfully obvious to even the most casual observer that the TSA causes more problems than they prevent. Apparently your desk is in the middle of the trees and you can't see the forest!!

 

Al Qaeda stop trying? Lol that's never going to happen and that isn't the goal of TSA. Here's the goal: When months and months of planning has gone into a detailed and elaborate attack, are they going to hinge the potential for failure on the risk of getting additional screening? Probably not. And that is success. TSA has to be reactive because you can never fully predict/eliminate all ways to attack us. What I mean is, after 9/11 we had no reason to escalate into a million dollar full body scanner because bombs woven into underwear and shoes were an unforeseen threat. We were trying to eliminate weapons like box cutters aboard aircraft. Body scanners factor a LOT of the 7.6 billion dollars you said were a waste and at the time there was no reason to shoot flies with a rocket launcher. It's easy to say "we should have seen that coming" after the fact.....

 

I can still observe TSA procedures and find a dozen ways to get something through by capitalizing on areas where they're screwed. Baby formula? Yeah, you can't ever stop allowing that on flights. Kids and old people dont have to take their shoes off anymore because of public outcry? Well that's easy. You force a family with members who fit the bill to do your bidding for you---wittingly or unwittingly. It sucks, but there are still ways to attack us that we already know about. The question is whether or not AQ can afford to sink the money and time into a plot that could randomly be foiled by TSA.....

Edited June 26, 2013 by echo88

[ND3 0]

It's one of those 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situations. in the days following 9/11 everyone complained about how easy it was getting through security leading up to that day...post 9/11 everyone complains that it takes too long to board a flight.

 

With the NSA, people complain that the gov't is watching their every move...when in fact, that isn't the case at all. Sure, things at some point could get out of hand...but right now the policies are working and the citizens don't have to worry about being watched. There are checks in place to make sure that the system is not being abused, and I'm sure we'll all know once that starts...because let's face it, people love attention and are unwilling to keep their mouths shut if someone offers them enough money.

 

As I posted before (with sources), there are not checks in place. The FISA courts virtually never turn a request from the NSA.

 

The system IS being abused, and Snowden showed that.

 

People are standing by and watching as we head towards an Orwellian surveillance state. The terrorists have won. We live in fear.

 

I've said my peace on the topic and I'm done debating. All I have left to contribute is to rehash what I've already said.

 

This is a blatant misuse of power and money. It completely disregards the Constitution of the United States and it is patently illegal. If we can't trust the US government to follow their own laws, their own Constitution, what can we trust them to do?