Vegas Shooting

[Soko 128]

People want guns banned. Would they feel better if he had blown himself up or driven a truck into the crowd instead? That still happens in places with no guns. Guns aren't the problem. The societal influences that allows people to think shooting up a bunch of people is somehow OK is the problem.

 

There are something like 310,000,000 guns in America. There were under 10,000 homicides involving a gun last year. That is a lot, but compared to how many guns there are, clearly the guns aren't the issue. It is the people with the guns that are the issue.

 

This is the biggest straw man consistently brought up when this topic is evoked. People do not call for guns to banned - this is the gun lobby line that they are coming for your guns. This is bull **** and nobody ever, ever claims this to be fact. The horse has long bolted regarding guns in America and the 2nd amendment is air tight. This was not a terrorist incident like the items you mentioned above, more a domestic tragedy as someone was able to buy lethal weapons legally and kill or injure over 500 people in one go. 500+ injuries.

 

However it would be nice if we could have some common sense regarding who can buy a gun, what type of gun they can buy and when. There was a bill due in congress this week that was going to debate allowing silencers on your weapons ffs. How is this advancing society or pleasure? I put assault rifles in the same category as gun rights completely jumping the shark but the silencers takes the biscuit.

 

The 2nd amendment has been hijacked the NRA spent almost $30 million on adverts to get Donald Trump elected. Putting aside the political context of those adds you are looking at an organisation that has an enormous amount of clout shaping the national debate regarding guns when they have an extremely vested interest in the outcome. They should be ignored and politicians have some backbone for a change and stand up for what their constituents are asking for.

 

Gun control won't stop gun deaths or possibly even massacres like this but it also won't impinge your right to bear arms and defend yourself. There is a middle ground here somewhere but like everything else in America is might as well be on Mars for the likelihood we are going to find it.

[ndomer4 532]

It is the people with the guns that are the issue.

 

So why do they have unconstrained access to buy the guns then?

[corysold 0]

Columbine, Vegas, Sandy Hook, Orlando, etc... not inner city, not broken families

 

Also a very small percentage of the total gun deaths.

[corysold 0]

So why do they have unconstrained access to buy the guns then?

 

They don't. You can't just walk into a gun store and buy a gun.

 

Whether the constraints in place are enough is a different question. But again, there are 10's of millions of gun owners in America. There are maybe a couple dozen of cases of mass shootings.

 

I'd agree there doesn't necessarily need to be a situation where large magazines are available, or "assault" weapons, or things like that.

 

I just think if someone really wants to try and kill a bunch of people, they are going to find a way to do it, whether there is an available gun that is capable of it or not.

 

I also think if you try to kill hundreds of people, you are a terrorist. You don't have to be a muslim or a foreign citizen to be a terrorist.

[coltssb 1,044]

Co-worker and her friends were having a bachelorette party and at this thing. She just came back to work today. Just listening to her story is surreal. All her friends were safe but she said you could t tell where the shooter was and if he was coming at them or not. Prayers to Vegas. Wow.

[stdntDrvr 12]

This is the biggest straw man consistently brought up when this topic is evoked. People do not call for guns to banned - this is the gun lobby line that they are coming for your guns. This is bull **** and nobody ever, ever claims this to be fact. The horse has long bolted regarding guns in America and the 2nd amendment is air tight. This was not a terrorist incident like the items you mentioned above, more a domestic tragedy as someone was able to buy lethal weapons legally and kill or injure over 500 people in one go. 500+ injuries.

 

However it would be nice if we could have some common sense regarding who can buy a gun, what type of gun they can buy and when. There was a bill due in congress this week that was going to debate allowing silencers on your weapons ffs. How is this advancing society or pleasure? I put assault rifles in the same category as gun rights completely jumping the shark but the silencers takes the biscuit.

 

The 2nd amendment has been hijacked the NRA spent almost $30 million on adverts to get Donald Trump elected. Putting aside the political context of those adds you are looking at an organisation that has an enormous amount of clout shaping the national debate regarding guns when they have an extremely vested interest in the outcome. They should be ignored and politicians have some backbone for a change and stand up for what their constituents are asking for.

 

Gun control won't stop gun deaths or possibly even massacres like this but it also won't impinge your right to bear arms and defend yourself. There is a middle ground here somewhere but like everything else in America is might as well be on Mars for the likelihood we are going to find it.

 

Honestly, how quiet do you think a suppressed gun is? Even when firing suppressed you still need to wear hearing protection. A suppressed .22 using subsonic ammunition is 115 decibels, which is just as loud as a police siren and slightly louder than a jackhammer. Suppressors are not going to allow people to go around killing others unnoticed like many people may believe. Real life =/= Hollywood.

 

And to correct my original post, it was just mentioned on the news that the gunman in LV used a bump stock, which I believe should be illegal as you can simulate automatic fire with one. But, that's just my opinion. Some people enjoy them...I see them as a waste of ammunition and a way to ruin a nice rifle.

[Synoptico 334]

Honestly, how quiet do you think a suppressed gun is? Even when firing suppressed you still need to wear hearing protection. A suppressed .22 using subsonic ammunition is 115 decibels, which is just as loud as a police siren and slightly louder than a jackhammer. Suppressors are not going to allow people to go around killing others unnoticed like many people may believe. Real life =/= Hollywood.

 

And to correct my original post, it was just mentioned on the news that the gunman in LV used a bump stock, which I believe should be illegal as you can simulate automatic fire with one. But, that's just my opinion. Some people enjoy them...I see them as a waste of ammunition and a way to ruin a nice rifle.

 

What is a bump stock?

[Synoptico 334]

Also a very small percentage of the total gun deaths.

 

Well most are suicide.

 

My point is that generalizing that this is an inner city issue is false

[Pregame 291]

Whether the constraints in place are enough is a different question. But again, there are 10's of millions of gun owners in America. There are maybe a couple dozen of cases of mass shootings.

A mass shooting is defined as a shooting incident involving 4 or more victims with no "cooling down" period or a shooting involving "multiple victims."

 

There is 1 mass shooting a day in America.

 

If you're the person who is surprised by a shooting in America then you are a f*cking idiot and you need to get your head out of your ***. It happens often, there's absolutely zero reason anyone should be surprised.

 

That being said, I am against the banning of all weapons in America. The problem lies with the clowns who think you need a fully automatic weapon, large capacity magazines, suppressors, hollow point or FMJ bullets. Home protection and hunting do not require these things. As for militia purposes and protecting yourself from the government, tell me how that cache of "totally rad" AR 15s holds up against a drone strike haha.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Pregame

[stdntDrvr 12]

What is a bump stock?

 

It is a stock that you can put on a semi-auto AR-15 that uses the recoil to slide the rifle back into the stock and initiate another trigger pull without the need of moving your trigger finger. There are tons of youtube videos out there of people firing with them...they are a complete waste, imo.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a28479/vegas-shooter-bump-stock/

[Soko 128]

They don't. You can't just walk into a gun store and buy a gun.

 

Whether the constraints in place are enough is a different question. But again, there are 10's of millions of gun owners in America. There are maybe a couple dozen of cases of mass shootings.

 

I'd agree there doesn't necessarily need to be a situation where large magazines are available, or "assault" weapons, or things like that.

 

I just think if someone really wants to try and kill a bunch of people, they are going to find a way to do it, whether there is an available gun that is capable of it or not.

 

I also think if you try to kill hundreds of people, you are a terrorist. You don't have to be a muslim or a foreign citizen to be a terrorist.

 

I think most people are on the same page here for once. There is not a clamour or never will be a push for a ban on guns but these guns are so over the top it is a joke.

 

How can you legally sell these items which can turn the semi-auto AR-15 into a fully automatic weapon? I mean when are people going to draw the line and say this is just ridiculous.

[corysold 0]

Well most are suicide.

 

My point is that generalizing that this is an inner city issue is false

 

I'll do some more research into it. I admit my living close to Chicago could be a negative bias.

[Soko 128]

Honestly, how quiet do you think a suppressed gun is? Even when firing suppressed you still need to wear hearing protection. A suppressed .22 using subsonic ammunition is 115 decibels, which is just as loud as a police siren and slightly louder than a jackhammer. Suppressors are not going to allow people to go around killing others unnoticed like many people may believe. Real life =/= Hollywood.

 

And to correct my original post, it was just mentioned on the news that the gunman in LV used a bump stock, which I believe should be illegal as you can simulate automatic fire with one. But, that's just my opinion. Some people enjoy them...I see them as a waste of ammunition and a way to ruin a nice rifle.

 

The same bill also would deregulate the sale of armour piercing bullets. Please educate me as to how the **** either of these things do anything positive other than advance sales for munitions suppliers?

[corysold 0]

A mass shooting is defined as a shooting incident involving 4 or more victims with no "cooling down" period or a shooting involving "multiple victims."

 

There is 1 mass shooting a day in America.

 

If you're the person who is surprised by a shooting in America then you are a f*cking idiot and you need to get your head out of your ***. It happens often, there's absolutely zero reason anyone should be surprised.

 

That being said, I am against the banning of all weapons in America. The problem lies with the clowns who think you need a fully automatic weapon, large capacity magazines, suppressors, hollow point or FMJ bullets. Home protection and hunting do not require these things. As for militia purposes and protecting yourself from the government, tell me how that cache of "totally rad" AR 15s holds up against a drone strike haha.

 

But you have to consider there is a difference between a mass shooting that can be done with a few handguns and one that needs automatic weapons.

 

Clearly there are too many shootings in America. I just don't really think it is the guns that are the problem, it's the society/culture we've created.

[LasVegasIrish 0]

Vegas is shook. I knew upwards of about 200 people in attendance, and as I mentioned I was supposed to be there as well. Someone I know was killed and a few others seriously injured.

 

I ask for your thoughts and prayers. This board is about the only thing that can keep my mind off of it right now.

[stdntDrvr 12]

The same bill also would deregulate the sale of armour piercing bullets. Please educate me as to how the **** either of these things do anything positive other than advance sales for munitions suppliers?

 

Where do you get your news? It prevents future elected officials from reclassify ammunition as 'armor piercing' so that no one can take away what is currently available. That was a fear during the Obama administration. They were attempting to reclassify M855 rounds as armor piercing, thus making them illegal to own or sell by private individuals. There was a huge run on that ammo during that time. The fear is that if they can reclassify one type of ammunition, they can reclassify any which would be an end-around of a gun ban. No ammo, no guns.

[stdntDrvr 12]

A mass shooting is defined as a shooting incident involving 4 or more victims with no "cooling down" period or a shooting involving "multiple victims."

 

There is 1 mass shooting a day in America.

 

If you're the person who is surprised by a shooting in America then you are a f*cking idiot and you need to get your head out of your ***. It happens often, there's absolutely zero reason anyone should be surprised.

 

That being said, I am against the banning of all weapons in America. The problem lies with the clowns who think you need a fully automatic weapon, large capacity magazines, suppressors, hollow point or FMJ bullets. Home protection and hunting do not require these things. As for militia purposes and protecting yourself from the government, tell me how that cache of "totally rad" AR 15s holds up against a drone strike haha.

 

Disagree with what's in bold. I much prefer a hollow point for home protection. The round is less likely to pierce an intruder, go through a wall and hit one of my children. A standard 'practice round' does not slow down enough in this situation and could injure or kill one of them.

 

As far as a suppressor is concerned for home protection...again, have you ever fired a gun in an enclosed space? Yeah, it's freaking LOUD. A suppressor will limit the noise some (not as much as people think) so that you can communicate with your family if you ever had the need to discharge a weapon inside your home.

[ndomer4 532]

Sorry but your whole arguments sound idiotic to me. I've never felt like I needed a gun for home protection because I'm not worried about Someone breaking into my house with a gun. It's sad cause the gun industry brings so much money that they would never ban or have limits.

 

I'm not sure how you guys can be so oblivious to the facts, it's clear that you guys have a problem with guns. Money's more important though and your gonna continue to have massive amounts of gun deaths because guns were made to kill people.

[echo88 74]

Sorry but your whole arguments sound idiotic to me. I've never felt like I needed a gun for home protection because I'm not worried about Someone breaking into my house with a gun. It's sad cause the gun industry brings so much money that they would never ban or have limits.

 

I'm not sure how you guys can be so oblivious to the facts, it's clear that you guys have a problem with guns. Money's more important though and your gonna continue to have massive amounts of gun deaths because guns were made to kill people.

 

...said the Canadian from Winnipeg....

[ndomer4 532]

...said the Canadian from Winnipeg....

 

My point exactly...

 

Corys a big stats guy, go look at the stats compared to some of the countries with very strict gun laws.