Zimmerman's Injury Pic

[Donjuan 16]

DJ I see your points.. But I am hoping that you can see mine also.. To me Zimmerman was an over zealous wanna be cop, who took things to far.. And in doing so, a young man, despite his past regressions, was killed..

 

I see your point--always have seen that aspect of it. But that line of reasoning negates and omits the wrongful assault committed by Trayvon upon George. Having found out that Trayvon did indeed come back to act out this assault and did in fact proceed to slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete as well as pummel his face until his nose broke, and then was discovered to have bloody knuckles posthumously and without any indicator of defending himself against Zimmerman, I then tend to believe the claim of self defense made by George Zimmerman.

[coltssb 1,044]

PJ - you basically said what I was getting at in a nutshell. That gun gave Zimmerman a false sense of power. Take away the guns and you see nothing more than an average Joe. A guy who profiled, stalked and then questioned a kid(at night) in a neighborhood where crime has picked up. If I'm Travon, I too would be a little skeptical about a guy with a gun walking up on me asking me about my business.

Remember, not everybody is from the Midwest and has a cordial attitude about random people walking up and asking you questions. I was in Lawrence, Kansas visiting a friend. Stopped at a supermarket to grab some food. As I combed the isle's looking for food I walked by some people and I said hi and smiled. These people just stared and walked away from me. I could only imagine asking them in a dark street at night, what are you doing walking around here.

[echo88 74]

PJ - you basically said what I was getting at in a nutshell. That gun gave Zimmerman a false sense of power. Take away the guns and you see nothing more than an average Joe. A guy who profiled, stalked and then questioned a kid(at night) in a neighborhood where crime has picked up. If I'm Travon, I too would be a little skeptical about a guy with a gun walking up on me asking me about my business.

Remember, not everybody is from the Midwest and has a cordial attitude about random people walking up and asking you questions. I was in Lawrence, Kansas visiting a friend. Stopped at a supermarket to grab some food. As I combed the isle's looking for food I walked by some people and I said hi and smiled. These people just stared and walked away from me. I could only imagine asking them in a dark street at night, what are you doing walking around here.

 

For the millionth time, there was no gun involved until it was used to shoot Trayvon. You make it sound like he was manically following him brandishing a gun. No teenager in his right mind is going to return to the scene to confront a guy who made it clear he had a gun.

[Donjuan 16]

For the millionth time, there was no gun involved until it was used to shoot Trayvon. You make it sound like he was manically following him brandishing a gun. No teenager in his right mind is going to return to the scene to confront a guy who made it clear he had a gun.

 

Yeah, but what about the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon around with a gun?? ...

[JayPfromSB 0]

For the millionth time, there was no gun involved until it was used to shoot Trayvon. You make it sound like he was manically following him brandishing a gun.

 

This is assumption, not fact. No one knows if Zimmerman brandished the gun at an earlier point. He sure isn't going to tell if he did, because that would destroy the self defense claim he's making.

 

I see your point--always have seen that aspect of it. But that line of reasoning negates and omits the wrongful assault committed by Trayvon upon George. Having found out that Trayvon did indeed come back to act out this assault and did in fact proceed to slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete as well as pummel his face until his nose broke, and then was discovered to have bloody knuckles posthumously and without any indicator of defending himself against Zimmerman, I then tend to believe the claim of self defense made by George Zimmerman.

 

But in your beliefs, you omit that Zimmerman chased Martin first. You discount the witness who saw the end and says there was no physical confrontation occurring when she heard the shot. You discount that no gun residue was found on Martin's hands, which would have been the case if grabbed at Zimmerman's gun when Zimmerman fired.

 

There is a lot more to this case than your current view.

[JayPfromSB 0]

PJ - you basically said what I was getting at in a nutshell. That gun gave Zimmerman a false sense of power. Take away the guns and you see nothing more than an average Joe. A guy who profiled, stalked and then questioned a kid(at night) in a neighborhood where crime has picked up. If I'm Travon, I too would be a little skeptical about a guy with a gun walking up on me asking me about my business.

Remember, not everybody is from the Midwest and has a cordial attitude about random people walking up and asking you questions. I was in Lawrence, Kansas visiting a friend. Stopped at a supermarket to grab some food. As I combed the isle's looking for food I walked by some people and I said hi and smiled. These people just stared and walked away from me. I could only imagine asking them in a dark street at night, what are you doing walking around here.

 

And in certain parts of the LA area, the question "where you from?" is a prelude to getting killed. Gang use that phrase and similar ones all of the time.

[echo88 74]

This is assumption, not fact. No one knows if Zimmerman brandished the gun at an earlier point. He sure isn't going to tell if he did, because that would destroy the self defense claim he's making.

 

 

 

But in your beliefs, you omit that Zimmerman chased Martin first. You discount the witness who saw the end and says there was no physical confrontation occurring when she heard the shot. You discount that no gun residue was found on Martin's hands, which would have been the case if grabbed at Zimmerman's gun when Zimmerman fired.

 

There is a lot more to this case than your current view.

 

Got it Jay. So you maintain that a teenager who knows that he has just been encountered by a guy who has a gun is going to willfully return to this guy's truck to see what his problem is instead of going home? Seriously.

 

So if you were out for a stroll and some guy showed you a gun and asked what you're doing in his neighborhood.....you'd wait until the guy returned to his car and then come back to see what his deal is? No, you wouldnt. Thats precisely why Zimmerman's story makes the most sense---he didn't tell that kid he had a gun and he didnt indicate he had one either.

 

Does it really matter if there's a witness who says there was no physical altercation? Did Zimmerman kick his own ass or what?

[Donjuan 16]

But in your beliefs, you omit that Zimmerman chased Martin first. You discount the witness who saw the end and says there was no physical confrontation occurring when she heard the shot. You discount that no gun residue was found on Martin's hands, which would have been the case if grabbed at Zimmerman's gun when Zimmerman fired.

 

There is a lot more to this case than your current view.

 

Apologize for not stating what I thought to be obvious. Wasn't purposely omitting for the "strength" of my argument. I'm basically looking at what transpired and can be proved by evidence. Evidence such as Zimmerman's head, nose, and contusions which all allude to his claim that he was being assaulted.

 

I've never even mentioned Trayvon and gun residue nor have I ever stated anything about a struggle for the gun, but I don't think any of that would trump the medical records released by the coroner and the county. The aspects which are substantiated and or corroborated by documented evidence are the ones which I'm referring to. There may be other angles to this but I'll stick to the coroner's report and the medical exam. Seems to be the best overall non-biased view of what allegedly did or did not happen.

[JayPfromSB 0]

Got it Jay. So you maintain that a teenager who knows that he has just been encountered by a guy who has a gun is going to willfully return to this guy's truck to see what his problem is instead of going home? Seriously.

 

So if you were out for a stroll and some guy showed you a gun and asked what you're doing in his neighborhood.....you'd wait until the guy returned to his car and then come back to see what his deal is? No, you wouldnt. Thats precisely why Zimmerman's story makes the most sense---he didn't tell that kid he had a gun and he didnt indicate he had one either.

 

Does it really matter if there's a witness who says there was no physical altercation? Did Zimmerman kick his own ass or what?

 

I maintain that your opinions are based in the that Zimmerman is telling you the 100% truth, which may not be the case.

 

So if you were out for a stroll and someone starts following you and you get away....are you going to return 10 minutes later, after you've gotten away, and ask the guy what his issue is? No, you wouldn't, and that's why Zimmerman's story makes no sense. If you scared me bad enough to make me run in the first place, there's no chance that I'm coming back looking for you. There is a strong possibility that there wasn't a 10 minute gap as suggested by Zimmerman and that all of the events happened concurrently.

 

On the flip side, if you're in a SUV with a gun, would you feel threatened by a person that you spooked bad enough to make them run away from you? If they did scare you, why would you get out of your vehicle to confront them again?

 

Inconsistencies abound. And you must have misread what I said. The witness said that there was no physical altercation occurring before she heard the gunshot, then she heard the shot. The law doesn't say you can defend yourself after the fact, otherwise you would have people going home to get their gun and finding and shooting those who threatened them.

Edited May 21, 2012 by JayPfromSB

[Donjuan 16]

And you must have misread what I said. The witness said that there was no physical altercation occurring before she heard the gunshot, then she heard the shot. The law doesn't say you can defend yourself after the fact, otherwise you would have people going home to get their gun and finding and shooting those who threatened them.

 

Broken nose. Contusions. Head trauma. Guess that all happened some other time. And I seriously doubt the witness was in a place to be able to discern back-n-forth dialogue and whether or not a physical altercation was going on standing on the other side of the vehicle a block away. Most likely why the prosecution waited like they did and then charged Zimmerman with a lesser charge. Going off the medical report, Zimmerman was physically assaulted, and to the point most would agree warrants self defense.

[JayPfromSB 0]

Broken nose. Contusions. Head trauma. Guess that all happened some other time. And I seriously doubt the witness was in a place to be able to discern back-n-forth dialogue and whether or not a physical altercation was going on standing on the other side of the vehicle a block away. Most likely why the prosecution waited like they did and then charged Zimmerman with a lesser charge. Going off the medical report, Zimmerman was physically assaulted, and to the point most would agree warrants self defense.

 

Of course. You're right. I don't know why I entered into this argument in the first place when I knew the outcome before I started.

[echo88 74]

I maintain that your opinions are based in the that Zimmerman is telling you the 100% truth, which may not be the case.

 

So if you were out for a stroll and someone starts following you and you get away....are you going to return 10 minutes later, after you've gotten away, and ask the guy what his issue is?

 

You do if you're a thug and if you don't know that the guy who just questioned you has a gun.

 

Fact: Trayvon was shot less than 30 feet from Zimmerman's parked vehicle. So either Trayvon was followed for all of 10 seconds or Trayvon returned to Zimmerman's vehicle to confront him after their spat. It looks pretty clear to me what happened.

[2lakes 1]

Rarely do preconceptions and dogmatism give birth to good judgement.

 

The only person on this thread I would want anywhere near the jury box for this trial (if there is one) would be Speedy.

 

Everybody else is just digging a trench.

 

Heck, even juries, with all the information laid out for them, make mistakes. How about we suspend judgement until there is a judge?

[echo88 74]

Rarely do preconceptions and dogmatism give birth to good judgement.

 

The only person on this thread I would want anywhere near the jury box for this trial (if there is one) would be Speedy.

 

Everybody else is just digging a trench.

 

Heck, even juries, with all the information laid out for them, make mistakes. How about we suspend judgement until there is a judge?

 

Because if we have learned anything about our judicial system in the last 20 years--specifically with high profile criminal cases covered by mainstream media--it's that it is broken beyond repair.

[NDhoosier 1,232]

Because if we have learned anything about our judicial system in the last 20 years--specifically with high profile criminal cases covered by mainstream media--it's that it is broken beyond repair.

 

I would agree with that... with all the hate the police are getting right now, I am surprised people arent attacking the courtroom and how it is handled. I see this on a daily basis and it has come to the point where I dont even care if the guy gets convicted anymore, because Ill be disappointed more times than not. I will simply do my job to the best of my abilities, and catch him the next time he/she does it.

 

The biggest question I have regarding this that seems to be overlooked is how much "authority" these nightwatchmen are given. Are they trained or taught in anyway, if so, what are they taught in certain situations? For the other cops on this board, have you ever worked with neighborhood "watchmen?"

[SpeedsterX 652]

Rarely do preconceptions and dogmatism give birth to good judgement.

 

The only person on this thread I would want anywhere near the jury box for this trial (if there is one) would be Speedy.

 

Everybody else is just digging a trench.

 

Heck, even juries, with all the information laid out for them, make mistakes. How about we suspend judgement until there is a judge?

 

Awww,,, I'm blushing.

 

I could never be on a jury as a LEO. I firmly believe that both parties are at fault here in some way, shape or form but I do believe that Zimmerman had his rights to talk to someone, anyone and Trayvon had his rights to just walk away if not being forced to stay there. I think Zimmerman should have walked away and let law enforcement handle a suspicious person and I believe Trayvon should have done whatever he could do to just leave the situation. I do not see race or age as a factor at all. I blame the media for making this story what it is now.

[JayPfromSB 0]

You do if you're a thug and if you don't know that the guy who just questioned you has a gun.

 

Fact: Trayvon was shot less than 30 feet from Zimmerman's parked vehicle. So either Trayvon was followed for all of 10 seconds or Trayvon returned to Zimmerman's vehicle to confront him after their spat. It looks pretty clear to me what happened.

 

Or if you don't know where you're going because you're scared out of your wits, in an unfamiliar neighborhood, and are in your mind, running for your life.

 

Fact: According to the official police report (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf), Trayvon's body was found in a backyard of an apartment/condo complex. Check the box for the rough area where the body was found, according to the words of the first officer on the scene.

 

http://i.imgur.com/uaXIp.jpg

 

So please explain....how do you confront someone at their car, then wander all the way around a building, and then get shot?

 

Oh...and that's further than 30 feet from anywhere where Zimmerman's car could have been parked. Unless Zimmerman was chasing Martin with his car through people's back yards, or those condos are REALLY small.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_trayvon_martin_phone_call_dm_120320_main.jpg

 

And Trayvon managed to whip Zimmerman while on the phone with his girlfriend? That's Trayvon's phone call with his girl from her cell bill, who has repeatedly stated that she heard the entire confrontation. The call time puts it at exactly 5 minutes before police arrived on the scene (the officer reports arriving at 19:17).

 

So let me see if I have this right. This thug ran from Zimmerman, turned around, found Zimmerman's car, circled Zimmerman menacing, paused, and had a conversation with his girlfriend. Zimmerman thought that while Martin was distracted, it would be a good time to run away...not drive...run. Martin noticed Zimmerman running and did a Superman move to leap over a tall building to tackle Zimmerman, who instead of running home, ran to the back of another complex, to the ground and gained the upper hand.....all while still talking to his girl. Martin began pounding Zimmerman until good ol' George remember that he had a gun...the kryptonite to all thugs. Upon pulling George pulling his gun out, Trayvon screams and falls back to get away from the gun, which George uses to rid the world of another skittles and arizona tea buying thug.

 

If everyone else can be ridiculous in their assumptions, why can't I?

 

At this point, I feel there's only one question that hasn't been answered, and it's probably the most damning piece of evidence to Zimmerman's case. Where the hell is Trayvon's phone? I don't know of a boy that age that would walk out the house without his cell phone, yet it's not listed in the effects taken from Trayvon's body. So where the hell is it?

Edited May 21, 2012 by JayPfromSB

[echo88 74]

Open and shut case....