Rich Pay Most of The Taxes

[scintrigue 0]

Not true and frankly, scintrigue, you're smarter than this. Carter did not keep the country safe. He weakened our defense to the point that we were getting our teeth kicked in. Iranians took over our embassy in 1979 holding our citizens hostage for over a year. When the Islamists took over this country, it gave them a financial base of operations and Iran is still the biggest backer of Islamic terrorism around the world.

 

9/11 happened on Bush's watch but what happened right before that? The intelligence agencies and the FBI could not talk to eachother and help out in investigations because a wall between law enforcement agencies was set up by Jamie Gorelick and the Clinton administration. Clinton did not after terrorists under his term and thats why the WTC, the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya were bombed, and USS Cole was attacked. Clinton also had 2 chances to get Osama bin Laden and refused to take him; once when Uganda offered to give him up, and the other when our foreign intelligence had him on his sights. Secretary of State Madeline Albright refused to give the go ahead for his head following orders from Clinton.

 

Ramzi bin al shieb and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had been planning out these attacks since 1993. It wasn't until Bush went after them that they were caught. You can say what you want about Bush but he did keep this country safe after 9/11. Clinton did not and the attacks kept escalating until that happened. Had he done something about history may be different.

Please read the "Looming Tower" by Lawrence Wright which detail these accounts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Looming_Tower

 

Okay, first off you are straying from the point. After the fact, you can point fingers all over the place on whos fault 911 was. You can blame the Clinton admin for 911 and not blame Bush fine. But if an attack happens on Obamas watch I want every single event that Bush did or did not act on brought up that led to that attack as well. And after it happens and we are "safe" for a few years I will then say at least Obama kept us safe.

 

 

Not to mention you can blame Reagan to, hes the one that supplied Afganistan with the guns they use now and pulled out before giving them a proper education. In turn they thurned into militants and thugs.

Edited January 28, 2010 by scintrigue

[mcdougal93 0]

Okay, first off you are straying from the point. After the fact, you can point fingers all over the place on whos fault 911 was. You can blame the Clinton admin for 911 and not blame Bush fine. But if an attack happens on Obamas watch I want every single event that Bush did or did not act on brought up that led to that attack as well. And after it happens and we are "safe" for a few years I will then say at least Obama kept us safe.

 

 

Not to mention you can blame Reagan to, hes the one that supplied Afganistan with the guns they use now and pulled out before giving them a proper education. In turn they thurned into militants and thugs.

 

1. Bush has some blame on this but so does the previous administration. I never stated that he wasn't to blame.

 

2. That is a complete misrepresentation. When you listen to those who worked in the CIA, the weapons such as the stinger missiles that were supplied to the mujahadeen in Afghanistan did not go to Al-Qaeda. There was a deep mistrust between the Taliban, mujahadeen and Al-qaeda. The Afghan locals resented foreign fighters from coming in to fight their war bin Laden included. Second, even if true so what? We were fighting a bigger enemy, the Soviets at that time. The wepons supplied to the Afghans helped defeat the Soviets and embarrass them. Their economy was crippled because they had to compete with us in military spending and that was something they could not do. The defeat of the Soviets was a body blow to the Soviet military and it was a good thing for the Afghans and for the US.

 

There are times when you have to make alliances with countries you don't want to in order to defeat a bigger enemy and Afghanistan is an example. In WWII we made an alliance with Stalin and helped him defeat Hitler.

Edited January 28, 2010 by mcdougal93

[scintrigue 0]

1. Bush has some blame on this but so does the previous administration. I never stated that he wasn't to blame.

 

2. That is a complete misrepresentation. When you listen to those who worked in the CIA, the weapons such as the stinger missiles that were supplied to the mujahadeen in Afghanistan did not go to Al-Qaeda. There was a deep mistrust between the Taliban, mujahadeen and Al-qaeda. The Afghan locals resented foreign fighters from coming in to fight their war bin Laden included. Second, even if true so what? We were fighting a bigger enemy, the Soviets at that time. The wepons supplied to the Afghans helped defeat the Soviets and embarrass them. Their economy was crippled because they had to compete with us in military spending and that was something they could not do. The defeat of the Soviets was a body blow to the Soviet military and it was a good thing for the Afghans and for the US.

 

There are times when you have to make alliances with countries you don't want to in order to defeat a bigger enemy and Afghanistan is an example. In WWII we made an alliance with Stalin and helped him defeat Hitler.

 

1. The point I was making was although we drove back the Russians, we also left that country in shambles. After that the taliban ect. were formed and took over the country.

 

2. Yes, but obvisously that came back to bite us in the ass as well, seeing they were the bigger enemy we had to form an alliance with the Afghans to fight them. So now we are dating back to 1940 when it all started. So how exactly did Bush make us safe again, over any other president? Which was my original point in the matter.

 

3. For my own curiousity I wonder if we do get attacked with Obama in office who will you blame? Will you put as much research into seeing if Bush had something to do with it like you did with Clinton?

 

 

4. To the Bush Point of having some blame as you mentioned. Okay, great I am glad we agree. We can also agree that I was asking Rockne to back up his statements, which he never does. At least with any logic. Me and you can go on for days debating one issue. We have been through this. lol.

Edited January 29, 2010 by scintrigue

[mcdougal93 0]

1. The point I was making was although we drove back the Russians, we also left that country in shambles. After that the taliban ect. were formed and took over the country.

 

2. Yes, but obvisously that came back to bite us in the ass as well, seeing they were the bigger enemy we had to form an alliance with the Afghans to fight them. So now we are dating back to 1940 when it all started. So how exactly did Bush make us safe again, over any other president? Which was my original point in the matter.

 

3. For my own curiousity I wonder if we do get attacked with Obama in office who will you blame? Will you put as much research into seeing if Bush had something to do with it like you did with Clinton?

 

 

4. To the Bush Point of having some blame as you mentioned. Okay, great I am glad we agree. We can also agree that I was asking Rockne to back up his statements, which he never does. At least with any logic. Me and you can go on for days debating one issue. We have been through this. lol.

 

I think we've reached some agreement and kept it civil but would like to respond to #3.

 

I would like to think that I would take all the evidence from my research and blame the person/people resonsible. Do I have some bias? Absolutely and most on here know that, you have yours, and everyone has a bias. As long as we admit that we have a certain viewpoint and back it up, I have no problem with it. There will always be disagreement.

 

During 9/11 there was enough blame to go around but the threat was not taken seriously in the 90s when it should have been and that was my point. I think the same is happening now by giving terrorist masterminds their day in civilian court, paying for legal representation, and granting them rights in the city that they attacked. None of these things make us safer, they make us weaker. The proper way to handle this would be get as much information from these subhumans and kill them.

[scintrigue 0]

I think we've reached some agreement and kept it civil but would like to respond to #3.

 

I would like to think that I would take all the evidence from my research and blame the person/people resonsible. Do I have some bias? Absolutely and most on here know that, you have yours, and everyone has a bias. As long as we admit that we have a certain viewpoint and back it up, I have no problem with it. There will always be disagreement.

 

During 9/11 there was enough blame to go around but the threat was not taken seriously in the 90s when it should have been and that was my point. I think the same is happening now by giving terrorist masterminds their day in civilian court, paying for legal representation, and granting them rights in the city that they attacked. None of these things make us safer, they make us weaker. The proper way to handle this would be get as much information from these subhumans and kill them.

 

I agree where you are coming from. But these crimes were against America and therefore need to be handled by the justice that America stand for. It is beneath us to do otherwise. You cannot show the world you are the beacon of hope and democracy and then do things you do not stand for. By doing such we are showing we are a moral and just society. We cannot just send these people to hang! If so, we will gather more angst from other nations, which will be a determent to our security. We are showing that we still stand for principles while nations like China, Russia, North Korea, most islamic nations do not. As much as you want to beat these mofos asses and toture them until they are on their last breath, we have to stand up for the world as better than that.

[mcdougal93 0]

I agree where you are coming from. But these crimes were against America and therefore need to be handled by the justice that America stand for. It is beneath us to do otherwise. You cannot show the world you are the beacon of hope and democracy and then do things you do not stand for. By doing such we are showing we are a moral and just society. We cannot just send these people to hang! If so, we will gather more angst from other nations, which will be a determent to our security. We are showing that we still stand for principles while nations like China, Russia, North Korea, most islamic nations do not. As much as you want to beat these mofos asses and toture them until they are on their last breath, we have to stand up for the world as better than that.

 

And this is where we will always disagree........It's a war and war is a last option. The object is to kill their leaders and kill more of them so they don't kill you. The only reason they were captured is to gain information. You don't give the enemy the resources to beat you and use the legal system to make him a hero to his followers.

 

Showing the world how altruistic and nice we are only makes us look weak while they laugh at us. For all this talk about "extending our hand not a clenched fist" and "involving the rest of the world" the muslim world still hates us.

 

Not to mention the millions of tax money being spent on this vermin instead of spending it to build roads or something else.

[scintrigue 0]

And this is where we will always disagree........It's a war and war is a last option. The object is to kill their leaders and kill more of them so they don't kill you. The only reason they were captured is to gain information. You don't give the enemy the resources to beat you and use the legal system to make him a hero to his followers.

Showing the world how altruistic and nice we are only makes us look weak while they laugh at us. For all this talk about "extending our hand not a clenched fist" and "involving the rest of the world" the muslim world still hates us.

 

Not to mention the millions of tax money being spent on this vermin instead of spending it to build roads or something else.

 

1 Well what you gather they are going to think when you hang him?

 

2 It is not about being a concerened for them. It is a symbol. A symbol that American is above the rest when it comes to justice. They will serve justice, do not get it twisted like they will go free, that is laughable.

 

 

Oh also I wanted to know where you got that qoute that is in your Sig. That GOD invented whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world. I LOVE THAT QOUTE! I used it the other day. lol

Edited January 29, 2010 by scintrigue

[mcdougal93 0]

1 Well what you gather they are going to think when you hang him?

 

2 It is not about being a concerened for them. It is a symbol. A symbol that American is above the rest when it comes to justice. They will serve justice, do not get it twisted like they will go free, that is laughable.

 

 

Oh also I wanted to know where you got that qoute that is in your Sig. That GOD invented whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world. I LOVE THAT QOUTE! I used it the other day. lol

 

 

Why the civilian trial then? Military trial will have done just fine. Just kill him and make our enemies FEAR us.

 

The quote is from some famous irish sayings. Ask any irishman and they will know it....

[scintrigue 0]

Why the civilian trial then? Military trial will have done just fine. Just kill him and make our enemies FEAR us.

The quote is from some famous irish sayings. Ask any irishman and they will know it....

 

 

I dont understand this. They already know he is going to die or in prison forever. You want them to fear-us-kill-Osama. Fear is a reaction, mostly short-lived then turns to anger because of pride.

 

I have no defence, I fear snakes, I run away. I have a gun and fear snakes I kill it.

[mcdougal93 0]

I dont understand this. They already know he is going to die or in prison forever. You want them to fear-us-kill-Osama. Fear is a reaction, mostly short-lived then turns to anger because of pride.

 

I have no defence, I fear snakes, I run away. I have a gun and fear snakes I kill it.

 

would you ever provoke the snake?

[PursuitAce 0]

Stop the propaganda...you'll never get anywhere if you keep thinking like republicans and democrats...that's what they want you to do...it's working out just great for the country isn't it?...Start thinking like old-school Americans...truth, justice, liberty...the finest people on the planet.

No one in any political party deserves your loyalty for the right to harm the country. Don't we all want the same things, but we differ on how to get there? So that makes us enemies?...Nonsense...Don't cling to a wrong concept, because if it's wrong you're somehow a bad person...more nonsense...

Let me tell you an earth-shattering secret...the leadership of this country....isn't going to solve our problems...We The People are.

Just start thinking about it...because the right kind of thinking leads to the right kind of action.

[scintrigue 0]

would you ever provoke the snake?

 

 

Not if I had a weapon, but if I had a gun I might just shoot that bitch.

 

 

 

 

Stop the propaganda...you'll never get anywhere if you keep thinking like republicans and democrats...that's what they want you to do...it's working out just great for the country isn't it?...Start thinking like old-school Americans...truth, justice, liberty...the finest people on the planet.

No one in any political party deserves your loyalty for the right to harm the country. Don't we all want the same things, but we differ on how to get there? So that makes us enemies?...Nonsense...Don't cling to a wrong concept, because if it's wrong you're somehow a bad person...more nonsense...

Let me tell you an earth-shattering secret...the leadership of this country....isn't going to solve our problems...We The People are.

Just start thinking about it...because the right kind of thinking leads to the right kind of action.

 

 

I like this dude. Speaks the truth.

[IrishGuy 178]

I am just going to jump off topic for a second, and then we can get back to the original topic....

 

The open forum allows us a place to talk about anything we want. It is NOT a place to attack fellow members of the DD because they disagree with your opinion. If personal attacks continue, we (the admins / mods) will take action.

[scintrigue 0]

I am just going to jump off topic for a second, and then we can get back to the original topic....

 

The open forum allows us a place to talk about anything we want. It is NOT a place to attack fellow members of the DD because they disagree with your opinion. If personal attacks continue, we (the admins / mods) will take action.

 

Is this directed at me?

[mcdougal93 0]

Is this directed at me?

 

Don't think so. Will find out.......No worries I think you've expressed your viewpoint in good way.

[RockneDrive 0]

Somebody called 93 in an indirect way a douche. I alerted the mods by hitting the "alert post" button. Can't recall who it was though. You know who you are. I'm not even sure that post was removed though. Perhaps the warning is for something else.

Edited January 30, 2010 by cjdomer04
obvious