Hartman Struggling

[ndomer4 532]

 

 

Has anyone else listened to this? I for one am not someone to panic or get too hyped up over spring ball, however, there are some valid concerns that give me pause. Hartman did pile up his stats against some weaker ACC competition and did struggle vs better teams (as most do...). Hartman is coming into an entirely new offence and after watching Wake the past few years, the offence seemed gimmicky. What if Hartman has already reached his ceiling? What if he was elevated by the Wake system and excelled vs the worst P5 competition in college football? 

One thing I have learned from this whole situation is that Buchner does not fear a little competition. Most QBs in his position would have transferred but Buchner didn't flinch. Buchner has a much higher ceiling than Hartman and if he reaches his potential, he could potentially be a Heisman contender and lead us to the playoffs. He has character, his teammates love him, he's an incredible athlete... but those mechanics, the turnovers and the Marshall game. The guy is an enigma. If he starts this year, I think this team either crashes/burns and he transfers, or ND wins double digit games in the regular season. 

It brings some intrigue into fall camp nonetheless. My prediction? Hartman starts and ND has a similar season to 2021 and ends up in a NY6 bowl game. Hartman has a solid, yet unspectacular year and Buchner is a more than capable back up. This teams identity is that they have a mean offensive line (IMO, best OL unit in CFB), big tight ends and a stable of running backs. This is a run first football team that is going to make teams pay with the play action. Buchner will see some time running the zone read and the offence might be more dynamic with him, but I'm not ready to go there yet. We'll know fairly soon if Sam is worth the hype and if he's not, I think he's got a shorter leash than we might have anticipated. 

Thoughts? predictions? 

[mcgov12 1,235]

1 hour ago, ndomer4 said:

 

 

Has anyone else listened to this? I for one am not someone to panic or get too hyped up over spring ball, however, there are some valid concerns that give me pause. Hartman did pile up his stats against some weaker ACC competition and did struggle vs better teams (as most do...). Hartman is coming into an entirely new offence and after watching Wake the past few years, the offence seemed gimmicky. What if Hartman has already reached his ceiling? What if he was elevated by the Wake system and excelled vs the worst P5 competition in college football? 

One thing I have learned from this whole situation is that Buchner does not fear a little competition. Most QBs in his position would have transferred but Buchner didn't flinch. Buchner has a much higher ceiling than Hartman and if he reaches his potential, he could potentially be a Heisman contender and lead us to the playoffs. He has character, his teammates love him, he's an incredible athlete... but those mechanics, the turnovers and the Marshall game. The guy is an enigma. If he starts this year, I think this team either crashes/burns and he transfers, or ND wins double digit games in the regular season. 

It brings some intrigue into fall camp nonetheless. My prediction? Hartman starts and ND has a similar season to 2021 and ends up in a NY6 bowl game. Hartman has a solid, yet unspectacular year and Buchner is a more than capable back up. This teams identity is that they have a mean offensive line (IMO, best OL unit in CFB), big tight ends and a stable of running backs. This is a run first football team that is going to make teams pay with the play action. Buchner will see some time running the zone read and the offence might be more dynamic with him, but I'm not ready to go there yet. We'll know fairly soon if Sam is worth the hype and if he's not, I think he's got a shorter leash than we might have anticipated. 

Thoughts? predictions? 

What a great post, well said all around.

I think you hit the nail on the head about Buchner. He doesn’t seem to be fazed by competition. By all Spring practice accounts, Buchner has looked like the better qb. I still firmly believe Hartman is starting against Navy, but if it’s really this close I think Buchner continues to see the field in some situations/packages. I do think once there’s some more familiarity with his receivers that Hartman takes off and separates a little bit. For ND fans’ sake, I hope it’s really as close as they say it is. That’s a hell of a problem to have.

Buchner does keep me on my toes when he’s in. His ceiling is sky high, but I refer to him like my golf game, wildly inconsistent. Does great things, followed by mind boggling things, followed by athletic plays I couldn’t dream of.

 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,702]

4 hours ago, ndomer4 said:

 

 

Has anyone else listened to this? I for one am not someone to panic or get too hyped up over spring ball, however, there are some valid concerns that give me pause. Hartman did pile up his stats against some weaker ACC competition and did struggle vs better teams (as most do...). Hartman is coming into an entirely new offence and after watching Wake the past few years, the offence seemed gimmicky. What if Hartman has already reached his ceiling? What if he was elevated by the Wake system and excelled vs the worst P5 competition in college football? 

One thing I have learned from this whole situation is that Buchner does not fear a little competition. Most QBs in his position would have transferred but Buchner didn't flinch. Buchner has a much higher ceiling than Hartman and if he reaches his potential, he could potentially be a Heisman contender and lead us to the playoffs. He has character, his teammates love him, he's an incredible athlete... but those mechanics, the turnovers and the Marshall game. The guy is an enigma. If he starts this year, I think this team either crashes/burns and he transfers, or ND wins double digit games in the regular season. 

It brings some intrigue into fall camp nonetheless. My prediction? Hartman starts and ND has a similar season to 2021 and ends up in a NY6 bowl game. Hartman has a solid, yet unspectacular year and Buchner is a more than capable back up. This teams identity is that they have a mean offensive line (IMO, best OL unit in CFB), big tight ends and a stable of running backs. This is a run first football team that is going to make teams pay with the play action. Buchner will see some time running the zone read and the offence might be more dynamic with him, but I'm not ready to go there yet. We'll know fairly soon if Sam is worth the hype and if he's not, I think he's got a shorter leash than we might have anticipated. 

Thoughts? predictions? 

Hartman was in a very specific system at Wake Forest. As a result, he knew that NFL teams might not take his numbers at face value. In talking to the Media Hartman said, he was only under center for victory formation. The ND offense has formations, shifts, changes in tempo and under center. All of which Hartman has never done much of. Than Rees jumps ship and Hartman's without a guide for 2-3 weeks. So I too am not worried, but it has tempered my expectations a bit.

[jessemoore97 1,274]

Wait and see what plays out.  TB is often injured and wildly inconsistent.  Hartman came from a very different system and is hitting a learning curve.  Both have risks and rewards.  It's still pretty early to gauge one way or another.  A starter won't be announced until Navy week that much I'd wager.

[Big23Head 2,255]

Sam is learning a lot right now. Under center, new footwork, new terminology, new surrounding players, and life in general. He will have a better understanding of the opposing defenses and in game situations most likely. Summer workouts will be big for him and a lot of growth will likely happen. 
 

Tyler might finally be growing into what everyone hoped. It sounds like his last practice was finally an all around excellent throwing practice for him. Coach Gino could be huge for Tyler’s growth and it might start speeding forward. Also having someone like Sam pushing him will help, certainly compared to Pyne. 
 

No matter what it is a good thing for ND. Two top QBs pushing each other. As long as both stick around it’s a win. 

[Synoptico 334]

3 hours ago, Big23Head said:

Sam is learning a lot right now. Under center, new footwork, new terminology, new surrounding players, and life in general. He will have a better understanding of the opposing defenses and in game situations most likely. Summer workouts will be big for him and a lot of growth will likely happen. 
 

Tyler might finally be growing into what everyone hoped. It sounds like his last practice was finally an all around excellent throwing practice for him. Coach Gino could be huge for Tyler’s growth and it might start speeding forward. Also having someone like Sam pushing him will help, certainly compared to Pyne. 
 

No matter what it is a good thing for ND. Two top QBs pushing each other. As long as both stick around it’s a win. 

And that bolded part is why he came to ND, to get him in a more NFL situation. 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,702]

3 minutes ago, Synoptico said:

And that bolded part is why he came to ND, to get him in a more NFL situation. 

Yep. To me I expected him to stuggle. It keeps buchner engaged and not looking at other options. Wake Forest QBs don't get drafted often. ND's do.

[Baldy 1,225]

This thread after today:


 

😬😂

[Mike 685]

14 minutes ago, Baldy said:

This thread after today:


 

😬😂

More like this.

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,702]

6 minutes ago, Baldy said:

This thread after today:


 

😬😂

Spring Football is over-reaction season. The commentators see one practice  and think one way. We see one practice and think another. Its anbody's guess.

[Baldy 1,225]

2 hours ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

Spring Football is over-reaction season. The commentators see one practice  and think one way. We see one practice and think another. Its anbody's guess.

Trust me, I totally get that!  I was just trying to be funny because Buchner did not appear to be ascending, while Hartman did not appear to be struggling.  😜

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,702]

7 minutes ago, Baldy said:

Trust me, I totally get that!  I was just trying to be funny because Buchner did not appear to be ascending, while Hartman did not appear to be struggling.  😜

it is funny, the comemtators that all posted those videos have to have short memories because they don't have to be right, they just have to get us to react.

[ndomer4 532]

9 hours ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

it is funny, the comemtators that all posted those videos have to have short memories because they don't have to be right, they just have to get us to react.

It definitely worked. It sparked a discussion at least, but I don’t think anyone in here thought Buchner would start. I still haven’t seen anything with my own eyes to suggest he will win the job in 2024. 

[coltssb 1,044]

People would have to be nuts to think Hartman isn’t starting. He’s like a 6th year starter/transfer. Plus he’s like 24. He’s seen a lot of football.  

I only saw the highlights but like most, I would love to see in the future that after the draft, qbs switch teams during half and take a few series with that group. Seemed like Buchner could have benefitted with having Alt on the left side. Anywho, Hartman is the starter and Buchner is the clear backup. That much is clear. Those that wanted Minchey to replace Buchner earlier in the year is like saying Buchner should start over Hartman. It’s that obvious who’s better at this point. Keep Buchner happy and let’s roll with Hartman. 

[NDLincPark 28]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:25 AM, Big23Head said:

 

Tyler might finally be growing into what everyone hoped. It sounds like his last practice was finally an all around excellent throwing practice for him. Coach Gino could be huge for Tyler’s growth and it might start speeding forward. 
 

 .......After a snippet of a practice in April.  Desperate fans, very weird. Very delusional 

[TexasDomer 1,286]

Yeah, if you’re describing Big as delusional and desperate, you’re not going to get a lot of agreement.

[NDLincPark 28]

7 minutes ago, TexasDomer said:

Yeah, if you’re describing Big as delusional and desperate, you’re not going to get a lot of agreement.

Why are so many of our fans hung up on this POS buchner? 

He was/is friging awful.    People are obsessed with pretending that he is not just a terrible qb 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,702]

Just now, NDLincPark said:

Why are so many of our fans hung up on this POS buchner? 

He was/is friging awful.    People are obsessed with pretending that he is not just a terrible qb 

Why does Buchner leaving the team cause you to call Buchner names?

[Mike 685]

7 minutes ago, NDLincPark said:

Why are so many of our fans hung up on this POS buchner? 

He was/is friging awful.    People are obsessed with pretending that he is not just a terrible qb 

You're getting too worked up over this. Keep it in line or step away for a bit and take a break.

[NDLincPark 28]

Wonder if the fan boys still want Buchner under center for 2023