Is anyone on here sick of sports?

[The Duke 0]

a shame an interesting topic gets sidetracked over a "steroids in baseball" argument. irony is that it confirms a lot of Colin's sentiments. ColinKSU: i think you are on to something.

 

i think many feel overwhelmed by all the media outlets (TV, radio, internet, twitter etc) that are so ubiquitous and part of our mental DNA.

 

and its not just "on our own time" but at work as well. (100's of emails a day etc).

 

i pretty much only watch the following sports/sporting events:

 

ND football games

Hoops Final Four (especially first 4 days of tourney)

NHL playoffs

Golf Majors

NFL (regular season for my fav team; playoffs for all)

 

events i ALWAYS used to watch that i just cant anymore for many of the reasons you stated:

 

MLB (regular season and playoffs)

NBA (regular season and playoffs)

NHL (regular season)

NFL (regular season)

college hoops (regular season)

 

and lastly i am unable to stomach espn anymore. and its not because of the "anti-ND" thing. its just too much for my taste. Bristol has run amock...

[mcdougal93 0]

a shame an interesting topic gets sidetracked over a "steroids in baseball" argument. irony is that it confirms a lot of Colin's sentiments. ColinKSU: i think you are on to something.

 

i think many feel overwhelmed by all the media outlets (TV, radio, internet, twitter etc) that are so ubiquitous and part of our mental DNA.

 

and its not just "on our own time" but at work as well. (100's of emails a day etc).

 

i pretty much only watch the following sports/sporting events:

 

ND football games

Hoops Final Four (especially first 4 days of tourney)

NHL playoffs

Golf Majors

NFL (regular season for my fav team; playoffs for all)

 

events i ALWAYS used to watch that i just cant anymore for many of the reasons you stated:

 

MLB (regular season and playoffs)

NBA (regular season and playoffs)

NHL (regular season)

NFL (regular season)

college hoops (regular season)

 

and lastly i am unable to stomach espn anymore. and its not because of the "anti-ND" thing. its just too much for my taste. Bristol has run amock...

 

This is almost exactly what I've been doing. I watch cfb, hockey playoffs, few nfl games, but lately I've getting into rugby. I hardly ever watch espn now. I watch history channel, natgeo, travel channel, DIY, more. Been reading a lot more and doing more stuff around the house.

 

The constant negative stories on sports has made me withdraw from them.

[Irish_Convert 1]

Personally, I've slowly burned out over time. I've always been primarily a baseball and football fan. Yankees fan since '67, Cowboys fan '71. I started following the 76ers when Dr. J joined them after the ABA merged with the NBA. I didn't really follow college football closely until I moved to the area and eventually became an Irish fan.

 

Basketball was the first to go for me. I wasn't the biggest fan to begin with but I grew tired of ridiculous salaries, thuggish players and garbage fundamentals. I tuned out in '99.

 

Baseball died a very slow death for me. The players' strike in '81 was the first blow. The '94 strike was the next. Then exorbitant salaries. I never had a problem with free agency when it came to be but in the last twenty years so many players just jumped for the biggest paycheck. No or at least lessened team loyalty. I wasn't a big fan of bringing A-Rod on board with the Yankees when it happened because I never cared for him and didn't think any player was worth the money he was getting. I was pretty much done by '05. Then you had the steroid scandals and that sealed the deal.

 

I haven't reached that point with the NFL but I'm getting there because of some of the same issues with MLB. Then there are the rule changes that are clearly geared toward making it a more offensive, high scoring game and I'm a defense oriented type of fan. Roughing the passer because a DE's finger brushes the QB's helmet? Really?

 

College football? Well, even though I didn't follow it as much then, sometimes I believe it would be better to turn back the hands of time maybe 30, 40 years. While I believe that ND and many other programs do their best to maintain the tradition of the true student athlete, it's very much a business now. Many kids choose schools that they believe will give them the best opportunity in the pros. Many coaches look to move up in the ranks and chase paychecks.

 

On the whole, I would say money has ruined most sports in general and I hate it. It's not that it hasn't always had an influence but not to the degree that it does today. Some teams basically blackmail their host cities into new stadiums with the threat of moving. The people that would go to the games end up paying for them at least to some extent but many are priced out when the new venues are built. Stadium names that used to have some kind of local, historical influence are now associated with some corporation for a fee. Far too often, peanuts, Cracker Jack and hot dogs were replaced by steakhouses, $10 burgers, other gourmet food and gift shops. Player unions representing individuals that even on the low end make more than five, six times the average person while working a seasonal job justify strikes by saying that they're regular guys just trying to feed their families or get paid like they deserve to be.

 

Ugh. /End rant.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Irish_Convert

[piratey 6]

Well, I didn't realize that team results mattered in discussing best hitter, but anyway.

 

Besides, Trout is on pace at this point to top his numbers in every category from last year except batting average. Even taking into account he missed 20 games or so at the start of last year, he is still ahead of pace in most numbers. So he started a bit slow this year, but his is still having a pretty great season.

 

Now, if you want to talk about best hitters by age 30, Pujols blows Cabrera away, and it really isn't even close. At age 30, Pujols had:

 

73 more HR than Miggy.

50 more RBI.

.331 vs. .320 BA

30 more doubles

Slugging % more than .6 higher.

 

Or his totals after 11 years are: .328 445 HR 1329 RBI .617 SLG , dramatically higher than your boy.

 

And that is all in one less season at that age. So we have to expect Miggy to have a similar slow down in production as Pujols, which most guys do as they get older, especially guys of Miggy's body type, unless he is getting "help".

 

So in conclusion, Cabrera, great hitter, but won't be the best at age 30, or the best at career's end.

 

Miggy's body type isn't what it was 2-3 years ago...Watch him play. He's not the heavy set guy he was in 2007-2011

 

Oh and the HR numbers? heh.

Busch

http://www.baseballfielddimensions.net/wp-content/uploads/busch-stadium-dimensions.gif

Comerica

http://www.baseballfielddimensions.net/wp-content/uploads/comerica-park-dimensions.gif

 

We'll trend Miggy after this and next season, so the ages match up.

 

Also, you're completely discounting health into the equation. Albert Puljos has spent each of the last 4 seasons injured...Including having plantar fasciitis, which will plague him for the rest of his career. Puljos slow down is caused by injuries. Miguel gave up drinking 3 years ago and has completely rededicated his mind and body to the game. He's never had a serious injury or spent time on the DL

Hank Aaron had his best season at 37 and as the man to chase, had 413HR, 1137RBI, 0.287BA in the 12 years after age 30.

 

All of the best hitters in history didn't just hit 30 and fall of the map. Like I said, Hank's best year was 37 and he had basically matched each season until he hit 40. Ted Williams NEVER slowed down. Micky Mantel slowed down after 32 but he took AWFUL care of himself...Stan Musial was productive into his 40s. Do I ever need to mention Pete Rose? I mean come on.

Edited May 29, 2013 by piratey

[corysold 0]

Miggy's body type isn't what it was 2-3 years ago...Watch him play. He's not the heavy set guy he was in 2007-2011

 

Oh and the HR numbers? heh.

Busch

http://www.baseballfielddimensions.net/wp-content/uploads/busch-stadium-dimensions.gif

Comerica

http://www.baseballfielddimensions.net/wp-content/uploads/comerica-park-dimensions.gif

 

We'll trend Miggy after this and next season, so the ages match up.

 

Also, you're completely discounting health into the equation. Albert Puljos has spent each of the last 4 seasons injured...Including having plantar fasciitis, which will plague him for the rest of his career. Puljos slow down is caused by injuries. Miguel gave up drinking 3 years ago and has completely rededicated his mind and body to the game. He's never had a serious injury or spent time on the DL

Hank Aaron had his best season at 37 and as the man to chase, had 413HR, 1137RBI, 0.287BA in the 12 years after age 30.

 

All of the best hitters in history didn't just hit 30 and fall of the map. Like I said, Hank's best year was 37 and he had basically matched each season until he hit 40. Ted Williams NEVER slowed down. Micky Mantel slowed down after 32 but he took AWFUL care of himself...Stan Musial was productive into his 40s. Do I ever need to mention Pete Rose? I mean come on.

 

Right, surely it is possible that Cabrera can continue this torrid pace well into his 30's. It just isn't the norm. I mean, you basically named the best 5 or 6 hitters of all time as examples. I could find 100's of examples of guys who were amazing until 32-34, then slowed and were done by 38.

 

Now, obviously if Miggy joins that former group and keeps this up for 6-7 more years, he will join the elite group of best hitters ever. There is just no guarantee that is going to happen.

 

At this point, he is in the discussion of best hitters ever through age 31, with guys like Aaron, Mays, Ott, Pujols, Frank Robinson etc.

 

Look at a guy like Robinson, career year at age 30, won the triple crown, then only had 100 RBI's again once the rest of his career. So guys can just fall off the map after 30.

 

So I guess we'll have to agree that Cabrera has had one of the best 5-6 careers up to his current point of any right handed hitter. We'll have to wait 7 more years to judge his entire career.

[piratey 6]

Right, surely it is possible that Cabrera can continue this torrid pace well into his 30's. It just isn't the norm. I mean, you basically named the best 5 or 6 hitters of all time as examples. I could find 100's of examples of guys who were amazing until 32-34, then slowed and were done by 38.

 

Now, obviously if Miggy joins that former group and keeps this up for 6-7 more years, he will join the elite group of best hitters ever. There is just no guarantee that is going to happen.

 

At this point, he is in the discussion of best hitters ever through age 31, with guys like Aaron, Mays, Ott, Pujols, Frank Robinson etc.

 

Look at a guy like Robinson, career year at age 30, won the triple crown, then only had 100 RBI's again once the rest of his career. So guys can just fall off the map after 30.

 

So I guess we'll have to agree that Cabrera has had one of the best 5-6 careers up to his current point of any right handed hitter. We'll have to wait 7 more years to judge his entire career.

 

Frank Robinson isn't the same mold of Miggy, he wasn't an "average" guy. Hitting over .315 only 4 times by age 30, compared to Miggy's 8 times? That's my point, watch:

Number of times hitting over .315 before 30:

Miggy- 8

Robinson- 4

Gehrig- 6

Ted Williams- 8(He only had 8 seasons to do so because he fought in WWII)

Mel Ott- 7

Hank Aaron- 8

Willie Mays- 5

Albert Puljos- 8

 

 

I would also like to point out, none of those players had to switch leagues midway through their 20s, which was his low water mark of .292, 37HR(lead league) 127RBIs.

 

And you're saying through age 31, when he turned 30 in April...if Miggy ends up winning the triple crown this season, or even captures the batting title, he'll have a better resume through age 30 than any other right handed hitter in baseball, be it two straight triple crowns or three straight batting titles.

 

Health ultimately brought Albert down. But it was something that started in 2008 and finally started catching up to him

Edited May 29, 2013 by piratey

[Rocketsan 773]

Health ultimately brought Albert down. But it was something that started in 2008 and finally started catching up to him

 

Steroids brought him down...

[corysold 0]

Frank Robinson isn't the same mold of Miggy, he wasn't an "average" guy. Hitting over .315 only 4 times by age 30, compared to Miggy's 8 times? That's my point, watch:

Number of times hitting over .315 before 30:

Miggy- 8

Robinson- 4

Gehrig- 6

Ted Williams- 8(He only had 8 seasons to do so because he fought in WWII)

Mel Ott- 7

Hank Aaron- 8

Willie Mays- 5

Albert Puljos- 8

 

 

I would also like to point out, none of those players had to switch leagues midway through their 20s, which was his low water mark of .292, 37HR(lead league) 127RBIs.

 

And you're saying through age 31, when he turned 30 in April...if Miggy ends up winning the triple crown this season, or even captures the batting title, he'll have a better resume through age 30 than any other right handed hitter in baseball, be it two straight triple crowns or three straight batting titles.

 

Health ultimately brought Albert down. But it was something that started in 2008 and finally started catching up to him

 

Ok, I'll break down and say that Cabrera is potentially on pace to become in the best 3 RH hitters of all-time. But his numbers don't compare to Pujols at age 30.

 

By 30 Pujols had:

 

6 40 HR seasons - Miggy 1 (And let's not start on the "park factor", neither Comerica or Busch shows up on either extreme of Bill James park numbers in any substantial category).

 

120 RBI seasons - Pujols 6 - MC 3 Even though RBI are somewhat attributable to the surrounding lineup.

 

.330 seasons Pujols 5 - MC 3 and trending that way this season.

 

Total HR - Pujols 408 - MC 335

Total RBI - Pujols 1230 - MC 1180

Batting Avg. Pujols .331 - MC .320

Slugging % - Pujols .624 - MC .564

On Base % - Pujols .426 - MC .397

K's - Pujols 646 - MC 1139

2B - Pujols 426 - MC 399

 

There isn't a single category in which MC betters Pujols at 30.

 

Now, if you want to argue that batting titles and triple crowns mean more than raw numbers, then I suppose we can discuss that. Those are somewhat arbitrary in my opinion, but I'd listen to a discussion of the topic.

[Scotty88 0]

how can anyone accomplish a rare feat during the steroid era and be thought of as 100% clean?

[piratey 6]

Ok, I'll break down and say that Cabrera is potentially on pace to become in the best 3 RH hitters of all-time. But his numbers don't compare to Pujols at age 30.

 

By 30 Pujols had:

 

6 40 HR seasons - Miggy 1 (And let's not start on the "park factor", neither Comerica or Busch shows up on either extreme of Bill James park numbers in any substantial category).

 

120 RBI seasons - Pujols 6 - MC 3 Even though RBI are somewhat attributable to the surrounding lineup.

 

.330 seasons Pujols 5 - MC 3 and trending that way this season.

 

Total HR - Pujols 408 - MC 335

Total RBI - Pujols 1230 - MC 1180

Batting Avg. Pujols .331 - MC .320

Slugging % - Pujols .624 - MC .564

On Base % - Pujols .426 - MC .397

K's - Pujols 646 - MC 1139

2B - Pujols 426 - MC 399

 

There isn't a single category in which MC betters Pujols at 30.

 

Now, if you want to argue that batting titles and triple crowns mean more than raw numbers, then I suppose we can discuss that. Those are somewhat arbitrary in my opinion, but I'd listen to a discussion of the topic.

 

BY age 30. Miguel is 30 this year. You're cheating with your stats dude. So if we went through 29...

Total HR - Pujols 366 - Miggy 321

Total RBI - Pujols 1112 - Miggy - 1123

Batting Average - Pujols .333 Miggy - .318

2B- Pujols - 387 Miggy - 386

 

If you use ESPN's estimated totals for miggy this year(crap shoot, i know)

it goes by 30:

Total HR - Pujols 408 - MC 366

Total RBI - Pujols 1230 - MC 1308

Batting Avg. Pujols .331 - MC .323

Slugging % - Pujols .624 - MC .576

On Base % - Pujols .426 - MC .404

K's - Pujols 646 - MC 1211

2B - Pujols 426 - MC 428

 

But you're completely ignoring the point about Albert and his injuries. He peaked at 28,29,30 and after that, he's fallen off the map. Rocket may have a point about Albert. He didn't start slowing down with injury till after the Mitchell Report came out...

[corysold 0]

BY age 30. Miguel is 30 this year. You're cheating with your stats dude. So if we went through 29...

Total HR - Pujols 366 - Miggy 321

Total RBI - Pujols 1112 - Miggy - 1123

Batting Average - Pujols .333 Miggy - .318

2B- Pujols - 387 Miggy - 386

 

If you use ESPN's estimated totals for miggy this year(crap shoot, i know)

it goes by 30:

Total HR - Pujols 408 - MC 366

Total RBI - Pujols 1230 - MC 1308

Batting Avg. Pujols .331 - MC .323

Slugging % - Pujols .624 - MC .576

On Base % - Pujols .426 - MC .404

K's - Pujols 646 - MC 1211

2B - Pujols 426 - MC 428

 

But you're completely ignoring the point about Albert anUd his injuries. He peaked at 28,29,30 and after that, he's fallen off the map. Rocket may have a point about Albert. He didn't start slowing down with injury till after the Mitchell Report came out...

 

Through 30 at 30 who can keep it straight. Besides miggy came in the league at 19, pijols at 20, so he has one extra season if you go by age. I've know doubt Pujols could have cheated, though he never had a "peak" year out of norm like most cheaters did. So if he was cheating, it was from day 1.

 

That said, you don't find it at least a little suspicious that after Miggy "transformed his body" a few years back he's had his best seasons of his career? I'd guess he's clean, but who knows these days. He did increase his career best in homers by 12-13, which in an 11 year career is pretty substantial.

 

I'm not ignoring Pujols downfall, it just doesn't matter when discussing his career I'm comparison to Cabrera's right now. Pujols was on pace to be the best hitter of all time, but he has fallen off tht now and it doesn't appear he will ever get back in the discussion.

Edited May 29, 2013 by corysold

[piratey 6]

Through 30 at 30 who can keep it straight. Besides miggy came in the league at 19, pijols at 20, so he has one extra season if you go by age. I've know doubt Pujols could have cheated, though he never had a "peak" year out of norm like most cheaters did. So if he was cheating, it was from day 1.

 

That said, you don't find it at least a little suspicious that after Miggy "transformed his body" a few years back he's had his best seasons of his career? I'd guess he's clean, but who knows these days. He did increase his career best in homers by 12-13, which in an 11 year career is pretty substantial.

 

I'm not ignoring Pujols downfall, it just doesn't matter when discussing his career I'm comparison to Cabrera's right now. Pujols was on pace to be the best hitter of all time, but he has fallen off tht now and it doesn't appear he will ever get back in the discussion.

 

In 2009, in the final weekend of the season, he was arrested on a domestic disturbance and had a BAC of .026. He went 0-fer in that final series against the ChiSox and missed the playoffs by a game.

 

When Miggy came into the league at 19, he was 6'2" 185 lbs. He grew two inches since then(he's 6'4" now) and at one point ballooned up to north of 270. Since his arrest arrest prior to spring training in the 2011 season, he's lost 20-35lbs and given up booze.

 

His previous high in HR was 38, in 2010, last year it was 44, hardly a substantial number, he's hit 37,34,30,44 since he's been in Detroit. Last year he had Prince Fielder hitting behind him. Before that it was essentially a blackhole after Miggy...

[REMND 0]

I find this too be a really fascinating question.

 

When I was a kid, sports were 24/7 365 days a year. I used to spend an hour on the sports page memorizing and manipulating stats.

 

I lost interest in baseball when I moved to the NW where there has been little success. Eventually I lost interest in Pro football and basketball as well. I pretty much only cared about college sports.

 

Now, I only care about ND sports, mostly football and basketball. My interest there is also waining. In part because of all the fan noise and angst. Mostly I just like to root for my team.

 

I thought sports were forever so I am just a little stunned that I hardly care at all anymore except for ND football and basketball.

Edited June 6, 2013 by REMND

[piratey 6]

Through 30 at 30 who can keep it straight. Besides miggy came in the league at 19, pijols at 20, so he has one extra season if you go by age. I've know doubt Pujols could have cheated, though he never had a "peak" year out of norm like most cheaters did. So if he was cheating, it was from day 1.

 

That said, you don't find it at least a little suspicious that after Miggy "transformed his body" a few years back he's had his best seasons of his career? I'd guess he's clean, but who knows these days. He did increase his career best in homers by 12-13, which in an 11 year career is pretty substantial.

 

I'm not ignoring Pujols downfall, it just doesn't matter when discussing his career I'm comparison to Cabrera's right now. Pujols was on pace to be the best hitter of all time, but he has fallen off tht now and it doesn't appear he will ever get back in the discussion.

 

All Star break stats for Cabby:

 

.366BA/.457OBP/.682SLG/1.139OBS/30 HR/94 RBIs

That is a career mark for most players...over an entire season.

 

.452, that's his BA with men in scoring position.

.487, that's his BA with men in scoring position and two outs.

 

His stat line this season is flirting with being the greatest single season a hitter has ever had in the history of baseball. And the funny thing is, in no way is that statement a hyperbole. He's a god.