Gun Control....

[jessemoore97 1,295]

There are already Tarasoff Laws in most states that require mental health professionals to report to the person and/or police if a client expresses they are going to harm another. Most mental health professionals are also mandatory reports. A helping profession should not be blamed for mass-murders when there are already laws in place for therapists to make reports. If a person was to say they are going on a murdering spree, therapist can legally break confidentiality and make that call. Unfortunately, without the actual words it is hard to make that decision and the therapist could be sued by the client for speculation, big time.

 

Jim they can, but more often they don't. They go through about 5 different bosses and other red tape before they get the balls or blessings to actually call law enforcement, unless it was a situation where they were directly attacked by the individual. Believe me I know how the health professionals can handle things. I've seen way to many times where they have dropped the ball and left people in situations where they could be hurt further or hurt other folks due to inaction on their part.

 

Many of these folks aren't brave enough or their employers poo-poo the idea of exposing anyone to a potential lawsuit even if that means that someone ends up dying because of it. I've seen child abuse experts waiver a number of times with clear evidence of abuse and testimonials of law enforcement, ER docs and nurses, etc. What happens, the child returns home with the perp(s) that put them in the hospital with brain bleeds, fractures that couldn't have happened without severe abuse, etc and that poor soul having to suffer longer or maybe even die because no one wanted to grow a sack and call something for what it is.

 

I have way too many examples that I've personally observed in 14.5 years. It's sad. There is no more attempt to do the right thing or act on true gut feelings, its all about covering your ass and don't make waves, and its prevalent in the medical field and the criminal justice system(courts).

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Banning solves nothing. Even improvements in mental health (whatever the hell that means, seriously explain that to me) won't solve anything, not unless you're willing to lock 'em all up in an asylum. You're missing the point. Norway has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, did that stop Anders Behring Breivik from murdering 77 people? He was initially diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic.

 

You can't stop these things from happening any more than you can end war. To focus time and energy to prevent these headline killings and ignoring the murders that happen DAILY in American inner-cities is everything that is wrong with America. We're reactionary and prone to sensationalism. 20 kids die in one day at Sandy Hook elementary in an affluent white community, let's change laws. Never mind that more Americans were shot and killed in Chicago (228 ) than died in Afghanistan (144) as of August of this year. Never mind that a vast majority of those shootings were with unregistered, illegal handguns. Never mind that gang violence is climbing. Don't look at this hand because you should focus on this one instead!

 

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/21/3976754/4-year-old-shooting-victim-dies.html

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22208753/family-denver-teen-shot-killed-looks-answers

http://www.gadailynews.com/news/147066-police-teen-paul-sampleton-jr-shot-to-death-at-home-in-grayson.html

 

 

The only solution is to change culture that promotes this violence and it starts and ends with the parents. I don't know if these people need to find jobs or Jesus but something has to change. And sadly, I don't see it ever happening. It's just going to get worse and worse. And the sentiment that the government has to become our nanny will continue to grow. Brave New World indeed.

 

 

 

 

Oh and chew on this little nugget

 

Statistics from the recent past show states that passed concealed carry reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5% and robbery by 3%. Florida, which passed concealed carry in 1987, saw its higher than average homicide rate drop 52% during the following 15 years after passage, to below the national average.

 

Piratey, I agree with most everything you mentioned. There is nothing we're are able to do to stop every shooter out there. I also agree about the active shooters and how in typical fashion America becomes over reactionary after a tragedy like Sandy Hook. Without a doubt more violent crime involving firearms is perpetrated in one day in within our larger cities than all the active shooters combined for the same one day period.

 

I don't know that we need to change our culture. I look back at my childhood and how kids in my neighborhood, boys especially, played many games all day long including war games with toy guns. My father used to play those same games back in his day, and my son now does the same thing. Children(boys) behavior hasn't necessarily changed over time, they still emulate powerful/strong archetypal male figures that they see in their life. Weapons still promote that image obviously, whether its a sword or a gun, its been the same for thousands of years.

 

What has changed IMO, is that personal responsibility has eroded away so badly in our country. No one is held accountable for the things they do. And you're right we let the government come in and be nanny to us because of it.

[piratey 6]

Piratey, I agree with most everything you mentioned. There is nothing we're are able to do to stop every shooter out there. I also agree about the active shooters and how in typical fashion America becomes over reactionary after a tragedy like Sandy Hook. Without a doubt more violent crime involving firearms is perpetrated in one day in within our larger cities than all the active shooters combined for the same one day period.

 

I don't know that we need to change our culture. I look back at my childhood and how kids in my neighborhood, boys especially, played many games all day long including war games with toy guns. My father used to play those same games back in his day, and my son now does the same thing. Children(boys) behavior hasn't necessarily changed over time, they still emulate powerful/strong archetypal male figures that they see in their life. Weapons still promote that image obviously, whether its a sword or a gun, its been the same for thousands of years.

 

What has changed IMO, is that personal responsibility has eroded away so badly in our country. No one is held accountable for the things they do. And you're right we let the government come in and be nanny to us because of it.

 

I'm young-ish, 28, and we played "War" all the time with toy guns. We're not(jumping to the conclusion you weren't) raised in the inner city. We(assuming again) had parents who placed an emphasis on school and monitored what we were up to. A lot of these inner city kids have parents, who are either too busy or don't care enough to make sure they are performing well in school or staying out of trouble after school.

 

What's changed is a couple of things:

1. With the 24 hour news cycle, there is more information available to actually see how often these murders go on. I'm not entirely sure that the murder rate is any higher now than it was, say, 400 years ago.

2. Divorce rate is higher than it's every been, as is the amount of unwed mothers having babies and raising them alone.

3. People are softer and more easily offended. This leads to deadly violence escalating quickly.

4. Spot on with the personal responsibility thing. Aldous Huxley's Brave New World is quickly becoming reality

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Jim they can, but more often they don't. They go through about 5 different bosses and other red tape before they get the balls or blessings to actually call law enforcement, unless it was a situation where they were directly attacked by the individual. Believe me I know how the health professionals can handle things. I've seen way to many times where they have dropped the ball and left people in situations where they could be hurt further or hurt other folks due to inaction on their part.

 

Many of these folks aren't brave enough or their employers poo-poo the idea of exposing anyone to a potential lawsuit even if that means that someone ends up dying because of it. I've seen child abuse experts waiver a number of times with clear evidence of abuse and testimonials of law enforcement, ER docs and nurses, etc. What happens, the child returns home with the perp(s) that put them in the hospital with brain bleeds, fractures that couldn't have happened without severe abuse, etc and that poor soul having to suffer longer or maybe even die because no one wanted to grow a sack and call something for what it is.

 

I have way too many examples that I've personally observed in 14.5 years. It's sad. There is no more attempt to do the right thing or act on true gut feelings, its all about covering your ass and don't make waves, and its prevalent in the medical field and the criminal justice system(courts).

 

Its against the ethics laws to act on gut feelings, the same as it is the legal law to report in most states if a person has made a specific threat to cause harm to someone.

 

As far as abused children, that is a DHS/CPS determination. A therapist would only have the power to make reports.

[DamshaBua 48]

Before these dirty ass politicians f with our weopons, they need to make a law that says each state must require persons wishing to conceal carry legally to apply for a permit and extensive background check.

 

I'm PRO gun, but it's flippin ridiculous that we have open carry states.

 

California was open carry until 2012, I believe. The catch was the gun could not be loaded.

 

You can find videos on youtube with guy's open carrying in CA basically to fuck with police (imo). They know they are going to get stopped, detained and checked for a loaded gun.

 

There is one assclown in particular who liked walking around town with an AR.

[LionEyes 0]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg/1000px-Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg.png

 

Interesting that this debate is hitting fever pitch as overall gun violence is at just about the lowest levels since the 70's.

[DamshaBua 48]

Double post.

Edited February 10, 2013 by DamshaBua

[DamshaBua 48]

just curious, what is the need for assault rifles? why the intense push back on banning them?

 

From my perspective, part of the problem is defining what constitutes an "assault rifle." Most people think a rifle is an assault rifle because of cosmetic features.

 

The definition usually involves some combination of what CA deems evil features: pistol grips, flash hiders, thumbhole stocks, detachable magazines, bayonet lugs, etc.

 

Look at the three rifles below. The first looks like what most would consider a hunting rifle (I don't hunt) and the other two are assault rifles. Why? In my opinion, because it looks scarier. They are the same caliber and capable of inflicting the same damage to a paper target, deer or person.

 

What makes them different is the aesthetic features.

 

The one on the bottom is California legal. It has a "bullet button" which means you to have a fixed magazine which requires a tool to release. The maximum capacity is ten rounds. It looks like a 30 round magazine with a block inserted.

 

The discussion really boils down to two things: banning semi-automatic weapons and limiting magazine capacity. I'm in CA; ten rounds is the maximum unless you had something grandfathered in prior to the previous ban.

 

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-NEWMini14/MVC-882F.jpg

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/firearms-images-products-446l.jpg

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6002/5932838216_0ca781e705_b.jpg

Edited February 10, 2013 by DamshaBua