Zimmerman's Injury Pic

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Probably because black people have been discriminated against, hung, lynched, slaved, and ridiculed for 300+ years in our country. Frankly, I'm suprised it hasn't happened more. But then again, they are still in the minority so they still need some figurehead to protect their rights, even if it's the ambulance chasing Sharpton or Jessie Jackson.

 

This topic amongst other things have really p'd me off lately. I'm really trying my best to hold my tongue on such sensitive issues because I always try to look at both sides of the each story. I'll make my two points and leave it at that just because I really do enjoy this site alot! One, just because you fit a description of a thug, or even if you are a bad egg in life does not mean you deserve to get shot or die. That's what our justice systems are for. To decide if someone is guilty or not. Now for Zimmerman, I won't go so far as to say it's racial but I will say it is profiling. Hoodies and walking in the dark doesn't always equal criminals. I have 2 myself, and enjoy an aftertoon stroll in the wintertime. Two, because Zimmerman didn't follow advice, a boy is dead, because of him, he should pay the price. Self-defense or not, he should have to pay a price for costing a life.

 

Coltssb, to address you second point. You're right there is nothing illegal about walking around in a hoodie in the middle of the night and it certainly doesn't equal being a criminal. Lots of people wear hoodies, doesn't matter what race. You're right about it being profiling too. You made a clear distinction in your example, you like to go for an afternoon walk which generally is an "acceptable" time to see someone out and about doing things. At O'dark thirty people start to question certain activities and the people seen doing them. Is it ok to be out after dark, sure it is, but overall it is considered unusual to most common people who have daytime schedules.

 

I've worked the patrol and plain clothes shifts at night for 14 years now. I've stopped many people out and about dressed a certain way, in certain areas, acting a certain way, in the dark. It's profiling, which unfortunately is very misunderstood and gets an ugly name when the police or anyone else uses it. Profiling is an invaluable tool in my arsenal to do my job and do it effectively. I'll stop and talk to people all the time, see how they're doing, where they live, what they are doing, where are they going. I can articulate to them why I may have stopped them or are speaking with them.

 

There is something to be said of the addage, "nothing good happens after midnight."

[SpeedsterX 652]

So if we're having our heads bashed into the curb and we defend ourselves, then we should be accountable for costing a life??

 

My thoughts exactly!

 

Also dispatch did not order him to stop following him, they said something to the effect, "you don't want to do that".

 

Also many of you are saying that Zimmerman does not have the right to ask someone a question? Especially someone he does not recognize in a gated community? A gated community that has had a spike in crime recently?

[Donjuan 16]

Two black eyes, a broken nose, several lacerations on the back of the head...meet George Zimmerman. The victim here is not bloody-knuckled Trayvon. Although pursuing an unarmed "suspicious person," Zimmerman has his rights (too) especially when walking away, to not have his brains bashed in by a known law-breaker... The prosecution really has no case the further this thing drags on. Mix in the autopsy report and and all the mitigating factors which support Zimmerman's self-defense claim, and all you have left is public perception: which is 98% this case. I fully expect these charges to be dropped as silently as possible...

[coltssb 1,044]

So if we're having our heads bashed into the curb and we defend ourselves, then we should be accountable for costing a life??

 

Fine, let's keep to this story. What if the same scenerio happened, only, this time the skinnier Martin was getting his head bashed in. He sees Zimmerman's gun and grabs it and shoots Zimmerman. Is it still self-defense? Or will you be yelling for Martin's head because it was a neighborhood watchmen? What if this same scenerio happened but it was you and I, you being Martin and I being Zimmerman, I'm sure your family would want justice on me. As 2 lakes mentioned, nobody was there on this site. But what I do know is this, Zimmerman brought a gun to a fist fight, one that he could had avoided and should had avoided until authorized people showed up. Working in a hospital, we have some crazy people that tend to pop up oh, every once in awhile. We DON"T have guns. We have to use some intelligence when dealing with these nut jobs. Mainly, talking and diffusing the situation works. Every once in awhile a person will get volitile and try to swing. You have to know your limitations when dealing with people. I'm sure each cop on this site knows what their limitations are in dealing with these individuals....Guns don't always solve the problems but sometimes make them worst. As, Zimmerman's finding out....

[SpeedsterX 652]

Fine, let's keep to this story. What if the same scenerio happened, only, this time the skinnier Martin was getting his head bashed in. He sees Zimmerman's gun and grabs it and shoots Zimmerman. Is it still self-defense? YES!

 

Or will you be yelling for Martin's head because it was a neighborhood watchmen? Watchman or not, he has the right to talk to someone without violence.

 

What if this same scenerio happened but it was you and I, you being Martin and I being Zimmerman, I'm sure your family would want justice on me. As 2 lakes mentioned, nobody was there on this site. That's true, thats why DJ mentioned the longer this goes the more the evidence is supporting Zimmerman's story.

 

But what I do know is this, Zimmerman brought a gun to a fist fight, Or Trayvon brought fists to a gunfight. It's Zimmerman's right to legally carry a gun.

 

one that he could had avoided and should had avoided until authorized people showed up. "authorized"?

 

Working in a hospital, we have some crazy people that tend to pop up oh, every once in awhile. We DON"T have guns. We have to use some intelligence when dealing with these nut jobs. Mainly, talking and diffusing the situation works. Every once in awhile a person will get volitile and try to swing. You have to know your limitations when dealing with people. I'm sure each cop on this site knows what their limitations are in dealing with these individuals....Guns don't always solve the problems but sometimes make them worst. As, Zimmerman's finding out.... And sometimes the use of deadly force by a firearm is the exact the response needed to stop an attack that could be just as deadly even though it wasn't by a gun.

 

weinerweinerweiner

[coltssb 1,044]

weinerweinerweiner

 

Name calling? You should be ashamed to be a moderator. It doesn't suprise me though. Not after that high authority cop attitude you displayed on the one post you so "conviently" erased. Great judge of your true character. I am starting to see why certain family matters happened...

[SpeedsterX 652]

Name calling? You should be ashamed to be a moderator. It doesn't suprise me though. Not after that high authority cop attitude you displayed on the one post you so "conviently" erased. Great judge of your true character. I am starting to see why certain family matters happened...

 

LOL!!!!

 

NO! Not name calling! We have a minimum character to type for a post to post up. I posted in your quotations which the system does not recognize as hitting the character limit so it is custom here at DomerDomain to add "weinerweinerweiner" on those posts so the post will show up. I believe Domeanddomer came up with it. Do a search for "weinerweinerweiner" and you'll see that many of us use it when we have something very short to say but want it to show up in a post. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. On the other hand, you no clue why I am having problems with my teenage daughter so don't assume.

 

Here's an example, see the last post: http://www.domerdomain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33088&highlight=weinerweinerweiner

 

and another: http://www.domerdomain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27169&highlight=weinerweinerweiner

 

I am starting to see that you, as usual, post about things you have no clue about.

Edited May 20, 2012 by SpeedsterX

[Tenacious_ND 0]

So if we're having our heads bashed into the curb and we defend ourselves, then we should be accountable for costing a life??

 

in this specific situation absolutely.

[Rocknes Shadow 0]

in this specific situation absolutely.

 

Here's the only thing I can say for sure:

 

1.) A kid coming home from a convenience store with an ice tea and bag of skittles should not die not matter how much weed he's smoked in his young lifetime.

 

2.) If Zimmerman does what the dispatcher advised him and not follow the kid, he would be unhurt and the kid would be alive.

 

Everything else is complete conjuncture.

[echo88 74]

Here's the only thing I can say for sure:

 

1.) A kid coming home from a convenience store with an ice tea and bag of skittles should not die not matter how much weed he's smoked in his young lifetime.

 

2.) If Zimmerman does what the dispatcher advised him and not follow the kid, he would be unhurt and the kid would be alive.

 

Everything else is complete conjuncture.

 

1) He wasnt killed for having skittles and iced tea. He was killed for physically assaulting a guy who happened to have a gun. The weed he smoked has nothing to do with the scenario, except to give people perspective into this kid's lifestyle. He carried tools to break into vehicles, he was suspended from school multiple times, and he smokes pot. Not a big deal until you're trying to understand what kind of kid "keeps it real" and returns to the scene of a verbal altercation to settle matters. This wasn't an honor roll student who was involved in the glee club---he was a kid with a sketchy past who decided to re-approach Zimmerman after the cops were called and the scene would've been over. The details about his past certainly helped me answer the question: Is this the kind of kid who would probably physically assault someone? The answer is yes. It was clear to me that he assaulted Zimmerman before the photos even came out.

 

2) How do you know that the kid wouldn't have come back to Zimmerman's truck even if he wasnt followed? Trayvon obviously had more words to exchange with him. The "conjecture" here is assuming that it was the following part that fired up Trayvon and not the fact that his feelings were hurt when he was asked what he was doing in the neighborhood.

 

I do know this: If my kid was suspended from school, he wouldn't be roaming the neighborhood. He'd be doing yardwork or writing a 20,000 word essay explaining how his life would be ruined without success in school.

[nico7980 0]

Donjuan.. You're a joke.. You list all of what Trayvon did in his past, but seemingly forgot to list all of what Zimmerman did in his.. Funny.. Zimmerman is a guy with multiple run ins with the police.. Not to mention that he had charges filed against him from past relations with women.. Let me ask you.. In what kind of light does that put Zimmerman in? Don't let your bias be to great.. To me it show a guy that seems to have a quick temper and not one who thinks things through..

 

The Florida stand your ground law can also work for Trayvon.. He was followed.. He was accosted by Zimmerman.. He was the one that got shot and killed.. If I'm a kid walking to my dad's home and this guy is following me for how long.. Trayvon doesn't know who this guy is or what he intends to do..

 

And the 911 operater told Zimmerman that we don't need you to do that.. Even after those implicit instructions.. You could still hear Zimmerman following Trayvon, with the wind whistling through the phone.. So no, after he was told not to follow he still did..

 

This whole thing is bad all around.. But for you to try to paint this kid as a bad apple and not include what Zimmerman has also done.. Is wrong and you should know better..

Edited May 20, 2012 by nico7980

[jessemoore97 1,295]

in this specific situation absolutely.

 

How so? Could you elaborate please?

 

I believe that getting your head slammed against the sidewalk/ground during the course of a fight would constitute deadly force. I can think of three or four instances right off the top of my head where a fight(just fists) lead to the death of one of the combatants involved. Three of the cases I was involved in responding to or investigated. I've worked numerous other cases were someone was seriously injured from getting their ass kicked in a fight, and the resulting injuries included things like brain bleeds which can be very touchy with regard to causing permanent debilitating injuries or death.

 

There was an incident in a town in Iowa a few years ago where a maintenance worker at an apartment building shot and killed a former tenant. The tenant and his young family had been evicted by management and needed to have all their property removed by such and such date. That day went by and apparently they hadn't moved all their stuff. The tenant approached the maintenance worker demanding to be admitted into the apartment to retrieve the rest of his belongings, and the worker refused and instructs him to contact management to obtain permission. The tenant flies off the handle and starts to assault the worker relentlessly, punching and kicking the man for his refusal. The worker who is in his 50's cannot stand up to the assault and tries to get away from his attacker who's in his early to mid 20's. The worker runs to his truck and enters it, but the attacker follows him in and is on top of the worker in the cab thumping on him. The worker manages to get his pistol then shoots and kills the suspect. I believe the worker had a permit too.

 

I bring this incident up because it caused quite a stir among people in Eastern Iowa and brought up a lot of debate regarding firearms and defending oneself. All of the people condemning the worker brought up that the other guy was unarmed and it was "just" a fist fight and wasn't a life threatening situation that constituted the use of deadly force. Obviously it isn't the same as the Florida situation, however there are some parallels in when is it justifiable to shoot someone during a fight. Like I said earlier, if your head is getting bashed into the ground, you would be justified in believing that your life is in serious jeopardy and needed to react with deadly force.

[echo88 74]

Donjuan.. You're a joke.. You list all of what Trayvon did in his past, but seemingly forgot to list all of what Zimmerman did in his.. Funny.. Zimmerman is a guy with multiple run ins with the police.. Not to mention that he had charges filed against him from past relations with women.. Let me ask you.. In what kind of light does that put Zimmerman in? Don't let your bias be to great.. To me it show a guy that seems to have a quick temper and not one who thinks things through..

 

The Florida stand your ground law can also work for Trayvon.. He was followed.. He was accosted by Zimmerman.. He was the one that got shot and killed.. If I'm a kid walking to my dad's home and this guy is following me for how long.. Trayvon doesn't know who this guy is or what he intends to do..

 

And the 911 operater told Zimmerman that we don't need you to do that.. Even after those implicit instructions.. You could still hear Zimmerman following Trayvon, with the wind whistling through the phone.. So no, after he was told not to follow he still did..

 

This whole thing is bad all around.. But for you to try to paint this kid as a bad apple and not include what Zimmerman has also done.. Is wrong and you should know better..

 

"We dont need you to do that" is not an instruction of any kind, nor is Zimmerman required to comply with any requests of a 911 operator. I realize Trayvon didnt understand his intentions, but it keeps getting ignored that Trayvon was the one who returned to the scene to confront Zimmerman after all was said and done.

[PJacksonsDred15 110]

Did Martin grab Mr. Zimmerman out of his truck?? No. Zimmerman left his truck and approached a person whom he admitted looked suspicious and on drugs late at night, with a gun in hand. Zimmerman knew that there were dangerous people in his neighborhood who broke in to houses. Common sense tells you that this would create a dangerous situation which could cause someone to be hurt or killed. That's exactly what happened. This is the definition of manslaughter.

 

Do you think Zimmerman would have approached him without a gun? I say hell no. The gun gave him the courage to do and say whatever he wanted to Martin, he got his ass beat, and relied on the gun to bail himself out of a situation he put himself in. He's a coward who all the gun groups are rallying around and defending, because this is an indictment on guns in America. Gun use in this country has been out of control for years and until we change the law people will continued to be killed by guys like George Zimmerman. This country shouldn't be like the Wild West.

Edited May 20, 2012 by PJackson'sDred15

[Donjuan 16]

"We dont need you to do that" is not an instruction of any kind, nor is Zimmerman required to comply with any requests of a 911 operator. I realize Trayvon didnt understand his intentions, but it keeps getting ignored that Trayvon was the one who returned to the scene to confront Zimmerman after all was said and done.

 

Bingo. The victim is not and continues to be proven not to be Trayvon. But lets ignore all the evidence and talk about the events leading up to Trayvon being shot...lol. We have a right to carry guns and to defend ourselves when getting jumped. Thank God for that right...

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Did Martin grab Mr. Zimmerman out of his truck?? No. Zimmerman left his truck and approached a person whom he admitted looked suspicious and on drugs late at night, with a gun in hand. Zimmerman knew that there were dangerous people in his neighborhood who broke in to houses. Common sense tells you that this would create a dangerous situation which could cause someone to be hurt or killed. That's exactly what happened. This is the definition of manslaughter.

 

Do you think Zimmerman would have approached him without a gun? I say hell no. The gun gave him the courage to do and say whatever he wanted to Martin, he got his ass beat, and relied on the gun to bail himself out of a situation he put himself in. He's a coward who all the gun groups are rallying around and defending, because this is an indictment on guns in America. Gun use in this country has been out of control for years and until we change the law people will continued to be killed by guys like George Zimmerman. This country shouldn't be like the Wild West.

 

You could take away every gun, law abiding citizens, have in this country. Its far fetched but lets pretend that it happened. Guns won't disappear off the streets or from crimes committed using them. Stiffer penalties aren't going to deter the criminals who already possess one. What next?

[nico7980 0]

Bingo my ass. DJ. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing. We don't need you to do that in response to I'm following him is a direct answer to his question. Still no answer to Zimmermans past. But you had a mouthful to say about Trayvon. Why doesn't the stand your ground law work for Trayvon? Echo, DJ? Once again. This guy had a past of police run in and domestic voilence. Why is his past over looked and Trayvons isn't?

[Donjuan 16]

Bingo my ass. DJ. Zimmerman initiated this whole thing. We don't need you to do that in response to I'm following him is a direct answer to his question. Still no answer to Zimmermans past. But you had a mouthful to say about Trayvon. Why doesn't the stand your ground law work for Trayvon? Echo, DJ? Once again. This guy had a past of police run in and domestic voilence. Why is his past over looked and Trayvons isn't?

 

Because from the get-go, Zimmerman wasn't portrayed to be innocent like Trayvon was. Lets talk about the media editing the tapes and showing a picture of Trayvon at 13. Why would they do that? Why would the media edit the tape to make it seem as if Zimmerman described Trayvon in his initial assessment as being a "suspicious looking black person" and not simply answering the operator when she asked for a description?? So why would Zimmerman's past be as big a deal as Trayvon's who from the early onset, was portrayed to be an innocent kid?? It's a shock to many that Trayvon was a thief, drug-user and oft' suspended from school. So to was finding out that this youthful-looking "13 year-old" did indeed smash Zimmerman's head into the curb unlike earlier reported.

 

So when asking why Zimmerman's past isn't being as criticized as Trayvon's, the answer is simple. We all were lied to and told that Trayvon was this innocent victim. And now that the medical findings are coming out and have cast serious doubts on that theory, Trayvon's real past is being looked at further. If Zimmerman was ever cast as the innocent victim here and tapes were altered and younger pictures shown to suggest this, then likewise, his history would be relevant. This whole 'Zimmerman was carrying a gun-thus his intent was to use it theory', is pablum at its very best.

[echo88 74]

Did Martin grab Mr. Zimmerman out of his truck?? No. Zimmerman left his truck and approached a person whom he admitted looked suspicious and on drugs late at night, with a gun in hand. Zimmerman knew that there were dangerous people in his neighborhood who broke in to houses. Common sense tells you that this would create a dangerous situation which could cause someone to be hurt or killed. That's exactly what happened. This is the definition of manslaughter.

 

Do you think Zimmerman would have approached him without a gun? I say hell no. The gun gave him the courage to do and say whatever he wanted to Martin, he got his ass beat, and relied on the gun to bail himself out of a situation he put himself in. He's a coward who all the gun groups are rallying around and defending, because this is an indictment on guns in America. Gun use in this country has been out of control for years and until we change the law people will continued to be killed by guys like George Zimmerman. This country shouldn't be like the Wild West.

 

You must be working with old info. Trayvon, after their initial altercation, approached Zimmerman in his truck to finish the dispute. When Zimmerman followed Trayvon, he didn't have his gun in hand as you indicate. The first time a gun was included in the equation is when it was pulled to shoot. You really think an unarmed teenager is going to assault a grown man with a gun? He didn't know Zimmerman had a gun.

[nico7980 0]

DJ I see your points.. But I am hoping that you can see mine also.. To me Zimmerman was an over zealous wanna be cop, who took things to far.. And in doing so, a young man, despite his past regressions, was killed..