nickman54 0 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Because it is I'm not saying there aren't serious matters we need to tend to, but climate change is real and it is already having a profound effect on the world Never go full retard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco 0 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Never go full retard! Why is it retarded to accept the evidence that climate change is real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunSlinger 28 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yeah it sucks sometimes. My priorities each shift is to go home as well as the rest of my co-workers, after that I have a hard time really caring much anymore. Baltimore is a perfect example of what happens when the police pull out and let the masses take care of themselves. Just wait and see what will happen in Baltimore once the officers are aquitted of those bogus charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDhoosier 1,229 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Couple things as a cop: 1) I would never use a taser when the subject has a knife in his hand. People think tasers are these infallible weapons that do exactly what we want them to. My taser failed me once and I had to fight a guy for 5 minutes before backup arrived, I would never trust a taser against a man wielding a knife. Also, what would the public say if the cop tasered him and the dirtbag fell on his knife? People who say cops should use tasers in these situations have never had a guy point a knife at them with intent to hurt them. 2) Not sure 16 shots is really that bad. As a cop, if I have the justification to shoot at you with live ammo, I am going to make sure you are no longer a threat to me or anyone around me. If I have the legal justification, it does not really matter how many shots I take in rapid succession. The difference is if I shoot a couple shots, pause, then fail to reassess the threat and fire more shots. But if a guy is coming at me with intent to kill, I will open fire on him and fire until he is down. I can get 16 shots from my pistol off pretty quick. Having said all that, I dont think this was a justified shooting, but not for the reasons many people are saying. The kid was walking parallel to the cops and not toward them and the cop who shot him was only on scene for seconds which leads me to believe he was emotionally charged up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJacksonsDred15 110 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Sorry PJ but these types of incidents happen every week, but the President will only comment on them if it involves a white officer and a black person. It wasn't just that they sprung up in the past year. It was because the media finds it sexy to put forth because it causes a lot of clicks to their websites. It started more or less when Obama came to office and his willingness to comment on anything police and minority related. The press hit him up for an opinion, knowing that he speaks for any and all minorities of course(sarcasm), and he gives his half assed opinion on cue often times without knowing the facts of the case. His comments help to throw gas on the fire and whip everything and everybody into a bigger frenzy. Plain and simple he should keep quiet about it until he is well informed of what happened otherwise he makes himself look like a total asshat, which is great for one portion of the population who values his support but detrimental for many others who believe he should rise above it and reserve judgement until everything is vetted. I understand your point about withholding comments until all the evidence is presented. But the video speaks for itself in this case. Not sure what else you need to see or hear about. And as the first black president, I expect him to be more sensitive to black issues, especially racism since its been a theme of our country since its inception. Similarly, I think I'd find myself more involved with Catholic issues if I were in charge. Personally, the issue of the overreaching of police power is far beyond a race issue, its a national issue that needs to be handled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,281 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I understand your point about withholding comments until all the evidence is presented. But the video speaks for itself in this case. Not sure what else you need to see or hear about. And as the first black president, I expect him to be more sensitive to black issues, especially racism since its been a theme of our country since its inception. Similarly, I think I'd find myself more involved with Catholic issues if I were in charge. Personally, the issue of the overreaching of police power is far beyond a race issue, its a national issue that needs to be handled. But that's just it, the officer has rights too and therefore is entitled to a trial to determine his guilt or innocence. If he's found not guilty or hung jury then what? I have little doubt that the city will pay out for what happened. I'm not going to base my opinion off the video, because there is a lot more that will be brought up at trial. I will let the system determine wht will happen. I understand what you are saying about the first black president being sensitive to those issues. However he has in too many instances picked the wrong horse and spouted off about it without all the facts which is very dangerous and quite frankly very upresidential and not representative of all the people he stands for, not just blacks. I guess you'll have to clarify the overreaching police powers you are conflicted about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianIrish 0 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Whether it was overreaction or not, I hate that in events like this the man doing the shooting just gets labeled as "a cop". I am not a cop, I have no police officers in my family, but I feel absolutely awful for what they as a group are going through lately. From what I can tell, it is a DAMN TOUGH JOB. Constantly second guessed and trashed by people that likely have no idea what training has gone into dealing with difficult situations, insulted and underappreciated by the same dumb shits that are likely first to overreact and call them for help when the slightest thing goes wrong in their life. They deal with morons, dangerous offenders, and the scum of the earth on a daily basis for what I feel is less than adequate compensation. Did this guy shoot the kid too many times? Maybe. I HAVE NO IDEA. I've never been trained to deal with a doped out man with a knife. Have you???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDhoosier 1,229 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Whether it was overreaction or not, I hate that in events like this the man doing the shooting just gets labeled as "a cop". I am not a cop, I have no police officers in my family, but I feel absolutely awful for what they as a group are going through lately. From what I can tell, it is a DAMN TOUGH JOB. Constantly second guessed and trashed by people that likely have no idea what training has gone into dealing with difficult situations, insulted and underappreciated by the same dumb shits that are likely first to overreact and call them for help when the slightest thing goes wrong in their life. They deal with morons, dangerous offenders, and the scum of the earth on a daily basis for what I feel is less than adequate compensation. Did this guy shoot the kid too many times? Maybe. I HAVE NO IDEA. I've never been trained to deal with a doped out man with a knife. Have you???? The other big thing is cops have to make decisions in seconds while the public and protesters have months to look at something without being in harms way. I wish more people thought like you, but ignorance of police work is running rampant right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 768 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I've never been trained to deal with a doped out man with a knife. Have you???? I have...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgov12 1,237 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Another good example of our president and his selective involvement in shootings and killings in his hometown. An arrest was made today in the case of the 9 year old that was brutally murdered in a gang killing in chicago. A black man was arrested in this crime. Has anyone seen an obama statement for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,281 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Another good example of our president and his selective involvement in shootings and killings in his hometown. An arrest was made today in the case of the 9 year old that was brutally murdered in a gang killing in chicago. A black man was arrested in this crime. Has anyone seen an obama statement for this? You won't at all. Just like it won't come up in his anti-gun rhetoric. If it involves a white person and gun violence he'll yap about the matter all day long and how there needs to be more gun laws etc to prevent gun deaths. Which let's face fact, many of those gun related incidents involve legally owned guns which were used in those appalling crimes. However in my experience and I'm certain other agencies statistics would prove out, a proportionately larger number of guns used in black related gun violence are already illegally possessed by the offender either because they legally couldn't own/possess a firearm or the firearm itself was obtained through illegal means(theft, etc). Basically he can't comment on black on black gun violence because it doesn't fit the agenda he's trying to put forth. Gun control in that environment doesn't work, and the murder rates and gun violence stats for Chicago and other cities with strict gun control prove that. But hey let's keep the idea alive that the police and crazy gun carrying white people are the biggest threats to the lives of black community in this country. I feel that the President has squandered a golden opportunity during his time in office to address issues of violence within the urban black communities around the country, and I'm definitely not alone in that sentiment. Honestly I don't think he's able to connect and figure out how to change the violent gangster culture. But as usual it's the police on the front lines who have to deal with it when sh*t hits the fan and try to solve all of societies ills, instead of lawmakers and other people in power who could actually make sustainable positive changes in these communities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickman54 0 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Why is it retarded to accept the evidence that climate change is real? Lol........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim2Dokes 3 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Lol........... http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-07/24/10/enhanced/webdr02/anigif_enhanced-buzz-8492-1406211576-5.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgov12 1,237 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 You won't at all. Just like it won't come up in his anti-gun rhetoric. If it involves a white person and gun violence he'll yap about the matter all day long and how there needs to be more gun laws etc to prevent gun deaths. Which let's face fact, many of those gun related incidents involve legally owned guns which were used in those appalling crimes. However in my experience and I'm certain other agencies statistics would prove out, a proportionately larger number of guns used in black related gun violence are already illegally possessed by the offender either because they legally couldn't own/possess a firearm or the firearm itself was obtained through illegal means(theft, etc). Basically he can't comment on black on black gun violence because it doesn't fit the agenda he's trying to put forth. Gun control in that environment doesn't work, and the murder rates and gun violence stats for Chicago and other cities with strict gun control prove that. But hey let's keep the idea alive that the police and crazy gun carrying white people are the biggest threats to the lives of black community in this country. I feel that the President has squandered a golden opportunity during his time in office to address issues of violence within the urban black communities around the country, and I'm definitely not alone in that sentiment. Honestly I don't think he's able to connect and figure out how to change the violent gangster culture. But as usual it's the police on the front lines who have to deal with it when sh*t hits the fan and try to solve all of societies ills, instead of lawmakers and other people in power who could actually make sustainable positive changes in these communities. I agree 100%. I actually thought going into obamas presidency that he would attempt to take a stand on black on black crime, but it's been the complete opposite. It's no coincidence that race relations in this country are the worst they've been since the 60's and you dont need to look any further than our leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieAngel 508 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 2) Not sure 16 shots is really that bad. As a cop, if I have the justification to shoot at you with live ammo, I am going to make sure you are no longer a threat to me or anyone around me. If I have the legal justification, it does not really matter how many shots I take in rapid succession. The difference is if I shoot a couple shots, pause, then fail to reassess the threat and fire more shots. But if a guy is coming at me with intent to kill, I will open fire on him and fire until he is down. I can get 16 shots from my pistol off pretty quick. That's it. In for a penny in for a pound. All of the talk of incapacitating shots or shooting less are immaterial. When the decision has been made to use lethal force it really doesn't matter how much you use as long as the job is done. Shooting him four times and having him get up and stab you doesn't help. As long as it isn't stupid like rolling him over and shooting him in the face for fun after he stops moving it is what it is. Right or wrong of this particular incident aside, this isn't a movie shoot until you are absolutely sure they are dead if you are going to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Do you guys think Van Dyke will be convicted of first degree murder? Since McDonald was high on PCP and carrying a knife there was a threat so I don't see how he could be convicted given "self defense" (I know from video McDonald never moved towards Van Dyke but he punctured a cop car tire and damaged its windshield...i.e a threat). Is there a crime for excessive force given the 16 shots? I have no idea but seems like that would be more successful. Outside of the law, I do think Van Dyke was excessive. The big hangup is the 16 shots. I don't have a problem with shooting him since I believe they'd been following him for a while...just like spike strips that take out a car you gotta shoot to take him out BEFORE he hurts someone. I've never shot a gun but ripping off 16 shots seems more like anger than self defense especially when McDonald is just lying there not moving after shot 1. AND Van Dyke was the only officer to shoot. And was reloading before he was told to hold fire. Basically, I think this would be a non story if he woulda shot 4-5 times and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,281 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Do you guys think Van Dyke will be convicted of first degree murder? Since McDonald was high on PCP and carrying a knife there was a threat so I don't see how he could be convicted given "self defense" (I know from video McDonald never moved towards Van Dyke but he punctured a cop car tire and damaged its windshield...i.e a threat). Is there a crime for excessive force given the 16 shots? I have no idea but seems like that would be more successful. Outside of the law, I do think Van Dyke was excessive. The big hangup is the 16 shots. I don't have a problem with shooting him since I believe they'd been following him for a while...just like spike strips that take out a car you gotta shoot to take him out BEFORE he hurts someone. I've never shot a gun but ripping off 16 shots seems more like anger than self defense especially when McDonald is just lying there not moving after shot 1. AND Van Dyke was the only officer to shoot. And was reloading before he was told to hold fire. Basically, I think this would be a non story if he woulda shot 4-5 times and that's it. It would be a non-story if he was white and the same thing happened. Nary a word would come of it except in the local or regional coverage. Like i said before, I'll let the system decide his fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) It would be a non-story if he was white and the same thing happened. Nary a word would come of it except in the local or regional coverage. Like i said before, I'll let the system decide his fate. Very true. A 60 year old black man just shot and killed a 13 year old black kid for breaking into his car...in St Louis too. No charges due to "castle law". Only a few local articles... https://www.rt.com/usa/324124-boy-shooting-charges-stealing/ Edited December 2, 2015 by DTCBND03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDhoosier 1,229 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 That's it. In for a penny in for a pound. All of the talk of incapacitating shots or shooting less are immaterial. When the decision has been made to use lethal force it really doesn't matter how much you use as long as the job is done. Shooting him four times and having him get up and stab you doesn't help. As long as it isn't stupid like rolling him over and shooting him in the face for fun after he stops moving it is what it is. Right or wrong of this particular incident aside, this isn't a movie shoot until you are absolutely sure they are dead if you are going to shoot. Agreed, and I am not saying this officer is 100% innocent, but the number of shots is being blown out of proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious_ND 0 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If that was my son I don't think I'd consider the shooting justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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