Gun Control....

[piratey 6]

Remember Larry Fishburne in Boyz in the Hood pointing out the liquor stores in Watts? He was illustrating the # of liquor stores in black neighborhoods compared to white ones and questioning why.

 

Similar question to be begged here.

 

Half our country thinks the President is illegitimate already (for many colorful and interesting reasons) and you want him to peel that onion?

 

How about just confronting the actual issue to start? God knows there are alot of people unwilling to even discuss it.

 

Who's going to start it? Bill Cosby tried, he was crucified for it... Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are part of the problem...they'd never bring it up. Lord knows a white person can't start the conversation... Obama is the only person who can start the conversation...

[Scotty88 0]

Who's going to start it? Bill Cosby tried, he was crucified for it... Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are part of the problem...they'd never bring it up. Lord knows a white person can't start the conversation... Obama is the only person who can start the conversation...

 

Disagree, he risks adding to the allure of "Robin Hood" that has been used against him.

 

He has other animals to bag, ones he's been chasing longer...immigration, etc.

 

Start the conversation on this, we need reform on gun control. If recently history holds true the right will shoot itself in the foot.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Scotty88

[corysold 0]

It's a main headline because she performed at the inauguration. If she was just a random 15 year old black girl who was gunned down, it'd be page 5 news in the Tribune...

 

The racism goes two ways and that's what's the crux... America would be up in arms if a 9month old white baby was shot, but with the case in Detroit, since it was a black baby? No national coverage, that's just Detroit. But then on the otherside, the black community doesn't say anything about it because they don't want to acknowledge their warts. They don't want to draw attention the problem because it will cast them in a bad light. What's the old phrase? The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem....and inner city cultural has a massive problem that is growing....

 

No, not totally true. The local papers, especially the Sun Times, do a pretty good job of highlighting how many people, especially children, are murdered in Chicago each year. Most murders now, and all of the children, are front page news the day they happen.

 

The problem is, the editorial pages and articles point to gun control being the solution, when that is far from what is needed, as you've pointed out.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

I own a few guns, mostly for hunting and obviously my occupation. I am totally pro-gun, but I also support gun control. IMO most of the laws on the books are pretty good, but they can be better at least Federally. I won't even touch gun laws from state to state or city to city.

 

I could see the Federal laws get better with more background checking, which of course means more of a delay for someone obtaining their permit and said firearm. The Feds need to work diligently with health care providers who oversee patients who are prone to violent behavior to ensure that a database is QUICKLY established for all levels of law enforcement to help identify potential threats and prevent officials from allowing these folks permits to purchase etc. Enforcement of the current laws on the books would be nice also.

 

I actually would be in full support of requiring permit holders to attend a firearms safety course to help instruct folks on how to properly handle, store, and operate firearms including mandatory range time. Now this can be a one time deal, thereby not requiring people to retake the course every few years when they renew their purchase license. No online courses, you have to meet in person with instructors, which I would prefer are coordinated by LE in some capacity. No fly by night internet start-up looking to make a quick buck by handing out concealed carry diplomas for "passing" their course.

 

I'm sure I'll have more as I remember them...

[jessemoore97 1,295]

I saw a few weeks ago that the top 5 movies just released contained 187 acts of violence. We are feeding this crap to our kids. The movie industry pumps millions of dollars into the liberal side of politics. Things are only going to get worse from here on out.

 

A few weeks ago the Hobbit was one of those top movies, and I would argue that the violence portrayed in that movie(which there was a fair amount of) is hardly being recreated on the streets or by children.

 

It does however go to part of the matter regarding the 1st Amendment as well as many other rights in which, liberals/Hollywood especially, have fought tooth and nail to further expand concepts and ideas contained therein. Yet they try with all their might to limit and reduce the 2nd Amendment because they disagree with portions of the wording etc and want to narrowly focus on only the parts they want and throw away the rest.

[nickman54 0]

I own a few guns, mostly for hunting and obviously my occupation. I am totally pro-gun, but I also support gun control. IMO most of the laws on the books are pretty good, but they can be better at least Federally. I won't even touch gun laws from state to state or city to city.

 

I could see the Federal laws get better with more background checking, which of course means more of a delay for someone obtaining their permit and said firearm. The Feds need to work diligently with health care providers who oversee patients who are prone to violent behavior to ensure that a database is QUICKLY established for all levels of law enforcement to help identify potential threats and prevent officials from allowing these folks permits to purchase etc. Enforcement of the current laws on the books would be nice also.

 

I actually would be in full support of requiring permit holders to attend a firearms safety course to help instruct folks on how to properly handle, store, and operate firearms including mandatory range time. Now this can be a one time deal, thereby not requiring people to retake the course every few years when they renew their purchase license. No online courses, you have to meet in person with instructors, which I would prefer are coordinated by LE in some capacity. No fly by night internet start-up looking to make a quick buck by handing out concealed carry diplomas for "passing" their course.

 

I'm sure I'll have more as I remember them...

 

What type of health care providers are you specifically speaking of here? Regular doctors or head docs?

[Synoptico 334]

What type of health care providers are you specifically speaking of here? Regular doctors or head docs?

 

With HIPAA I imagine that would be tough unless determined by the court system.

[nickman54 0]

Disagree, he risks adding to the allure of "Robin Hood" that has been used against him.

 

He has other animals to bag, ones he's been chasing longer...immigration, etc.

 

Start the conversation on this, we need reform on gun control. If recently history holds true the right will shoot itself in the foot.

 

I assume you are talking the steal from the rich and give to the poor, right? How could that be used against him for trying to talk to the minorities about the elevated level of violence in our inner cities?

 

What specific measures are you in favor of as it pertains to gun control? I can be open minded to some things when it comes to gun control, but alot of the stuff that has been put out there so far is not affective.

Edited February 1, 2013 by nickman54

[nickman54 0]

With HIPAA I imagine that would be tough unless determined by the court system.

 

I just wanted to see what specific people he thought would determine my right to defend myself. See where im going with this?

[EddieAngel 508]

Generational inner city violence is a way of life. The underlying issue is a combination of combustible materials:

 

1. High population density.

2. Low supply of necessary materials.

3. Very little means of legal acquisition.

 

What I mean is that poverty is a way of life, and violence is the solution to getting things that you dont have and need (OR simply want) because the education system is poor, there are few jobs for the uneducated (Even illiterate), and a social hierarchy in which the most violent are the most renowned. In addition, the adage "Fear is the ultimate form of respect" dominates.

 

But now I wax lethargic. The truth of any inner city is that it is easier to avoid than fix. You have to fix the education system, but how do you make that school safe for kids who want to learn when the area is dominated by violence? (See: Lean on Me, Joe Clark). How do you encourage people to educate themselves and get a job when it is easier to maintain the status quo and kill and maim and shoot and rob? It is harder to get an education and get a job and go to work every day than it is to hang out with your friends and drink.

 

If you want to look further into it, there is the idea of gentrification, which is what was touched on a few posts ago by the poster who mention Boyz in the Hood. Are the rich really positioning the poor to eliminate themselves and each other so that the land can be reclaimed and used for something more fitting? Who knows?

 

To circle back around to the gun control issue and inner city violence, Robert Heinlein said "An armed society is a polite society" and I tend to think along those lines. Guns are not going away, if you make it harder for law-abiding citizens to acquire guns and protect themselves you leave them as sheep at the mercy of the wolves. The guns are already in the hands of the bad guys. They don't go down to Turners or Bass Pro Shop to buy them.

 

Tying the hands and choking the supply so that the rights of American citizens are circumvented only serves to allow the DMZ that sits between the inner city and the suburbs to become a true warzone. As population density meets economic collapse the inner city will continue to expand.

 

Population Control > Gun Control.

[Scotty88 0]

I assume you are talking the steal from the rich and give to the poor, right? How could that be used against him for trying to talk to the minorities about the elevated level of violence in our inner cities?

 

What specific measures are you in favor of as it pertains to gun control? I can be open minded to some things when it comes to gun control, but alot of the stuff that has been put out there so far is not affective.

 

I meant tackling the issue with the inner city specifically being his talking point, this would lend to the (in my opinion false) idea that President Obama only represents the unfortunate, the victims, the minorities.

 

Why add race to an already touchy issue?

 

Specific measures? I'm not really sure not being a gun person. It seems crazy to me that people have assault rifles and automatic weaponry. I'd probably start by banning these types of weapons and look at more background checks, mental health history checks, etc.

[Scotty88 0]

The guns are already in the hands of the bad guys. They don't go down to Turners or Bass Pro Shop to buy them.

 

Lots of holes in that blanket. I don't think the real bad guys are adverse to shopping at Bass Pro.

[nickman54 0]

I meant tackling the issue with the inner city specifically being his talking point, this would lend to the (in my opinion false) idea that President Obama only represents the unfortunate, the victims, the minorities.

I dont see it that way at all. I personally would respect him if he brought attention to it.

 

Why add race to an already touchy issue?

 

Why not, the facts are there? Most gun violence is happening in these areas.

 

Specific measures? I'm not really sure not being a gun person. It seems crazy to me that people have assault rifles and automatic weaponry. I'd probably start by banning these types of weapons and look at more background checks, mental health history checks, etc.

 

Rifles and assault rifles were used in something like 3% or less of the total murders in the US in 2011 i believe. I cant remeber one legal obtained full auto being used in a single murder. So why do they want to ban them? If you have a legally obtained FA weapon you have to go through an intense background check. Handguns are the culprit of most of the murders in the US. I havent heard much talk of banning those completely. They have no concrete stats that support the ban of what they deem assault weapons.

[nd1baby 0]

How do you get the guns out of the hands of the inner city youth?

 

Banning guns just sets them up for doing more prison time for another crime. They don't follow the laws regarding murder, robbery or drugs.

 

Why would they follow new gun control measures?

[Scotty88 0]

Rifles and assault rifles were used in something like 3% or less of the total murders in the US in 2011 i believe. I cant remeber one legal obtained full auto being used in a single murder. So why do they want to ban them? If you have a legally obtained FA weapon you have to go through an intense background check. Handguns are the culprit of most of the murders in the US. I havent heard much talk of banning those completely. They have no concrete stats that support the ban of what they deem assault weapons.

 

just curious, what is the need for assault rifles? why the intense push back on banning them?

[Synoptico 334]

Rifles and assault rifles were used in something like 3% or less of the total murders in the US in 2011 i believe. I cant remeber one legal obtained full auto being used in a single murder. So why do they want to ban them? If you have a legally obtained FA weapon you have to go through an intense background check. Handguns are the culprit of most of the murders in the US. I havent heard much talk of banning those completely. They have no concrete stats that support the ban of what they deem assault weapons.

 

So why not go through the same intense background checks for hand guys?

[nd1baby 0]

just curious, what is the need for assault rifles? why the intense push back on banning them?

 

Who determines whose need for what in our society?

 

For me, they are fun to shoot at the target range. Way better than video games.

[nickman54 0]

just curious, what is the need for assault rifles? why the intense push back on banning them?

 

assume they needed banned? You yourself said your not a gun guy, why do you or others need to ban something that you do not understand? I showed you the stats rifles and the evil assault rifles accounted for less than 3% of the murders in the US. Handguns accounted for somewhere around 6000 murders almost 50%. Rifles and assault rifles were around 360. If someone wanted to ban the most deadly would it not be handguns?

 

I use a "assault style weapon" to hunt and also for protection. I have not violated any laws and millions of others that own these style weapons have not either. So why does Feinstein want them gone i have no idea.

 

Please do not assume that i am upset with you or take this the wrong way. I understand that you are more left and i enjoy understanding or trying to understand what you may think on the issue of gun control.

[nickman54 0]

So why not go through the same intense background checks for hand guys?

 

have a background check when you purchase a handgun. It is not the same a a class 3 or full auto. Those take up to one year sometimes to complete. The system in place is called NICS.

[ND3 0]

It's important to recognize one of the biggest rules of statistics: "Correlation does not imply causation". Read any book or take a course on statistics and that will be important the entire way. Because of this, I don't think it's fair to put gun violence on minorities.

 

Gun violence happens in high-poverty areas. White, black, brown, yellow- they all commit acts of gun violence in areas of extreme poverty. Minorities tend to live in these areas en masse, so of course the data will show that they commit more of these acts of violence. I firmly believe this is all about upbringing, not how someone was born.

 

I don't think we should be banning guns at all, to be honest. I had an interesting discussion recently, and a quote that was presented me follows:

 

Before you jump on the emotionally charged bandwagon for gun-control, take a moment to reflect on the real purpose of the Second Amendment, the right of the people to take up arms in defense of themselves, their families, and property in the face of invading armies or an oppressive government. The argument that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target shooting is asinine. When the ...United States Constitution was drafted, “hunting” was an everyday chore carried out by men and women to put meat on the table each night, and “target shooting” was an unheard of concept. Musket balls were a precious commodity and were certainly not wasted on “target shooting”. The Second Amendment was written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes in Europe, and it refers to the right of American citizens to be armed for defensive purposes, should such tyranny arise in the United States.

 

Something that scares the bejeezus out of me is a potential "1984" situation slowly happening in the future. A close friend of mine who currently lives in China says their situation is very similar to 1984, and the quote "he who controls the past controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past" is very much the case there. If it can happen in China, it can happen anywhere.

 

If, God forbid, regular citizens need to take up arms against an oppresive government a la American Revolution, we wouldn't stand a chance. In order to protect our families and our livelihood against oppresion, the Constitution states that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

I don't think the government should nor has any right to ban assault rifles or the like. Mass shootings are rare. They get the big coverage, but they are on the decline.

 

The underlying problems are mental illness and poverty. I think these are the issues need to taken head-on.

 

Oh, here's a relevent graph:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg/1000px-Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg.png