Post game: #15 Notre Dame @ Clemson(Loss 31-23)

[retch10 121]

16 minutes ago, Baldy said:

This right here kind of proves my point, so that’s coaching. So, it appears it did get through.

However, I do get what you’re saying in not switching out coaches.

Just not pleased with the product on the field.

I think you’re missing the point. The articles exaggerate the talent. The “promise of summer”.  Everyone looks great in August. 

[Joey D.... 32]

Clemson zero penalty yards

[Baldy 1,225]

15 minutes ago, retch10 said:

I think you’re missing the point. The articles exaggerate the talent. The “promise of summer”.  Everyone looks great in August. 

Dude, I’m not. You’re missing the point I’m trying to make.

Basically…

[Baldy 1,225]

13 minutes ago, Joey D.... said:

Clemson zero penalty yards

Yup! Total bulls**t!

[retch10 121]

Just now, Baldy said:

Dude, I’m not. You’re missing the point I’m trying to make.

Basically…

No. I know the point you’re making. That it’s a coaching issue because we have a lot of “great” WR’s. 

Until we see them be “great” on the field….we don’t. And we haven’t. 
 

 

[AnTostal 763]

I take solace in that I predicted ND would go 9-3 this season, winning 1 of the ‘big 3’ (OSU/USC/Clemson) and losing 1 other. 
If ND wins out, and they should, it will have been a successful season from my perspective. A head coach on the rise, a good team. 
But ND CANNOT lose to Wake or to Stanford. Cannot. 
Lose to either of those and watch your 2025 recruiting tank. 
Freeman needs to be a cut throat coach and find a real OC. Hard to dump the guy he knows and likes but necessary if he wants to become the head coach I think he can be. 
9-3, and hopefully a bowl win against a good team, then on to 2024. With a new OC. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by AnTostal

[Baldy 1,225]

Aside from all that, what makes this loss so bad is this…

I love Freeman, so I want him to be successful! But having the same record in 2023 as they did in 2022 is unacceptable.

[TexasDomer 1,286]

1 hour ago, VCDomer said:

Freeman is not entirely the problem. His mistake promoting a Zero experienced OC cord. Golden has been good. Hartman has been declining since Duke. He seems to have been affected by the early Heisman talk and forgot how to throw on time and accurately. The OC has no game plan for short passes with a sub par receiver corps. Let’s through bombs and long ? 

I’m not sure he had a choice on OC after the AD refund to pay for anyone else 

[nremdn 34]

7 minutes ago, TexasDomer said:

I’m not sure he had a choice on OC after the AD refund to pay for anyone else 

I would really like to know exactly what happened with all of that. I’d be willing to bet people at ND would prefer the fanbase never gets those details, especially considering how bad this season has gone offensively.

[Baldy 1,225]

27 minutes ago, retch10 said:

No. I know the point you’re making. That it’s a coaching issue because we have a lot of “great” WR’s. 

Until we see them be “great” on the field….we don’t. And we haven’t. 
 

 

And why haven’t they been great? Sounds like coaching to me, because these receiver should be very good, and have only gotten worse.

Then again, maybe it’s more on Hartman than anyone, because I did see the receivers get open at times and Hartman totally miss them.

🤷🏼‍♂️

[Rocketsan 768]

6 hours ago, Angus said:

Amen but this appears to be the easily offended black lives matter irish fan club.

You’re trash. 

[VCDomer 68]

No short passing game

[retch10 121]

59 minutes ago, Baldy said:

And why haven’t they been great? Sounds like coaching to me, because these receiver should be very good, and have only gotten worse.

Then again, maybe it’s more on Hartman than anyone, because I did see the receivers get open at times and Hartman totally miss them.

🤷🏼‍♂️

Because…they…ARE NOT...great. 

Flores.Greathouse.  Freshman 

Merriweather…average

Tyree…first year at position 

Thomas…injured

Faison- small 

You are overvaluing the entire group 

 

[mcgov12 1,235]

1 hour ago, Baldy said:

And why haven’t they been great? Sounds like coaching to me, because these receiver should be very good, and have only gotten worse.

Then again, maybe it’s more on Hartman than anyone, because I did see the receivers get open at times and Hartman totally miss them.

🤷🏼‍♂️

I’m out of likes and sections, so beer mug.

But in all honesty, this game was on coaching and Hartman specifically. Coaching doesn’t correct the amount of overthrows he made. It was a terrible game and he’s clearly regressed. WRs haven’t made the progress you’d hope to see. Liufau and some of these veterans tackled like garbage.

It starts with coaching. Does it include players? Hell yes. But need to take a long look at this coaching staff going forward.

[Baldy 1,225]

34 minutes ago, retch10 said:

Because…they…ARE NOT...great. 

Flores.Greathouse.  Freshman 

Merriweather…average

Tyree…first year at position 

Thomas…injured

Faison- small 

You are overvaluing the entire group 

 

Dude! Once again, I never said they were great!

And how am I overvaluing them when I’m trying to say they SHOULD be good, BUT because of coaching, are not and have regressed?

Like, are you messing with me, or are you being for real?

[Baldy 1,225]

25 minutes ago, mcgov12 said:

I’m out of likes and sections, so beer mug.

But in all honesty, this game was on coaching and Hartman specifically. Coaching doesn’t correct the amount of overthrows he made. It was a terrible game and he’s clearly regressed. WRs haven’t made the progress you’d hope to see. Liufau and some of these veterans tackled like garbage.

It starts with coaching. Does it include players? Hell yes. But need to take a long look at this coaching staff going forward.

Yes! Exactly right, and I could not agree more!

[jessemoore97 1,274]

We need a new OC.  This is the same shit I railed for years with Kelly. 

It's established fact that our chance to win goes up exponentially when we go greater than 150+ rushing in a game.  We control the clock, keep the defense off the field and wear down the opponent.  Pretty much every game we have lost for as far back as I can remember hinges on this.  

I get we have a small, young, receiving room this year.  But have/had a glut of stud TE's, yet deem only one worthy of being a mismatch pass catcher and everyone else a sixth OL blocker.  Remember Evans was barely targeted the first few games by Hartman, Staes led the team with TD receptions early on.  

I get that Parker is a Leach disciple, but I really hate those offenses.  Why?  Because they absolutely do not play to the strengths of our offense, which consistently through the years has been the OL, RB, and TE.  Leach's offense or similar styles do not work well with our traditional style and manner to which we recruit period.  An OC like Ludwig absolutely would have meshed well with our style and personnel.  We need a new OC who understands this and can develope a QB.

 

[retch10 121]

6 hours ago, Baldy said:

Dude! Once again, I never said they were great!

And how am I overvaluing them when I’m trying to say they SHOULD be good, BUT because of coaching, are not and have regressed?

Like, are you messing with me, or are you being for real?

This is what you said: 

I don’t know? I feel this is more on Stuckey than the players.

The reason is I feel the receivers have regressed big time as the season has gone on, and there are a lot of great players in that room. It’s just so unacceptable they have not gotten better 10 games in! Like, how can they not get separation!?

Are we having the same conversation? You seem to want to put all the blame on the coaches. Which I said kinda fascinates me. I've said coaches can't be absolved of all blame, but that they can only do so much. 

How many of these guys are going to end up playing on Sundays? Greathouse has the potential to do so..but I don't think he projects to a first rounder.  Flores? Maybe a day 3 type draft pick. Jayden Thomas? Maybe makes an NFL roster. Merriweather? He's the disappointment. He has the traits to develop..and he hasn't. Yet. 

Is that on Stuckey? Parker? We have no idea. We don't know what is taking place inside those walls. Which is why it fascinates me that peoples automatic "go to" is..."that's coaching". When I see these players look great against lesser talent but are  just JAGS againt superior talent, it tells ME that the players aren't great. It tells ME that they're true talent level is above Central Michigan but not quite there (for whatever reason) against Ohio State, Duke, Louisville, and Clemson.  It says nothing to me about coaching.

I give the young guys time.. Merriweather, Flores, Greathouse. True improvement comes between January-August. Its really hard to grow your game in-season. You're focused on opponent, gameplan, team specific things at that point.Further, Greathouse and Thomas have been injured..so that makes it really hard. 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by retch10

[GunSlinger 28]

What else is new. 

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

16 hours ago, Kid Gloves said:

Hartman was bad. 

But our receivers got no separation all game. No one was open.

Parker needs to go.

16 hours ago, retch10 said:

The most predictable fan response on the planet.

We lost today for reasons that were not the head coach. Or the offensive coordinator. They are not without blame...everyone can share in it. We lost today because PLAYERS didn't tackle well.  We lost today because the OL was average at best in pass protection. We lost today because NO ONE COULD GET OPEN.  We lost today because a 6th year QB was erratic and turned the ball over.

Is the OC partly to blame for those offensive shortcomings? Sure.  If the guys can't win one on one battles and get open, you better call something to get them open. Not easy to do. If your QB looks erratic and the OL is struggling, you better move him around and get him some easy throws.  Didn't try much of that. I'd offer that playcalling is a tough job to begin with...and when your line is shaky, the QB isn't getting it done and your WR's can't win one on one...Its damn near impossible.

Do better than "the coaches suck." The implication in that is that you know football and they don't. Ironically, when i read it, its a glaring indication of a very superficial level of knowledge.

15 hours ago, estimebicep said:

I am just sad. I like freeman a lot but it makes me question him because he hired parker. Parker is not qualified nor good. I also like hartman and him to transfer in and sadly he isnt as good as i thought. It is just a disappointing year. Certain dudes like meriweather, liafau, henderson need to be sat down. If parker comes back then nd is in major trouble cuz it will be another wasted year. He is that bad.

15 hours ago, TexasDomer said:

I feel like we’re on the same page.  I’m actually happier than with Kelly, but if they cracked open that wallet for the OC last offseason what might have happened to our team?

I'm coming into this thread a day later so I am going to quote a few posts at a time to catch up and give my responses instead of a bunch of individual replies.  Here's my feeling regarding the meat and potatoes of these posts, Gerad Parker.  We all know Freeman is learning on the job.  I think we can all agree that, like Al Golden prior to last season, the administration/Freeman should have hired a qualified experienced OC as a crutch while Freeman honed his coaching throughout this season.  Having two experienced coordinators could have done wonders for Freeman's development.  However, how much blame for the offensive woes can be placed solely on Parker?  Its Freeman's offense that he is calling.  No urgency.  No tempo.  Just run it down your throat smashmouth football.  I wonder how differently Parker would be calling plays if he had his way.  I sure would have liked to see how he'd do with free reign.  Unfortunately, I don't think another season can be wasted with letting that happen.  I think Freeman needs to let Parker interview for his own job in these last two games.  Let him call the game he wants to call.  If its not up to snuff, someone new needs to be brought in.