NIL and Portal ruining College football

[AnTostal 766]

40 minutes ago, ndfanatic78 said:

No parent can sign a contract on behalf of an 18 year old. The parent can sign what ever they want the kid is not beholden to that. The kid can also sue. As far as a parent in another state trying to sign a contract with a kid living with th other parent that couldn’t happen because the parent the kid lives with has custody. If it’s shared custody both parents have to consent. Last at no time was it against any rules for boosters to contact kids. It was illegal for them to pay them, which still happened all the time.

My comment was about a parent signing a contract for a child under the age of 18.

You seem to have more knowledge than me regarding custody.  Custodial battles are common.  Whether it pertains to living in different or the same state, there are countless issues that end up in court all the time.  My point really is that it is predictable that, without modification of the current state of NIL, one parent may believe she can sign an NIL arrangement for a 16 year-old that the other parent contests.  I don't know how that would work.  If both parents have to sign in that case, it's still, to me, unclear.  And even if there's no custody issue, will both parents have to sign a contract for a 16 year-old NIL deal?  It seems to me we are still just scratching the surface of all of this.

[ndfanatic78 285]

1 hour ago, AnTostal said:

My comment was about a parent signing a contract for a child under the age of 18.

You seem to have more knowledge than me regarding custody.  Custodial battles are common.  Whether it pertains to living in different or the same state, there are countless issues that end up in court all the time.  My point really is that it is predictable that, without modification of the current state of NIL, one parent may believe she can sign an NIL arrangement for a 16 year-old that the other parent contests.  I don't know how that would work.  If both parents have to sign in that case, it's still, to me, unclear.  And even if there's no custody issue, will both parents have to sign a contract for a 16 year-old NIL deal?  It seems to me we are still just scratching the surface of all of this.

The kid still has to agree to it and sign on as well. A parent can’t just sign a contract without the child’s agreement and signature also. I am guessing you are saying NIL of a high school player not a college player because 90% of college kids are 18 by the time they get to college. Yes both parents would have to sign ,if it is a shared custody situation, and the child would also have to sign.
 

This would all fall under contract laws that already exist. Also you are now talking about high school eligibility which has nothing to do with the NCAA. That would fall under state laws and state sports governance bodies. None of which has anything to do with the NCAA.

Edited January 6, 2022 by ndfanatic78

[soulpatch 149]

19 hours ago, NDhoosier said:

same reason why I, and many others, have severely reduced our intake of watching NFL. They see it as a business too much and your favorite player on your favorite team doesnt stay for more than 3 years.

I value different things than the people who say "let the kids get a piece of the pie." I thought they already got a good deal and this NIL stuff is already getting out of hand with A&M disregarding the rules and intent of NIL. Schools are not allowed to facilitate the NIL deals, but they spent $30million to INCENTIVIZE recruits to go to A&M....

No surprise to you that I'm in the piece of the pie camp but I think some of my other points got lost in my frustration/translation, so I'll try to re-raise them here in the hopes of moving that part of the dialogue forward.

It's no secret that the overwhelming majority of programs (and high schools) actively discourage players from focusing on their education in order to remove distractions. Additionally, it's generally accepted that at least CFB and CBB blue chips have been getting paid at least as far back as the '70's (and these payments drive where they go, including transfers). So, in light of that, what part of this feels like a change to you? Is it that it's more overt? Is it that the increase in financially-driven mobility will feel like free-agency and you find contending with that as part of the CFB experience impalatable? 

 

[EddieAngel 508]

15 minutes ago, soulpatch said:

No surprise to you that I'm in the piece of the pie camp but I think some of my other points got lost in my frustration/translation, so I'll try to re-raise them here in the hopes of moving that part of the dialogue forward.

It's no secret that the overwhelming majority of programs (and high schools) actively discourage players from focusing on their education in order to remove distractions. Additionally, it's generally accepted that at least CFB and CBB blue chips have been getting paid at least as far back as the '70's (and these payments drive where they go, including transfers). So, in light of that, what part of this feels like a change to you? Is it that it's more overt? Is it that the increase in financially-driven mobility will feel like free-agency and you find contending with that as part of the CFB experience impalatable? 

 

I guess when you get down to it, the only change is that schools don't have to be as circumspect so now it is more competitive to bribe recruits than it use to be. The real grudge I think we all have is that ND isn't likely to be competitive in this market just because ND isn't like that. Maybe other people are into the nuts and bolts of the purity of the institution of collegiate sports, but as for me, I am just agitated because I know this will allow schools that are football-first to be even more unbeatable for ND.

If ND boosters got together and pulled down the number one recruiting class for ND with 5 or 6 5 stars I am pretty sure the temperature of this board will be different.

Maybe not.

[ndfanatic78 285]

3 hours ago, EddieAngel said:

I guess when you get down to it, the only change is that schools don't have to be as circumspect so now it is more competitive to bribe recruits than it use to be. The real grudge I think we all have is that ND isn't likely to be competitive in this market just because ND isn't like that. Maybe other people are into the nuts and bolts of the purity of the institution of collegiate sports, but as for me, I am just agitated because I know this will allow schools that are football-first to be even more unbeatable for ND.

If ND boosters got together and pulled down the number one recruiting class for ND with 5 or 6 5 stars I am pretty sure the temperature of this board will be different.

Maybe not.

I do believe you will see ND boosters do exactly that. Especially the ones that are frustrated with how the administration has ham strung the athletics department. 

 

If a kid can get into ND and succeed on both the field and in the classroom ND should not be losing that kid due to lack of resources. The only reason ND should lose that kid is because all things equal he did not like ND. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by ndfanatic78

[Pregame 291]

2 hours ago, AnTostal said:

My comment was about a parent signing a contract for a child under the age of 18.

You seem to have more knowledge than me regarding custody.  Custodial battles are common.  Whether it pertains to living in different or the same state, there are countless issues that end up in court all the time.  My point really is that it is predictable that, without modification of the current state of NIL, one parent may believe she can sign an NIL arrangement for a 16 year-old that the other parent contests.  I don't know how that would work.  If both parents have to sign in that case, it's still, to me, unclear.  And even if there's no custody issue, will both parents have to sign a contract for a 16 year-old NIL deal?  It seems to me we are still just scratching the surface of all of this.

These issues are commonplace in every arena involving minors-guardians and contracts. It's not even new to CFB as there have been issues with parents not wanting their kid to sign somewhere and refusing to endorse their letters of intent (essentially, commitment papers that schools receive on signing day). So these issues are far from novel, but ya when there's any involvement with family court, it's usually messy. 

[soulpatch 149]

1 hour ago, EddieAngel said:

The real grudge I think we all have is that ND isn't likely to be competitive in this market just because ND isn't like that. Maybe other people are into the nuts and bolts of the purity of the institution of collegiate sports, but as for me, I am just agitated because I know this will allow schools that are football-first to be even more unbeatable for ND.

If ND boosters got together and pulled down the number one recruiting class for ND with 5 or 6 5 stars I am pretty sure the temperature of this board will be different.

Maybe not.

But, to my untrained/underinformed eye, this makes it easier for ND to compete here since it's now 'legal' for a player to get money based on their NIL. We have a contract with NBC, all on our own, for heaven's sake. As I mentioned in another thread, we already have booster money funneling directly to coaches via sponsorship. Now that we can do it and be above board, it reads to me our only limitation is our imagination. I mean, how hard can it be to for ND's next superstar QB to be seen as a marketing goldmine? I don't think you should have to look too far to find somebody/company ready to jump at the chance to be associated with that. 
This is where I'm coming from when I say if ND loses in the frontier, it will be for lack of trying, not lack of opportunity/resources.

[SDIrishFan 607]

31 minutes ago, soulpatch said:

But, to my untrained/underinformed eye, this makes it easier for ND to compete here since it's now 'legal' for a player to get money based on their NIL. We have a contract with NBC, all on our own, for heaven's sake. As I mentioned in another thread, we already have booster money funneling directly to coaches via sponsorship. Now that we can do it and be above board, it reads to me our only limitation is our imagination. I mean, how hard can it be to for ND's next superstar QB to be seen as a marketing goldmine? I don't think you should have to look too far to find somebody/company ready to jump at the chance to be associated with that. 
This is where I'm coming from when I say if ND loses in the frontier, it will be for lack of trying, not lack of opportunity/resources.

And I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried about ND not trying that hard. Just doing the basic stuff, but nothing to the level of A&M. So again, we’ll be fighting an uphill battle for elite recruits.

[jbrown_9999 1,023]

1 hour ago, SDIrishFan said:

And I’ll be honest, I’m a little worried about ND not trying that hard. Just doing the basic stuff, but nothing to the level of A&M. So again, we’ll be fighting an uphill battle for elite recruits.

Supposedly, per something I saw somewhere but cannot remember, Kyle Hamilton was getting $1.5 million in NIL money and ND made a point of mentioning that to recruits

Edited January 6, 2022 by jbrown_9999

[nd1989 209]

2 hours ago, soulpatch said:

But, to my untrained/underinformed eye, this makes it easier for ND to compete here since it's now 'legal' for a player to get money based on their NIL. We have a contract with NBC, all on our own, for heaven's sake. As I mentioned in another thread, we already have booster money funneling directly to coaches via sponsorship. Now that we can do it and be above board, it reads to me our only limitation is our imagination. I mean, how hard can it be to for ND's next superstar QB to be seen as a marketing goldmine? I don't think you should have to look too far to find somebody/company ready to jump at the chance to be associated with that. 
This is where I'm coming from when I say if ND loses in the frontier, it will be for lack of trying, not lack of opportunity/resources.

This was my point as well.  I think ND, MI, MSU, etc all benefit because now its legal to provide funds to players when in the past it was only a few teams that were doing it (nameless, but probably the likes of Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc).  So now we should be able to compete with these teams to get the top players; we just need to have a competitive NIL program.

[Tailgate Approved 248]

NIL has hijacked a couple of threads. I figured I'd try to steer the conversation back towards this thread with a bump.

[Tailgate Approved 248]

Point of discussion:

There are 28 new head coaches in FBS (so far). That's a turnover of about 21.5%.

That's much more than the (very roughly) 10-12% of FBS athletes in the transfer portal.

[NDhoosier 1,232]

1 hour ago, Tailgate Approved said:

Point of discussion:

There are 28 new head coaches in FBS (so far). That's a turnover of about 21.5%.

That's much more than the (very roughly) 10-12% of FBS athletes in the transfer portal.

I dont mind the transfer rule at all for the "student athletes."

Here is an interesting article that I learned quite a bit from, love the statistics broken down.
https://footballscoop.com/news/ohio-state-nil-earnings

[Tailgate Approved 248]

17 minutes ago, NDhoosier said:

I dont mind the transfer rule at all for the "student athletes."

Here is an interesting article that I learned quite a bit from, love the statistics broken down.
https://footballscoop.com/news/ohio-state-nil-earnings

Do you use the quotes around student athlete ironically? Are they any less student-athletes now than they used to be? If so, how?

Professional athletes are paid by the team. The schools refuse to pay them. So, they're not professionals.

These kids are basically influencers. The Dude Perfect guys made money hitting trick shots on YouTube while going to Texas A&M. Were they "students" because of that?

[USAFA03_HUGENDFAN 242]

1 hour ago, Tailgate Approved said:

Do you use the quotes around student athlete ironically? Are they any less student-athletes now than they used to be? If so, how?

Professional athletes are paid by the team. The schools refuse to pay them. So, they're not professionals.

These kids are basically influencers. The Dude Perfect guys made money hitting trick shots on YouTube while going to Texas A&M. Were they "students" because of that?

I would use quotes for the Cardale Jones types who didn’t go to “x” academic institution to “play school” and those institutions who create made up academic programs to support those types of athletes who couldn’t get into or through higher levels of education if they were not there playing a sport.  Does this apply to all student athletes?  Certainly not. However, it does apply to a larger percentage of “student athletes” in revenue generating sports (football and basketball).  I knew some extremely intelligent football players at the Academy but there were plenty of players who would self admit that they never would have gotten in if they didn’t play football or basketball and struggled to get through despite the tutors and help provided to them. 

[Pregame 291]

1 hour ago, USAFA03_HUGENDFAN said:

I would use quotes for the Cardale Jones types who didn’t go to “x” academic institution to “play school” and those institutions who create made up academic programs to support those types of athletes who couldn’t get into or through higher levels of education if they were not there playing a sport.  Does this apply to all student athletes?  Certainly not. However, it does apply to a larger percentage of “student athletes” in revenue generating sports (football and basketball).  I knew some extremely intelligent football players at the Academy but there were plenty of players who would self admit that they never would have gotten in if they didn’t play football or basketball and struggled to get through despite the tutors and help provided to them. 

While this has nothing to do with NIL, I personally think its amazing that kids with no shot at graduating from a college with ANY degree are able to leverage their athletic abilities into a college graduation and a diploma. I know people who likewise wouldn't have gotten into ND in my class had they not been the children of prominent donors, alums, professors, etc. Did I, or anyone in their class, ever give a shit how or why they got to ND? No, not really and their piece of paper says the same thing my piece of paper says at the end of 4 yrs. Life is about taking advantage of your advantage, whatever that may be, and athletes really are no different (and probably more deserving of a shot than some others). 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Pregame

[NDhoosier 1,232]

3 hours ago, Tailgate Approved said:

Do you use the quotes around student athlete ironically? Are they any less student-athletes now than they used to be? If so, how?

Professional athletes are paid by the team. The schools refuse to pay them. So, they're not professionals.

These kids are basically influencers. The Dude Perfect guys made money hitting trick shots on YouTube while going to Texas A&M. Were they "students" because of that?

Yes I did, and I still stand by it...

[Tailgate Approved 248]

1 hour ago, NDhoosier said:

Yes I did, and I still stand by it...

I wasn't asking with malice. I was trying to understand your perspective. 

[SDIrishFan 607]

1 hour ago, NDhoosier said:

Yes I did, and I still stand by it...

I think he missed the previous discussion and your stance on student athletes.

[Blammm 29]

15 hours ago, Pregame said:

I know people who likewise wouldn't have gotten into ND in my class had they not been the children of prominent donors, alums, professors, etc. Did I, or anyone in their class, ever give a shit how or why they got to ND? 

Did you pay them a salary to be your classmate?  Because that's where we are headed.

I don't particularly care if the athletics department subsidizes the rest of the university, but we shouldn't be jacking tuition to subsidize the athletics department.  Revenue from 6-7 home football games a year isn't going to stretch far enough to satisfy the creeping costs.  

Edited January 26, 2022 by Blammm