Religious Beliefs Thread

[S.B.IRISH 0]

As a believer in Jesus Christ people find it odd when I tell them that I don't believe in religion. Religion is a man made set of rules, regulations, obligations and organized system of beliefs that tells you how many times a day to pray or how to dress when none of those things will ultimately get you into heaven. No, Religion will never be able to give you eternal salvation but RELATIONSHIP will. Your personal relationship with Jesus is the only thing that can save you from spending eternity in hell. People can have religion all they want but if they don't have a faith in Jesus that impacts their behavior then it's all for not. I'm not saying everyone has to be perfect but at least make the attempt to live up to God's standard and when you miss the mark repent for your sins and continue down the narrow path that leads to eternal life that only few will follow. So many people proclaim God with their mouth but turn around and deny him with their lifestyle. Your faith in God must produce a desire in your heart to impact your behavior. A real relationship with Jesus will cause you to turn from the flesh and live in the spirit, allowing you to love God the way he wants to be loved.

[OklahomaIrish 0]

You can trace all religions back to man, except for one religion that traces it origin to God (Jesus Christ). Jesus gave us the Church that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. He says when you hear the CHURCH you hear me. He gave to ST. Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Over 200 people that have followed the teachings of Jesus Christ in his Church are called incorruptibles. Their dead bodies defy science as some of them are as old as 1900 years but they don't decay.

 

And then what does Jesus say?? "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat my body and drink my blood you do not have my life within you. For my body is real food and my blood is real drink, and whosoever eats my body and drinks my blood has eternal life."

 

The book of John has plenty more to say about eating his body and drinking his blood. In fact John 6.66 is dedicated to those who do not believe in this. It is the only time 666 appears in bible and verse (Jesus was pretty smart dude)

 

Many Eucharistic miracles have happened to show that the host literally becomes Human flesh. One of the greatest miracles is the miracle at Lanciano where the host to this day is living human heart tissue with the blood type of Jesus Christ found on the Shroud of Turin. The secular scientists that studied this miracle became believers. Scripture says their is one lord,one faith, and one baptism. The Rock upon which this God-Man built His Church is St. Peter. His body is literally found in the catacombs under St. Peters Basilica.

[ELDER06 248]

With the almost certainty that this thread will turn into a $hitshow sooner rather than later (meaning I'll have to be the one who locks and deletes it), I proceed anyway.

 

Here's the deal, for about the past year or two, I've really struggled with the idea of religion, God, and what I believe and don't believe. I've done lots of thinking, reading and listening from all sorts of people, experts, Joe Blows and the like and so far have really only ruled one thing out (I don't believe the literal interpretation of the bible).

 

So, what I'm asking, if you're willing, is to share what you believe in and why. I'm not interested in you telling me what I, or anyone else, should believe in. I'm not interested in arguing over who's right or who's wrong. I'm not interested in started a personal attack thread and if that's what it turns into I'll lock it.

 

Ready, go.

 

Well I went to Catholic grade school, high school, and college... but I am not religious. I believe in evolution, but not for one moment do I believe it means god isn't real. All of this had to come from something unknown, bigger than us. I think the Atheist argument of trying to "prove" god exists is short-sighted. I believe it is a good thing when people use the concept of god and religion to better themselves (AAA, quitting drugs,etc.) However, when you have people using it as a reason to hate and kill, that's what I have a problem with. I think taking a book literally, that was written thousands of years ago by unknown people is a silly way to model your human beliefs.

[ELDER06 248]

As a believer in Jesus Christ people find it odd when I tell them that I don't believe in religion. Religion is a man made set of rules, regulations, obligations and organized system of beliefs that tells you how many times a day to pray or how to dress when none of those things will ultimately get you into heaven. No, Religion will never be able to give you eternal salvation but RELATIONSHIP will. Your personal relationship with Jesus is the only thing that can save you from spending eternity in hell. People can have religion all they want but if they don't have a faith in Jesus that impacts their behavior then it's all for not. I'm not saying everyone has to be perfect but at least make the attempt to live up to God's standard and when you miss the mark repent for your sins and continue down the narrow path that leads to eternal life that only few will follow. So many people proclaim God with their mouth but turn around and deny him with their lifestyle. Your faith in God must produce a desire in your heart to impact your behavior. A real relationship with Jesus will cause you to turn from the flesh and live in the spirit, allowing you to love God the way he wants to be loved.

 

I agree. Jesus' teachings boiled down to loving your fellow man and living your life as a good human being. I went to Catholic school my whole life, but haven't been to mass in close to a decade. There are stances within the church I do not agree with, but I do not live my life void of morals.

[OklahomaIrish 0]

If we don't accept the Bible then we may go in many different directions. If we do accept the Bible it tells us in Timothy that...The pillar and foundation of truth is the CHURCH. Again, if you don't accept the Bible as the word of God then you don't have to accept this.

[S.B.IRISH 0]

The thing that we have remember about God's word is that it is never changing, the only thing that has changed is our response to it. Yes the Bible was written 2000 yrs ago not just for the people back then but for everyone who would ever live until the time of Jesus' return. We are the ones that want to change the word to fit us instead of changing ourselves to fit the word. Saying that God's word isn't for today is basically saying that God didn't know that times were going to change and he should have known to publish an updated Bible. And that's a dangerous stance to take with you to judgement day.

[mcgov12 1,237]

I grew up in a Catholic household, attended Catholic school up to 6th grade and again in college, involved in a ton of activities associated with the church growing up, mom worked there as a secretary for years, all of that etc. Over the last probably 10-15 years I've pretty much disassociated with the Catholic Church and really still wrestle with some beliefs and what not. I watched as a priest we knew for almost 20 years call out an older brother for not using church envelopes, even though he also said at the same time he saw him donating every week....an this was in from of about 30 people. Going to a Catholic college and listening to priests talk as if its 50 years ago got old fast. I had a priest for a theology class that would give open invites to join him outside of an abortion clinic but not to pray or offer help. He was quite open in that the best method for stopping these young girls from following through with it was to shame them and harass. I couldnt hold back from asking him doesnt the church teach to love everyone equally? He also refused to answer when he was asked by a few people how many people that method was successful for. On top of all that the molestation that took place and the cover ups were downright despicable and any and every person involved should rot in prison

My dad died an unfortunately early death at 58 in 2007 that was very sudden. During our planning process my mom was called multiple times by the priests about tithing on whatever money was to come out of it. That was pretty much the final straw for myself and my 4 brothers.

[ELDER06 248]

I grew up in a Catholic household, attended Catholic school up to 6th grade and again in college, involved in a ton of activities associated with the church growing up, mom worked there as a secretary for years, all of that etc. Over the last probably 10-15 years I've pretty much disassociated with the Catholic Church and really still wrestle with some beliefs and what not. I watched as a priest we knew for almost 20 years call out an older brother for not using church envelopes, even though he also said at the same time he saw him donating every week....an this was in from of about 30 people. Going to a Catholic college and listening to priests talk as if its 50 years ago got old fast. I had a priest for a theology class that would give open invites to join him outside of an abortion clinic but not to pray or offer help. He was quite open in that the best method for stopping these young girls from following through with it was to shame them and harass. I couldnt hold back from asking him doesnt the church teach to love everyone equally? He also refused to answer when he was asked by a few people how many people that method was successful for. On top of all that the molestation that took place and the cover ups were downright despicable and any and every person involved should rot in prison

My dad died an unfortunately early death at 58 in 2007 that was very sudden. During our planning process my mom was called multiple times by the priests about tithing on whatever money was to come out of it. That was pretty much the final straw for myself and my 4 brothers.

 

I agree, the hypocrisy is stunning at times. Here in Cincinnati, the diocese recently forced teachers to sign a contract staying they would follow the rules of the faith at all times. I am not arguing the legal merit, it's perfectly legal for the dioceses, but saying a physics teacher can't get pregnant through invitro is dumb. Even moreso when you consider they spent 40 years playing musical chairs moving pedophiles from parish to parish.

 

I love my high school ( as indicated by my handle), but could care less about the Church.

[S.B.IRISH 0]

I grew up in a Catholic household, attended Catholic school up to 6th grade and again in college, involved in a ton of activities associated with the church growing up, mom worked there as a secretary for years, all of that etc. Over the last probably 10-15 years I've pretty much disassociated with the Catholic Church and really still wrestle with some beliefs and what not. I watched as a priest we knew for almost 20 years call out an older brother for not using church envelopes, even though he also said at the same time he saw him donating every week....an this was in from of about 30 people. Going to a Catholic college and listening to priests talk as if its 50 years ago got old fast. I had a priest for a theology class that would give open invites to join him outside of an abortion clinic but not to pray or offer help. He was quite open in that the best method for stopping these young girls from following through with it was to shame them and harass. I couldnt hold back from asking him doesnt the church teach to love everyone equally? He also refused to answer when he was asked by a few people how many people that method was successful for. On top of all that the molestation that took place and the cover ups were downright despicable and any and every person involved should rot in prison

My dad died an unfortunately early death at 58 in 2007 that was very sudden. During our planning process my mom was called multiple times by the priests about tithing on whatever money was to come out of it. That was pretty much the final straw for myself and my 4 brothers.

 

This is an example of my point of Religion vs Relationship, and is exactly what turns people away from God. As a believer it's sad that there are millions that will never know Jesus due to all the hypocrisy that comes from Religion. If you have a true "relationship" with Jesus you will have a heart for people and love them just as Jesus loves you. I've never been to Catholic church and like you have an issue with some of their beliefs.

[SDIrishFan 607]

 

To the atheists/agnostics a few questions:

 

1) Can you please explain to me your thoughts on how Earth originated and how it's located perfectly for human life to exist? Any closer, we'd burn to death. Any further away, we'd freeze to death.

2) What are your thoughts on why Christ existed and lived? There has been numerous historical evidence supporting his baptism, life and teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection.

3) Why do feel 12 normal men (the disciples) completely devoted their lives to one man and one cause and ultimately die for this cause?

4) How do you feel that merely 12 men successfully spread Christ's teaching and church to millions beginning the largest religion to ever men? Again 12 to 1,000,000+ is quite the ratio. Do you think that is even possible today?

5) What are your thoughts on Marian apparitions (Virgin Mary) throughout the world the last couple hundred years?

 

 

I'll take a shot at these from a cynical point of view:

 

1. Law of averages. When our own galaxy is made up of roughly 300 billion stars, and the universe is made up of a hundred billion galaxies, don't you suppose the odds of a planet falling in the "Goldilocks zone" are pretty good? For those keeping track at home, it's proposed that roughly 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets may exist in the Goldilocks Zone.

 

2. None of the things you listed, with the exception of resurrection (which can't be proved or disproved), means he's the son of God.

 

3&4. Structurally, how is this any different than say, the Nazi Regime leading up to WWI. Putting the beliefs and politics aside, you've got a passionate, persuasive and intelligent leader with a small group of devoted followers trying to convert the masses to their beliefs. Hitler ran into problems for obvious reasons. But since what JC was pitching was "good", he was able to convert a lot of people.

 

5. How are these any different than the well documented UFO, ghost, Sasquatch, Easter bunny sightings during the same time period?

Edited August 10, 2014 by SDIrishFan

[OklahomaIrish 0]

The thing that we have remember about God's word is that it is never changing, the only thing that has changed is our response to it. Yes the Bible was written 2000 yrs ago not just for the people back then but for everyone who would ever live until the time of Jesus' return. We are the ones that want to change the word to fit us instead of changing ourselves to fit the word. Saying that God's word isn't for today is basically saying that God didn't know that times were going to change and he should have known to publish an updated Bible. And that's a dangerous stance to take with you to judgement day.

 

This is the truth. What would the world be like without the Bible and its teachings. What would the world be like without the Catholic Church. We had no hospitals before Christ, people were just left to die on the street. The Catholic Church to this day is the most generous institution in the world feeding millions of starving people every day. She has schools all over the world. She isn't afraid to speak the truth on any subject regardless how unpopular it may well be.

 

Birth control has lead to a sexual revolution that introduced all kinds of sexual diseases, it lead to the downfall of marriage and the rapid rise of divorce, it lead to the rise of homosexuality (I'm not saying it is wrong to be gay, but to participate in sexual acts such as in the days of Sodom and Gomorah), it has lead to millions leaving the Catholic Church and forming their own religions, it has lead to the murder of millions and millions of innocent babies in their mother's womb.

 

Many people believe that the tribulations are at hand and in messages given to the world by Our Lady (Notre Dame), the litmus test of the end times is abortion and which side of this issue we stand.

[Donjuan 16]

I'll take a shot at these from a cynical point of view:

 

1. Law of averages. When our own galaxy is made up of roughly 300 billion stars, and the universe is made up of a hundred billion galaxies, don't you suppose the odds of a planet falling in the "Goldilocks zone" are pretty good? For those keeping track at home, it's proposed that roughly 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets may exist in the Goldilocks Zone.

 

2. None of the things you listed, with the exception of resurrection (which can't be proved or disproved), means he's the son of God.

 

3&4. Structurally, how is this any different than say, the Nazi Regime leading up to WWI. Putting the beliefs and politics aside, you've got a passionate, persuasive and intelligent leader with a small group of devoted followers trying to convert the masses to their beliefs. Hitler ran into problems for obvious reasons. But since what JC was pitching was "good", he was able to convert a lot of people.

 

5. How are these any different than the well documented UFO, ghost, Sasquatch, Easter bunny sightings during the same time period?

 

Here's a simple question, when has there ever been an example of life emerging from the mixing of matter and energy??

[OKCIrish99 3]

I'll take a shot at these from a cynical point of view:

 

1. Law of averages. When our own galaxy is made up of roughly 300 billion stars, and the universe is made up of a hundred billion galaxies, don't you suppose the odds of a planet falling in the "Goldilocks zone" are pretty good?

 

2. None of the things you listed, with the except of resurrection (which can't be proved or disproved), means he's the son of God.

 

3&4. Structurally, how is this any different than say, the Nazi Regime leading up to WWI. Putting the beliefs and politics aside, you've got a passionate, persuasive and intelligent leader with a small group of devoted followers trying to convert the masses to their beliefs. Hitler ran into problems for obvious reasons. But since what JC was pitching was "good", he was able to convert a lot of people.

 

5. How are these any different than the well documented UFO, ghost, Sasquatch, Easter bunny sightings during the same time period?

Thank you for your response. I just want an idea on how atheists think, as a devout Catholic.

 

1) Considering there are only 8 planets completely in our solar system, it has to be the greatest improbability ever to occur where Earth was placed according to you. Obviously, I believe an all knowing, all powerful creator was responsible for this amazing coincidence.

2) All the documented miracles that Christ performed, prophesizing his death and resurrection, the Great Commission, and being the most influential person to walk the face of the Earth make a powerful and compelling argument that he was the Son of God. Longinus (pierced Christ's side quickly after the crucifixion) became a Christian martyr after being touched by Jesus' blood. Pontius Pilate wife told Pilate the night before the crucifixion that she had a dream that this man was indeed the Messiah. However, Pilate went through with the crucifixion to prevent upheaval from the crowd. These are just 2 examples. There are many others that exist.

3-4) Is Nazism present currently? Didn't think so. Christianity is the largest religion in the entire world with over 1,000,000,000 followers. Our religion and faith NEVER ends. We get eternal life.

5) They lack any relevant substance. I don't doubt for a bit that UFOs have existed from other extraterrestrial items. Are they promoting any meaningful message? The Virgin Mary IS promoting a relevant message continually with her consistent although unpredictable apparitions the last couple hundred years. Again, to find and love her son and gain eternal life. It is very depressing how secular this world has gotten. I will continue to pray for all the nonbelievers.

 

One other question for atheists/agnostics, since you don't believe in God, do you ANY fear whatsoever of what happens with you and your soul when you physically die? Again, just trying to tap into your thought processes.

[S.B.IRISH 0]

This is the truth. What would the world be like without the Bible and its teachings. What would the world be like without the Catholic Church. We had no hospitals before Christ, people were just left to die on the street. The Catholic Church to this day is the most generous institution in the world feeding millions of starving people every day. She has schools all over the world. She isn't afraid to speak the truth on any subject regardless how unpopular it may well be.

 

I'm just curious to know you stance on the Pope saying he won't judge Priests on their sexual orientation, like I said earlier I've never been to a Catholic Church and really don't know where some of their beliefs came from but to say he won't judge a gay Priest is hardly speaking the truth. Jesus called us to be fruit inspectors and a Priest molesting kids is not what I call bearing good fruit.

 

Also Jesus said there is one mediator between man and God, and we go to Him to confess and be forgiven of our sins. So why would one have to go to confessional and confess to a Priest to be forgiven of sins. I'm just trying to get an understanding of why the Catholic Church does things differently than then Bible states.

[OKCIrish99 3]

This is the truth. What would the world be like without the Bible and its teachings. What would the world be like without the Catholic Church. We had no hospitals before Christ, people were just left to die on the street. The Catholic Church to this day is the most generous institution in the world feeding millions of starving people every day. She has schools all over the world. She isn't afraid to speak the truth on any subject regardless how unpopular it may well be.

 

I'm just curious to know you stance on the Pope saying he won't judge Priests on their sexual orientation, like I said earlier I've never been to a Catholic Church and really don't know where some of their beliefs came from but to say he won't judge a gay Priest is hardly speaking the truth. Jesus called us to be fruit inspectors and a Priest molesting kids is not what I call bearing good fruit.

 

Also Jesus said there is one mediator between man and God, and we go to Him to confess and be forgiven of our sins. So why would one have to go to confessional and confess to a Priest to be forgiven of sins. I'm just trying to get an understanding of why the Catholic Church does things differently than then Bible states.

Pope Francis has been steadfast about accepting homosexuality and not being so quick to judge. Yes, there have been Catholic priests that have had issues with molestation. Any large organization has it's bad apples and the Church is no exception. Considering it's the largest Christian Church in the world with over 1.2 billion members, there are going to be issues. There have been non-Catholic ministers who have committed murder and rape. Again, things like this, sadly, will occur within any large organization.

 

But the fact remains, Jesus Christ intended for their only to be 1 church, his church. He specifically told St. Peter to "build his church that the gates of hell will not prevail against it." This is singular not plural. Christ also gave St. Peter and the apostles an incredible amount of power and authority, explicitly, telling them "whatever they bind on Earth will be bound in heaven." He also told them "whatever sins you forgive are forgiven, whatever sins you retain are retained." Thus, through these 2 amazing powers that Christ handed to the apostles, the ability for priests to forgive sins has been handed down. God STILL forgives the sin. The priest simply acts as the mediator and assists greatly in the process. Even in confession, there is a specific absolve prayer prayed to forgive sins also. Confession is a sacrament initiated by Christ and handed down by apostolic succession.

[SDIrishFan 607]

Here's a simple question, when has there ever been an example of life emerging from the mixing of matter and energy??

 

I don't know. When has there been an example of a supreme being creating something from nothing?

[S.B.IRISH 0]

Pope Francis has been steadfast about accepting homosexuality and not being so quick to judge. Yes, there have been Catholic priests that have had issues with molestation. Any large organization has it's bad apples and the Church is no exception. Considering it's the largest Christian Church in the world with over 1.2 billion members, there are going to be issues. There have been non-Catholic ministers who have committed murder and rape. Again, things like this, sadly, will occur within any large organization.

 

But the fact remains, Jesus Christ intended for their only to be 1 church, his church. He specifically told St. Peter to "build his church that the gates of hell will not prevail against it." This is singular not plural. Christ also gave St. Peter and the apostles an incredible amount of power and authority, explicitly, telling them "whatever they bind on Earth will be bound in heaven." He also told them "whatever sins you forgive are forgiven, whatever sins you retain are retained." Thus, through these 2 amazing powers that Christ handed to the apostles, the ability for priests to forgive sins has been handed down. God STILL forgives the sin. The priest simply acts as the mediator and assists greatly in the process. Even in confession, there is a specific absolve prayer prayed to forgive sins also. Confession is a sacrament initiated by Christ and handed down by apostolic succession.

 

I do know that in John 20:23 Jesus said "If you forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." But the interpretation of that passage could be misleading. This scripture is saying as the disciples proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in the message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. In John 3:36 Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him”. No where in the New Testament did they preach any doctrine other than Jesus and only Jesus being the mediator and forgiving sins. Also Peter teaches that Jesus is the High priest and ALL believers in Christ are priests unto God. ALL men are sinners and need a Savior, I just can't imagine going to a man and asking forgiveness of my sins nor does the Bible state that I should do so.

Edited August 10, 2014 by S.B.IRISH

[Donjuan 16]

I don't know. When has there been an example of a supreme being creating something from nothing?

 

Well if life can't be created by mixing energy and matter, then what other than a supernatural creation could have provided the impetus?? In all of history one thing is certain; life produces life. Simple as that. Life never comes from the inanimate...

[OKCIrish99 3]

I do know that in John 20:23 Jesus said "If you forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." But the interpretation of that passage could be misleading.

Why would you not take what Jesus says literally? Our messiah, our savior, he deserves that. The most glaring example is when Christ says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.…"

 

ALL Christians up to the Reformation took this LITERALLY, and Catholics still do today. Even Martin Luther who initiated your faith believed the Eucharist WAS the body and blood of Christ. He was, previously, a Catholic priest and simply changed his fundamental belief to support his agenda. I have gone to nearly every denominational service in Christianity, and none come close to approaching a Catholic mass and the Eucharist. I recently got back from Lanciano, Italy and personally witnessed the Eucharistic miracle there. Numerous scientific analyses have consistently proven that this miracle is authentic. That's, quite simply, because this is the body and blood of Christ supporting the Catholic belief and, literally, what Christ stated.

[S.B.IRISH 0]

So why was this doctorine never taught anywhere in the bible? The disciples didn't take it literally or they would have taught this while doing the great commission. The first church was the book of Acts church, did they go to a priest for forgiveness of sins?

Edited August 10, 2014 by S.B.IRISH