I Wish Obama could do a third term

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Jim2Dokes,

The kind of dumbass that actually gave credit to Obama for the death of Bin Laden. Should we give such Cretins the right to vote?

 

Alright well there is no need for name calling. The people that carried out the mission get the most credit. But yeah he said he was gonna do it and it happened under his command, he is the leader of the military.

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Jim2Dokes is the type of ignorant Buffoon that makes you want to chew the tire off of a truck. You want to say, "Why can't you see the obvious?", but such simpletons, quite frankly, don't have the capacity. It's like explaining Algebra to a two-year old.

 

Please elaborate on the obvious. Please help me understand your wisdom.

[Soko 128]

And not to argue with you but it is eerily similar to Vietnam. This was actually one the comparisons I was shooting for as far as poor policy decisions go in the last 200 years, and the fallout on many levels from it.

 

Funny you should bring up Vietnam because that was a topic of discussion with my MiL just last week. We all agreed it was an awful war but had no long term ramifications due to the fact the war was contained and the USSR broke up just over a decade later. If you visit Vietnam today there is no ill will towards America and there were many veterans visiting the 'Hanoi Hilton' who were made welcome and shown respect.

 

Iraq however has destabilized a pressure cooker region to the point of no return. Saddam was a bad man but he kept a lid on his country and I have no interest in being the world police. Let them sort out their own problems because the alternative is much, much worse i.e. Libya. US or international intervention has never made a country a better place outside of the major world wars.

 

Add on top of the huge problems with the after match that the war to date has cost 2 trillion dollars and rising - over 10% of the US deficit. It is and was a monumental cluster**** and been proven by all sides to be completely wrong and illegal.

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Jim2Dokes, Please, for Christ's sake, STFU. I guess Nixon gets credit for the moon landing given that he was sitting in the White House in 69'. Oh, wait a minute. The world gives Kennedy credit for putting a man on the moon, but how can that be, given that he was killed in 63'? Oh yeah, although Nixon was sitting his fat *** in the White House when they landed on the moon, so no one believed that Nixon had a *ucking thing to do with it. He just happened to be in the White House when NASA could pull the trigger. Sound familair? However, Einsteins like Jim2Dokes can't get get off their knees long enough to,realize what a *ucking joke this ****-ant in the White House is. Ignorance should be a crime, and Jim2Dokes deserves a life sentence.

 

alright, well hope you sleep it off. Have good night

[Jim2Dokes 3]

I hearby disallow the word "wisdom" to be uttered by the Cretin, Jim2Dokes, as the two utterances are completely incompatible within the same sentence.

 

It was retorical because you are drunk or crazy.

[TheRizz 5]

Is this real?! LMAO

[Kelly Gruene 26]

There were terrorist attacks prior to 2008 and have been as long as religion and want for power have existed. Don't fall for the fear trap, it got the country 4 more years of Bush. And we don't control European policies. The state with the biggest Muslim population has yet been victim of a terrorist attack (Illnois), so your logic doesn't add up. All jihadist killing have happened under Obama? No, 911 rings a bell. Fact is Trump saw an opening in republicans before he viewed democrats more positively was for abortion rights ect ect. Oh and let's not even get into all the wives he has had the open marriages and now all of sudden he is born again. My good fortune is simply a reflection of the economy, real estate is high right now and the stock market is high with plenty of jobs out there. In 2005 I was bankrupt and had no job thanks to the republicans. I only have a very modest income but my 401k and investments have done very well. I still can't get a decent interest rate on a car lol.

 

Of course there were terrorist attacks before 2008 (Twin Towers for instance). On the other hand, ISIS didn't exist before 2008, nor had any organization (ISIS) ever taken over entire swaths of two countries (Iraq, Syria) and declared its own caliphate. Nor was the internet used in such a sophisticated way to gain followers.

Nobody here has ever argued that the US controls European policies. However, we do have a situation where one party is wanting to dramatically increase immigration from Middle Eastern countries, and one party wants more screening before allowing just anyone in. I'll be happy to debate with you just how the screening takes place, because I'm sure you'll say that there is already a good vetting process. It is not a good process but perhaps that's another discussion. And, being good partners with Europe, surely there are continuing high level discussions on how the US can increase numbers of Middle Eastern (aka Muslim) immigrants to take some of the strain off of Europe.

Your comment "The state with the biggest Muslim population...(Illnois)..." is not correct by the way. There are no hard statistics about Muslim faith adherents and their locations in this country. One often quoted statistic, the one you referenced (I think it's the one you referenced, from the Pew Research Center), indicates that Illinois has the largest Muslim population per 100,000 people, but in fact Illinois does not have the largest total Muslim population. The state with the largest number of Muslims is California. The state with the largest Muslim percentage (out of the total state population) is Michigan. One way Muslim population is measured is by total number of mosques. There are more mosques in New York, California, Texas, and Florida than Illinois. Two of those states have indeed seen attacks in the last 7 months by individuals claiming association with ISIS, which didn't exist in 2008.

[Kelly Gruene 26]

I think the US is pretty safe regardless of whichever candidate wins. This is not Kabul and what happens in Europe is of little concern to you and pretty much irrelevant to the safety discussion.

 

I'm not sure that you get to tell me what is of concern to me.

Europe is of concern me. While the US cannot and should not control Europe, we do have a lot in common with Europe historically and economically. What happens in Europe is of tremendous concern to what happens to safety in this country. It seems to me that what happens at European airports, shipping and cargot ports, cruise terminals, and any intercontinental business transactions between any European country and the US is, has, and always will be of consequence to the US as potential conduits for any evil-doer of any religion or any belief. What happens in Europe absolutely influences the US, so, I will remain concerned about Europe, thank you very much.

 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/blog/victims/

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-victims-htmlstory.html

 

The victims, each of whom had a mother, a father, and probably brothers, sisters, and children, named in the above-referenced articles all felt that they were safe too. They were just going out to have a good time, either at a club or a party. Their survivors probably don't have the same opinion about the level of safety that exists in this country as you do.

 

And again, while other individuals do from time to time carry out heinous acts, those are the 'lone wolf' individuals. They are not associated with a particular global ideology that is determined to subjugate all who do not bow to their beliefs.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Kelly Gruene

[irishwavend 576]

This thread is ignorant... Clearly the poster never went to ND and is a product of today's public school system. Obama is the worst President in history...literally. Printimg money doesn't make you good at economics. Democrats are only good at economics historically because they reap the benefits of Republican policies. 2008, for example, was directly related to Clinton policies, so Republicans or damaged by ignorant Dems. I could go on and on about Democrats acting like Nazis.... F our ignorant public for screwing up this country and F Hillary who has ZERO qualifications...even less than Obama, if that's possible.

[Jim2Dokes 3]

This thread is ignorant... Clearly the poster never went to ND and is a product of today's public school system. Obama is the worst President in history...literally. Printimg money doesn't make you good at economics. Democrats are only good at economics historically because they reap the benefits of Republican policies. 2008, for example, was directly related to Clinton policies, so Republicans or damaged by ignorant Dems. I could go on and on about Democrats acting like Nazis.... F our ignorant public for screwing up this country and F Hillary who has ZERO qualifications...even less than Obama, if that's possible.

 

You just insulted 95% of this board, I doubt mostly anyone went to ND. You can too call me names, belittle, and make comments with no substance. I have made my conclusion about some of the people on here. Not a very good place to be, a lot of storm front type stuff. It is good that most ND fans are not represented. Anyways my last post, won't have to worry about me anymore. slainte

[LasVegasIrish 0]

You just insulted 95% of this board, I doubt mostly anyone went to ND. You can too call me names, belittle, and make comments with no substance. I have made my conclusion about some of the people on here. Not a very good place to be, a lot of storm front type stuff. It is good that most ND fans are not represented. Anyways my last post, won't have to worry about me anymore. slainte

 

This is exactly why I try to stick to ND sports or sports in general on this forum. Politics or other important life topics are important to talk about, but things always get outta hand. I really hope this isn't your last post Dokes.

[nickman54 0]

OP, got exactly the response he was hoping for when he starts a troll thread and now takes his ball and goes home. Weak sauce Jim. You are better than that.

[VCDomer 68]

If you were to read/study the history of Arabia, Persia, and other lands in the area commonly now referred to as the Middle East, you would almost certainly come to the conclusion that it was a catastrophe long before the Iraq invasion. Taking out Sadam was, in my opinion, the bigger mistake, much like, in my opinion, taking out Asad will be in Syria without a cogent plan in place regarding what comes next.

And I'd love to understand what it means to say 'the die has been cast'. The future of the Middle East is quite uncertain I think. Will moderate Sunni's finally find a way to cast out radical Sunni's? Will Sunni and Shia ever be able to work together in a unified government anywhere? What will happen to the Kurds? Will they ever have their own country? Not if Turkey, Syria, and Iraq have their way. And all of that without the question of Israel.

No, I don't see the die as cast in that part of the world. And if you ever looked closely at the history of that area before and after World War I, you would see that it was the British and French that set the foundation for the political un-evenness that exists there today, not the US. The US and big oil have played a role too, no doubt, but Arabia was already a huge mess long before Ibn al Saud made his deals with the Wahhabis to take control of Arabia.

 

I applaud your thoughts that went into this. There is so much history that has created the foundational issues in this region. It will not change based on who gets elected in November or ever. The prophecies of that region have been fulfilled for centuries before and will for centuries to come.

[VCDomer 68]

It was retorical because you are drunk or crazy.

 

$50 says it's both

[Donjuan 16]

Well I'm glad cooler heads prevailed in this sure-fire dumpster thread. Let this be a lesson for future ones.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

Funny you should bring up Vietnam because that was a topic of discussion with my MiL just last week. We all agreed it was an awful war but had no long term ramifications due to the fact the war was contained and the USSR broke up just over a decade later. If you visit Vietnam today there is no ill will towards America and there were many veterans visiting the 'Hanoi Hilton' who were made welcome and shown respect.

 

Iraq however has destabilized a pressure cooker region to the point of no return. Saddam was a bad man but he kept a lid on his country and I have no interest in being the world police. Let them sort out their own problems because the alternative is much, much worse i.e. Libya. US or international intervention has never made a country a better place outside of the major world wars.

 

Add on top of the huge problems with the after match that the war to date has cost 2 trillion dollars and rising - over 10% of the US deficit. It is and was a monumental cluster**** and been proven by all sides to be completely wrong and illegal.

 

I would disagree about the long term ramifications of the war, especially the way we pulled out of the region and left it destabilized. Pol Pot killed millions in Cambodia, which most likely wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the area. Tens of thousands of South Vietnamese died when the North took over the country. Also one tiny nit, while the Soviet Union did eventually collapse, Vietnamese communism was far more similar to Chinese communism.

[Pregame 291]

Iraq however has destabilized a pressure cooker region to the point of no return. Saddam was a bad man but he kept a lid on his country and I have no interest in being the world police. Let them sort out their own problems because the alternative is much, much worse i.e. Libya. US or international intervention has never made a country a better place outside of the major world wars.

Agree with this, if you take a look at the history of the ME, it's never been a land of traditional nations. Egypt, Turkey and Iran are the only natural states in the ME and even Egypt and Turkey are arguably very much removed from the ME geographically and culturally, if not politically and religiously.

 

The entire ME is a mishmash of tribes of people from different religious backgrounds and cultures being shoehorned under a flag under the same borders and it takes an iron fisted dictator to keep everyone under the semblance of a country.

 

Granted its not ideal as Sadam used some ethically "questionable" tactics to say the least but the man had control over much of Iraq save the Kurdish rebels (who were also a bit more subdued). Not advocating for dictators but if you look at the short history of the ME, they've been "successful" rulers by less ethically motivated metrics.

[jimbo 377]

I would disagree about the long term ramifications of the war, especially the way we pulled out of the region and left it destabilized. Pol Pot killed millions in Cambodia, which most likely wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the area. Tens of thousands of South Vietnamese died when the North took over the country. Also one tiny nit, while the Soviet Union did eventually collapse, Vietnamese communism was far more similar to Chinese communism.

 

Just a few points:

The US pulled out of Vietnam, but we did not leave the region.

 

Sadly, the US government supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

 

The invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam and installation of a VN backed government was the beginning of the end for the murderous Khmer Rouge. For this, Vietnam deserves high praise for stepping up and doing the right thing to end the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge.

[Soko 128]

All I know is a third Obama term would be a lot better than Clinton or Trump. Those two have got to be the worst candidates either party has churned out since Goldwater and they are on the same ballot!

 

It is thoroughly depressing. Talk of a third party will only benefit libertarians which will only detract in kind from republicans... which they probably deserve for serving up that turd Donald Trump.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

Just a few points:

The US pulled out of Vietnam, but we did not leave the region.

 

Sadly, the US government supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

 

The invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam and installation of a VN backed government was the beginning of the end for the murderous Khmer Rouge. For this, Vietnam deserves high praise for stepping up and doing the right thing to end the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge.

 

You're right, my memory was off. Usually I'm better than that, for crying out loud I'm a history major lol. And it also goes to show that we have backed some really crappy governments through the years and still do it to this day.