Global Warming

[piratey 6]

Lots of places are colder than average. Lots of places are warmer than average. Some places are setting records in either extreme. This happens every year.

 

It doesn't change the fact that average global temperatures are increasing.

 

Also, just so we're on the same page (from NASA):

 

 

 

We're talking about climate change, not weather patterns.

 

$1.8 billion was given to NASA to revamp climate sensors.

 

Check this out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/nasa-global-warming-letter-astronauts_n_1418017.html

"We believe the claims by NASA and GISS [NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies], that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data," the group wrote. "With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled."

 

The group features some marquee names, including Michael F. Collins, Walter Cunningham and five other Apollo astronauts, as well as two former directors of NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston.

 

The letter:

The full text of the letter:

 

March 28, 2012

 

The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.

NASA Administrator

NASA Headquarters

Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

 

Dear Charlie,

 

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.

 

The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.

 

As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.

 

For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.

 

Thank you for considering this request.

 

Sincerely,

 

(Attached signatures)

 

CC: Mr. John Grunsfeld, Associate Administrator for Science

 

CC: *** Mr. Chris Scolese, Director, Goddard Space Flight Center

 

Ref: Letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, dated 3-26-12, regarding a request for NASA to refrain from making unsubstantiated claims that human produced CO2 is having a catastrophic impact on climate change.

 

/s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack – JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years

 

/s/ Larry Bell – JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years

 

/s/ Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years

 

/s/ Jerry C. Bostick – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years

 

/s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years

 

/s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years

 

/s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years

 

/s/ Walter Cunningham – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years

 

/s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years

 

/s/ Leroy Day – Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years

 

/s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years

 

/s/Charles F. Deiterich – JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years

 

/s/ Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years

 

/s/ Charles Duke – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years

 

/s/ Anita Gale

 

/s/ Grace Germany – JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years

 

/s/ Ed Gibson – JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years

 

/s/ Richard Gordon – JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years

 

/s/ Gerald C. Griffin – JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years

 

/s/ Thomas M. Grubbs – JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years

 

/s/ Thomas J. Harmon

 

/s/ David W. Heath – JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years

 

/s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. – JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years

 

/s/ James R. Roundtree – JSC Branch Chief, 26 years

 

/s/ Enoch Jones – JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years

 

/s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years

 

/s/ Jack Knight – JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years

 

/s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years

 

/s/ Paul C. Kramer – JSC, ***.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years

 

/s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen

 

/s/ Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years

 

/s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years

 

/s/ Donald K. McCutchen – JSC, Project Engineer – Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years

 

/s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser – Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years

 

/s/ Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years

 

/s/ Tom Ohesorge

 

/s/ James Peacock – JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years

 

/s/ Richard McFarland – JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years

 

/s/ Joseph E. Rogers – JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate,40 years

 

/s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum – JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years

 

/s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years

 

/s/ Gerard C. Shows – JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years

 

/s/ Kenneth Suit – JSC, Ass’t Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years

 

/s/ Robert F. Thompson – JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years/s/ Frank Van Renesselaer – Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years

 

/s/ Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years

 

/s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried – JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years

 

/s/ George Weisskopf – JSC, Avionics Systems Division, Engineering Dir., 40 years

 

/s/ Al Worden – JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 15, 9 years

 

/s/ Thomas (Tom) Wysmuller – JSC, Meteorologist, 5 years

 

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-climate-change-2012-4#ixzz2nqlfaECc

[corysold 0]

Lots of places are colder than average. Lots of places are warmer than average. Some places are setting records in either extreme. This happens every year.

 

It doesn't change the fact that average global temperatures are increasing.

 

Also, just so we're on the same page (from NASA):

 

 

 

We're talking about climate change, not weather patterns.

 

Right, but even in terms of "climate" 20 years is barely a blip on the radar, yet it is this amount of time being used to suggest events that may take dozens, if not hundreds, or years to measure accurately.

 

On top of that, when the things scientists expect to happen, don't actually happen, such as sea ice melt...

 

Antarctic sea ice has grown to a record large extent for a second straight year, baffling scientists seeking to understand why this ice is expanding rather than shrinking in a warming world.

 

On Saturday, the ice extent reached 19.51 million square kilometers, according to data posted on the National Snow and Ice Data Center Web site. That number bested record high levels set earlier this month and in 2012 (of 19.48 million square kilometers). Records date back to October 1978.

 

...it doesn't seem to matter. Hurricane landfalls are down, despite scientists suggesting otherwise. Hurricane intensities are down, despite scientists suggesting otherwise. Antarctic and Arctic sea ice is increasing, despite scientists suggesting otherwise.

 

So when all of these things happen, against what was predicted, that for some reason means nothing.

 

I don't deny that global temps may be higher now then they were 20 or 50 years ago, but there is little evidence to suggest they are at all-time highs for the planet. Despite this, scientists want to say with 95% certainty that humans have caused the warming, despite many of their predictions being incorrect to this point.

[piratey 6]

Right, but even in terms of "climate" 20 years is barely a blip on the radar, yet it is this amount of time being used to suggest events that may take dozens, if not hundreds, or years to measure accurately.

 

On top of that, when the things scientists expect to happen, don't actually happen, such as sea ice melt...

 

 

 

...it doesn't seem to matter. Hurricane landfalls are down, despite scientists suggesting otherwise. Hurricane intensities are down, despite scientists suggesting otherwise. Antarctic and Arctic sea ice is increasing, despite scientists suggesting otherwise.

 

So when all of these things happen, against what was predicted, that for some reason means nothing.

 

I don't deny that global temps may be higher now then they were 20 or 50 years ago, but there is little evidence to suggest they are at all-time highs for the planet. Despite this, scientists want to say with 95% certainty that humans have caused the warming, despite many of their predictions being incorrect to this point.

 

"Records date back to October 1978" is what makes me laugh.

 

They have so much invested in global warming now, they pushed all their chips to the middle of the table seven years ago after Al Gore's "documentary." Their careers literally are based on the belief that there is man made global warming. They have tried tirelessly to squelch any dissenting opinions and the egg is now all over their face. This could get very messy

[piratey 6]

Wow Reddit. Wow.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/18/reddit-bans-comments-from-global-warming-skeptics/

[J.P. 0]

I am not going to even pretend that I have any knowledge on this subject this was just on my Yahoo front page and I have been lurking this thread and thought it was amusing. I will say I am not a believer of the climate change or global warming.

 

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/outposts/post/message-in-a-bottle-reveals-fact-about-glacier/

[nd1baby 0]

I am not going to even pretend that I have any knowledge on this subject this was just on my Yahoo front page and I have been lurking this thread and thought it was amusing. I will say I am not a believer of the climate change or global warming.

 

http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/outposts/post/message-in-a-bottle-reveals-fact-about-glacier/

 

LOL. The comments on the article are a replay of this thread but a lot more funny.

[piratey 6]

Irony. GLOBAL WARMING SCIENTISTS TRAPPED IN ANTARCTIC ICE

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2013/12/28/msm-glosses-over-irony-global-warming-scientists-trapped-antarctic-ice#ixzz2ovITxKYv

[mcdougal93 0]

Irony. GLOBAL WARMING SCIENTISTS TRAPPED IN ANTARCTIC ICE

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/pj-gladnick/2013/12/28/msm-glosses-over-irony-global-warming-scientists-trapped-antarctic-ice#ixzz2ovITxKYv

 

It would be a shame if they're hospitalized for frostbite.

[Pregame 291]

The Earth was smashed by a meteor covering our entire atmosphere in ash. Caused one of our ice ages and likely cause for the extinction of the dinosaurs (******* meteorite). Mother Nature righted the ship and the climate shifted back to "normal". Lesson of the day? Trust Mother Nature to keep things on equilibrium more than you trust posters on an internet message board.

[ND3 0]

The Earth was smashed by a meteor covering our entire atmosphere in ash. Caused one of our ice ages and likely cause for the extinction of the dinosaurs (******* meteorite). Mother Nature righted the ship and the climate shifted back to "normal". Lesson of the day? Trust Mother Nature to keep things on equilibrium more than you trust posters on an internet message board.

 

Mother Nature will take care of things with or without us. I'd just prefer it be with us.

[piratey 6]

Some interesting little quotes. By the way, -17 out in Michigan, -40 wind chill this morning. Coldest weather I've ever experience...

 

Last night Professor Judith Curry, head of climate science at Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, said the leaked summary showed that ‘the science is clearly not settled, and is in a state of flux’.

 

She said it therefore made no sense that the IPCC was claiming that its confidence in its forecasts and conclusions has increased.

 

For example, in the new report, the IPCC says it is ‘extremely likely’ – 95 per cent certain – that human influence caused more than half the temperature rises from 1951 to 2010, up from ‘very confident’ – 90 per cent certain – in 2007.

 

Prof Curry said: ‘This is incompre

 

A forecast in the 2007 report that hurricanes would become more intense has simply been dropped, without mention.

This year has been one of the quietest hurricane seasons in history and the US is currently enjoying its longest-ever period – almost eight years – without a single hurricane of Category 3 or above making landfall.

 

The IPCC admits that while computer models forecast a decline in Antarctic sea ice, it has actually grown to a new record high. Again, the IPCC cannot say why.

 

The leaked report makes the extraordinary concession that the world has been warming at only just over half the rate claimed by the IPCC in its last assessment, published in 2007.

Back then, it said that the planet was warming at a rate of 0.2C every decade – a figure it claimed was in line with the forecasts made by computer climate models.

 

But the new report says the true figure since 1951 has been only 0.12C per decade – a rate far below even the lowest computer prediction.

The 31-page ‘summary for policymakers’ is based on a more technical 2,000-page analysis which will be issued at the same time. It also surprisingly reveals: IPCC scientists accept their forecast computers may have exaggerated the effect of increased carbon emissions on world temperatures – and not taken enough notice of natural variability.

They recognise the global warming ‘pause’ first reported by The Mail on Sunday last year is real – and concede that their computer models did not predict it. But they cannot explain why world average temperatures have not shown any statistically significant increase since 1997.

They admit large parts of the world were as warm as they are now for decades at a time between 950 and 1250 AD – centuries before the Industrial Revolution, and when the population and CO2 levels were both much lower.

[Parseghians theorem 0]

piratey, did that theory only talk anout intensity of hurricanes?

maybe the theory wasnt aimed at frequency or whether they make landfall?

 

just seems the caveats they mention arent tied to instensity. and if they are they downplay the oroginal theory with other non-related criteria such as if they made land fall?

[corysold 0]

piratey, did that theory only talk anout intensity of hurricanes?

maybe the theory wasnt aimed at frequency or whether they make landfall?

 

just seems the caveats they mention arent tied to instensity. and if they are they downplay the oroginal theory with other non-related criteria such as if they made land fall?

 

This has already been discussed in this thread. Both intensity and landfalls are down since the 40's-60's.

[Parseghians theorem 0]

This has already been discussed in this thread. Both intensity and landfalls are down since the 40's-60's.

 

thanks. admittedly hadnt been reading every post. my apologies.

[chirodomer 47]

I'm all for air scrubbers on coal fired plants bc I do breathe easier. (My own experience) I'm also a big believer in not using our oceans as dumping grounds. The amount of trash in the Pacific is sickening. Also, who can get behind allowing the Japanese dumping Fukushima in the water, even those internet maps are water flow maps.

[Parseghians theorem 0]

Ive read some stuff that the sample size to prove global warming is very small.

then why are those same people trying to use even a smaller sample size (this weeks extreme cold) to debunk it all.

 

also, doesnt global warming include more violent extremes as well?

extreme hots and colds?

 

have spent tons of time with this topic. but you cant discredit an argument that you yourself are using to prove your point.

[piratey 6]

Ive read some stuff that the sample size to prove global warming is very small.

then why are those same people trying to use even a smaller sample size (this weeks extreme cold) to debunk it all.

 

also, doesnt global warming include more violent extremes as well?

extreme hots and colds?

 

have spent tons of time with this topic. but you cant discredit an argument that you yourself are using to prove your point.

 

I don't think anyone is using this week as a sample size? Unless of course, you're referring to the record ice growth being posting in the arctic. Or maybe the fact this week is the coldest in recorded history? Or maybe the fact we recorded the coldest temp in human history this year(it was at the south pole FYI)?

 

I think the bigger point is there has been no warming over the last 16 years.

[Parseghians theorem 0]

I don't think anyone is using this week as a sample size? Unless of course, you're referring to the record ice growth being posting in the arctic. Or maybe the fact this week is the coldest in recorded history? Or maybe the fact we recorded the coldest temp in human history this year(it was at the south pole FYI)?

 

I think the bigger point is there has been no warming over the last 16 years.

 

Is 16 years A VERY SMALL sample size in relation to their earth's life?

[corysold 0]

Is 16 years A VERY SMALL sample size in relation to their earth's life?

 

Against the 30 they've been measuring this warming trend?

[ND3 0]

Page 1 of this thread- from piratey

 

The existence and extent of a Little Ice Age from roughly 1500 to 1850 is supported by a wide variety of evidence including ice cores, tree rings, borehole temperatures, glacier length records, and historical documents. But nothing but "educated" guesses as far as actual temps go...

 

We have climate data for more than 30 years. These things are used to determine what the climate was hundreds or thousands of years ago.

 

We aren't talking about a 30-year blip. We're talking about major climate change over the course of many years.