Push to Make the Tournament

[tneun89 978]

Since the blowout loss to Duke last Saturday, ND has taken care of business in their last two games (both at home), beating UNC on Monday on a last second three by Laszewski and then killing Miami by 16 (87-71) yesterday.

 

As has been mentioned previously, they really need to win out and they really need to beat FSU at home - that would represent one of their few quality wins of the season - to make the Tournament. The last four games:

 

2/26 (Wed): @ Boston College

2/29 (Sat): @ Wake Forest

3/4 (Wed): #8 Florida State

3/7 (Sat): Virginia Tech

 

It's never easy to win on the road in the ACC, and Boston College beat ND earlier this season. That will be a tough game, but BC is 13-15 overall and 7-10 in the ACC, so it's definitely winnable. Wake should be a fairly easy win, as they are 11-15 overall and 4-12 in conference play. FSU will be really though, although ND almost pulled off the upset in Tallahassee earlier in the year. Virginia Tech is 15-12 overall and 6-10 in the ACC. That should be a fairly easy home win.

 

The most likely finish is 3-1, but ND definitely has a shot to win out, especially considering the FSU game is at home. But that game is a must-win because they don't have a win like that (or anything remotely close) on their resume. If they do win out, they will finish 21-10 overall and 12-8 in the ACC (with a Top 10 win), likely grabbing the #5 seed in ACC Tournament, which would all but assure them a spot in the NCAA Tournament.

[irishrush 60]

Thanks for that update. FSU is doable for sure. I think we are playing fairly well right now.

 

Shoulda woulda coulda, but we had a couple of really bad losses earlier in the year.

[tneun89 978]

Thanks for that update. FSU is doable for sure. I think we are playing fairly well right now.

 

Shoulda woulda coulda, but we had a couple of really bad losses earlier in the year.

 

Yes - there was an 8 game stretch starting with the Indiana game in December where ND went 3-5, with the 5 losses being by an aggregate total of 13 points, including near upsets of #13 Louisville (64-67) and #5 FSU (84-85). That UVA loss a couple of weeks ago was also a killer - ND really let that win get away, with multiple chances to win it.

 

But I agree that ND is playing well - they play with much more confidence at home and really shoot the ball well. ND shot 45.2% from 3PT yesterday, on 31 shots! TJ Gibbs played lights out. He needs to be a factor the rest of the way because when he is playing well, ND is so much better, especially on offense, and when he's not, games like Duke and Virginia happen.

[cavic 2]

According to Jordan Cornette on the ACC network- ND needs to win out and make it to the finals of the ACC tournament to get in.

[tneun89 978]

According to Jordan Cornette on the ACC network- ND needs to win out and make it to the finals of the ACC tournament to get in.

 

They definitely have to win the last 4 regular season games because they need the FSU win to boost their resume, but I don't think they have to get to the Finals of the ACC Tournament - that's asking a lot. If ND wins out, they almost certainly will finish 5th in the ACC. They could end up tied with Syracuse at 12-8, if Syracuse wins out. (NC State could also win out and finish 12-8 - they would hold the tie breaker over ND due to their head-to-head win - but they would have to beat Duke first which is highly unlikely). If I am reading the ACC rules correctly, the tie breaker would go to the team who has beaten the highest ranked conference team, which would be ND as long as FSU finishes higher than Virginia (Syracuse's best win) in the ACC standings.

 

No matter what, if ND finishes 5th or 6th, they would have a very winnable game in the Second Round, but then they'd have to play either the #3 or #4 seed, depending on if they are #5 or #6 seed, in the Quarterfinals. I guess he said that thinking they'd need another quality win, but I just don't see ND getting left out if they finish 5th in the ACC and win at least once in the ACC Tournament. I definitely don't see them needing to make the Finals. The ACC is down this season, but I would be shocked if less than 5/6 teams make the Tournament.

[tneun89 978]

WOW! ND beats BC on a Gibbs floater at the buzzer. Unreal. Final 62-61.

 

ND trailed all night. Didn’t take the lead until about 4 minutes left, then the teams went back and forth. ND had a chance to put it away on their last possession, but missed a shot. BC hit an easy 2 with 8 seconds left to take a 1 point lead. I thought Hubb was going to just dribble and have to throw up a prayer, but he found Gibbs in the paint, who hit the floater with 0.1 left on the clock.

 

Ugly, ugly game. Mooney was the only guy who played well. But ND just needs to win. All that matters. Hope still alive. Go Irish.

[irishrush 60]

Another game where it was hard to figure out who wanted to lose more.

When we are not hitting, we are awful.

 

I do think BC's defense was really good, though.

 

Thank god Gibbs was clutch at the end. Not that we have a huge chance, but we needed that to maintain any chance...

[Synoptico 333]

Another game where it was hard to figure out who wanted to lose more.

When we are not hitting, we are awful.

 

I do think BC's defense was really good, though.

 

Thank god Gibbs was clutch at the end. Not that we have a huge chance, but we needed that to maintain any chance...

 

I dont know that I have watched them this year and said, "that is a tournament team"

[LasVegasIrish 0]

Survive and advance. If they win the remaining games + 1 tourney game I think they get in.

[irishwavend 565]

Another game where it was hard to figure out who wanted to lose more.

When we are not hitting, we are awful.

 

I do think BC's defense was really good, though.

 

Thank god Gibbs was clutch at the end. Not that we have a huge chance, but we needed that to maintain any chance...

 

This has been Brey's teams for the most part since he started. Hit and they're great, but when they're cold, they're cold. The system doesn't allow for much inside many times. I've never been the biggest Brey fan... But, we've been stuck with him and he's given us a little to celebrate at times. He's completely a mixed bag though.

 

In 19 seasons, we've made it to the Tournament 12 times, 4 of which we were bounced in the first round and and 5 of which we were bounced in the second. So of the times we've made it to the tournament, we've only made it past the first weekend 3 times.

 

In the NIT, we've made it 5 times, and been bounced in the first round 1 time and bounced in the second round 2 times. We've also completely missed all tournaments twice.

 

I don't consider simply making it to the NCAA tournament an accomplishment if you get bounced in the first or second round as often as we do. And, at this point in his career, we should be doing a lot better.

 

The Sweet 16 year in 2003 was special but we felt lucky - we were definitely having a hot streak. We should've done a lot better in those first three years with the ridiculous personnel we had, but Brey isn't the best coach. Then, we had the two Elite Eight years that made you think he turned the corner in his coaching. But, I don't think so, now...

 

Part of me wished more had come from the Brey/Zorich issue so he'd move on.

[tneun89 978]

Well, that’s all she wrote. What should have been the easiest game left, ND loses to Wake Forest 84-73. They were down 11 at halftime but really dominated the first 10 minutes of the second half and had the lead. It went back and forth but Wake pulled away late - getting too many second chance points and shooting around 50% from the floor. ND shot really poorly - around 25% from 3PT.

 

Mooney looks good in the box score but really missed some easy shots and a few FT. Tell me if you’ve heard this before, really poor game from Gibbs and Hubb. I like Hubb less and less every game - too careless with the ball and too many bad shots. ND really has no true offensive threat. Not sure why Durham didn’t get more playing time considering Wake’s big man had 30 points on about 75% shooting. ND played horrible defense all day.

 

Tough way to go out. Even if they beat FSU on Wednesday, they have pretty much no shot to make the NCAA unless they win the ACC Tournament. Improved a lot this year but this team is not a Tournament team this year.

[D Fence 162]

I've seen some pretty bad ND hoops teams such as in the John MacLeod era, so for years I've given Brey a reluctant nod despite my frustrations with his style. I figured that him working through easy non-conference schedules every year and overachieving in the Big East / ACC enough just to make the tourney was an improvement.

 

But this year's team is as bad if not worse than those MacLeod teams. Despite their late run this season, I still don't believe they've beaten 1 team that's going to the tournament (I know it's early and maybe UCLA can get in).

 

Looking to the future no help is on the way. We continue to underinvest in scholarship players looking for guys that "fit", all while guys get hurt, transfer, etc.

 

This is a really bad situation because I don't think Swarbrick will ever fire Brey, and Brey will never move on until he is asked to.

 

I really think it's time for Brey to move onto a different challenge, and unfortunately see that unless he does we'll see the same results as these past 2-3 seasons for the next 5 years (or worse).

[edcubby 2]

This has been Brey's teams for the most part since he started. Hit and they're great, but when they're cold, they're cold. The system doesn't allow for much inside many times. I've never been the biggest Brey fan... But, we've been stuck with him and he's given us a little to celebrate at times. He's completely a mixed bag though.

 

In 19 seasons, we've made it to the Tournament 12 times, 4 of which we were bounced in the first round and and 5 of which we were bounced in the second. So of the times we've made it to the tournament, we've only made it past the first weekend 3 times.

 

In the NIT, we've made it 5 times, and been bounced in the first round 1 time and bounced in the second round 2 times. We've also completely missed all tournaments twice.

 

I don't consider simply making it to the NCAA tournament an accomplishment if you get bounced in the first or second round as often as we do. And, at this point in his career, we should be doing a lot better.

 

The Sweet 16 year in 2003 was special but we felt lucky - we were definitely having a hot streak. We should've done a lot better in those first three years with the ridiculous personnel we had, but Brey isn't the best coach. Then, we had the two Elite Eight years that made you think he turned the corner in his coaching. But, I don't think so, now...

 

Part of me wished more had come from the Brey/Zorich issue so he'd move on.

 

Was the Brey/Zorich thing actually real?

 

I knew the Zorich/reporter issue but I always assumed the Brey thing was just a made up rumor thing.

[Jersey Irish 205]

Well, that’s all she wrote. What should have been the easiest game left, ND loses to Wake Forest 84-73. They were down 11 at halftime but really dominated the first 10 minutes of the second half and had the lead. It went back and forth but Wake pulled away late - getting too many second chance points and shooting around 50% from the floor. ND shot really poorly - around 25% from 3PT.

 

Mooney looks good in the box score but really missed some easy shots and a few FT. Tell me if you’ve heard this before, really poor game from Gibbs and Hubb. I like Hubb less and less every game - too careless with the ball and too many bad shots. ND really has no true offensive threat. Not sure why Durham didn’t get more playing time considering Wake’s big man had 30 points on about 75% shooting. ND played horrible defense all day.

 

Tough way to go out. Even if they beat FSU on Wednesday, they have pretty much no shot to make the NCAA unless they win the ACC Tournament. Improved a lot this year but this team is not a Tournament team this year.

 

Watching the FSU game last night was like going to the dbntist. You knew at the end the pain was coming and as usual, this team choked away another close game on its home court. FSU led at the buzzer and it was only their second lead of the game. This is an NIT team and not acceptable by ND standards.

[Domers23 61]

Watching the FSU game last night was like going to the dbntist. You knew at the end the pain was coming and as usual, this team choked away another close game on its home court. FSU led at the buzzer and it was only their second lead of the game. This is an NIT team and not acceptable by ND standards.

 

And what is worse, I don't see it getting better any time soon. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. :pout:

[tneun89 978]

And what is worse, I don't see it getting better any time soon. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. :pout:

 

That's the issue. They lose Mooney and Gibbs and really don't have the pieces to replace them. They will have another short bench next year, which is one of Brey's major shortcomings. He doesn't like carrying a long bench because players get unhappy, but you need to be able to rotate 8-9 guys, instead of 7. I'm glad Durham is back and I think Cormac Ryan (Stanford transfer) will be really good. Like the development of Goodwin and hope that Carmody comes back healthy because I thought he flashed as a freshman. But, man, there just isn't a ton of talent waiting in the wings. The incoming freshman - Elijah Taylor and Matt Zona - are both limited and won't be ready to offer quality minutes off the bench next season.

 

I like the front line of Hubb, Ryan, Goodwin, Laszewski, and Durham, but the bench is really short with only Carmody, Djogo, and the two freshman. They really need to land 1 or 2 grad transfers, preferably a PG and PF/C because they have no depth at those positions. The good news is that ND was "close" this year in the ACC, losing their conference games by an average of 3.88 points (with the exception of Duke). The bad news is the team won't be nearly as talented with the loss of Mooney and Gibbs, and the ACC probably won't be as down as it was this season, making it harder for ND to win.

[irishwavend 565]

People are rabid about dumping Kelly, but they really need to be much more rabid about dumping Brey... Good gracious... As Brad Pitt asked in Troy... "Is there no one else???"

[irishrush 60]

Has Inglesby done enough a Delaware to be a viable candidate?

[WeaverIrish 19]

People are rabid about dumping Kelly, but they really need to be much more rabid about dumping Brey... Good gracious... As Brad Pitt asked in Troy... "Is there no one else???"

 

Comparing the two coaches is an interesting move. Brey has major wins. Brey has done that while being given a basement gym to practice in for 90% of his career, thats why he's still around. He deserves to choose when he leaves.

[Dardo 17]

People are rabid about dumping Kelly, but they really need to be much more rabid about dumping Brey... Good gracious... As Brad Pitt asked in Troy... "Is there no one else???"

 

First of all no one, not even the biggest Kelly haters on this board, are currently advocating for a Kelly firing.

 

Comparing the two coaches is an interesting move. Brey has major wins. Brey has done that while being given a basement gym to practice in for 90% of his career, thats why he's still around. He deserves to choose when he leaves.

 

Comparing them is fair, in the sense that they are both coaches of the 2 biggest teams at ND.

 

It's also unfair, in the sense that I bought 2 tickets to last nights game against a top 10 team for $10.50 after seatgeeks fees. The city of South Bend, the students and alumni have not really given a **** about basketball for as long as I've been going, at least not compared to football.

 

It's also unfair in the sense that Kelly has gotten the support of the administration from the second he arrived on campus in terms of practice facilities, turf fields etc. whereas Brey (and Muffett) spent almost 20 years sharing a practice gym that isn't as nice as a lot of high school gyms.

 

It's also unfair in the sense that Brey has rarely, if ever had any off the court issues involving players. Maybe someone can remember something I'm missing, but I can only think of one arrest (Mcalarney) although there is probably more and when players are struggling in school (Grant, Jackson there's probably been more I can't think of right now) they get suspended/asked to leave for a semester then come back as seemingly better students. During the Kelly tenure, arrests of football players has seemed to be higher than during previous coaching regimes, and more players have seemed to flunk out.

 

This last one is more subjective but I also think Brey just seems like a better ambassador for ND than Kelly, in terms of what the public sees. I don't know either of them, but Brey is seemingly liked/respected across college bball and by everyone on ESPN and it doesn't seem that way with Kelly, which I think hurts ND.

 

In all, I totally get people that think Brey should retire and go do TV or whatever but comparing ND bball to ND football doesn't make a whole lot of sense.