Is Brey a Poor Recruiter?

[ndomer4 532]

I’m starting to think so and I think he gets a pass. I don’t follow too closely but it seems like we always target so few guys and very few elite guys.

 

There are only so few one and dones, im sure he can sell guys on uncertainties of making it pro along with injuries. The 40 year decision should work and we’ve had success to go with it.

 

He seems like a likeable guy and has an offensive system with success that’s gotten guys to the pros. Maybe he’s lazy? Or he’s limiting his target pool too much?

 

All I know is the few games I’ve watched this is the most unathletic Irish team I’ve seen, not sure we will make the NIT this year.

[LasVegasIrish 0]

I’m starting to think so and I think he gets a pass. I don’t follow too closely but it seems like we always target so few guys and very few elite guys.

 

There are only so few one and dones, im sure he can sell guys on uncertainties of making it pro along with injuries. The 40 year decision should work and we’ve had success to go with it.

 

He seems like a likeable guy and has an offensive system with success that’s gotten guys to the pros. Maybe he’s lazy? Or he’s limiting his target pool too much?

 

All I know is the few games I’ve watched this is the most unathletic Irish team I’ve seen, not sure we will make the NIT this year.

 

He’s definitely picky with who he really pursues, but no I don’t think he’s a bad recruiter. He could go after the one and dones more often, and probably land a few more elite guys...but that’s not his preference.

 

He was starting to show his recruiting prowess with the success ND was having on the court, last year included. He’s also done very well with lower rated guys ala Bonzie Colson.

[Frankus 197]

Brey is limited because ND won't allow him to recruit one and done guys.

[BrianKellyWasNotTheMan 12]

Brey is limited because ND won't allow him to recruit one and done guys.

 

This, is the biggest reason.

[Domers23 61]

I’m starting to think so and I think he gets a pass. I don’t follow too closely but it seems like we always target so few guys and very few elite guys.

 

There are only so few one and dones, im sure he can sell guys on uncertainties of making it pro along with injuries. The 40 year decision should work and we’ve had success to go with it.

 

He seems like a likeable guy and has an offensive system with success that’s gotten guys to the pros. Maybe he’s lazy? Or he’s limiting his target pool too much?

 

All I know is the few games I’ve watched this is the most unathletic Irish team I’ve seen, not sure we will make the NIT this year.

 

 

 

I whole heartily disagree. I think Brey is a very good recruiter. He has a great offensive system. He finds players that fit that system. To me recruiting is about getting players that fit your teams style, the school and the program. Its not just about getting the best athlete. He has a certain type of player he looks for and he has been very successful with that type of player.

 

It's not that he can't get one and dones. I think it is more he doesn't necessarily see them fit his philosophy. I think it would have to be a perfect situation.

 

His offense is predicated on his players reading the defense and taking what they give you. This requires his players to be very familiar with each other and know what the other is going to do. They all have to be very much on the same page and move the ball around and find the best shot given to them. This is why he prefers to have veteran teams with high basketball IQ's .

 

So, he wants kids to stay 3 or 4 yrs. This is why this team is struggling right now on offense. (although they looked very good yesterday.) They just need more time together and I think they are going to be very good. They are still learning how to break down defenses together and get the best shot possible.

 

I also have to disagree with the unathletic statement.

[Domers23 61]

Brey is limited because ND won't allow him to recruit one and done guys.

 

If by this you mean that college basketball recruiting is slimier than football recruiting and Brey refuses/isn't allowed to participate then I agree. A lot of these guys won't give ND the time of day because of this.

[tneun89 978]

He had a Top 10 class last year, with 4 of the 5 recruits being in the Top 100.

 

Jerian Grant, Eric Atkins, and Demetrius Jackson were big time recruits (Jackson was a McDonalds All American). DJ Harvey was also a big time recruit.

 

He may not get 5 star guys, but he does pretty well for a football school.

[Dardo 17]

Brey is limited because ND won't allow him to recruit one and done guys.

 

ND definitely allows him to recruit one and dones, since he is currently recruiting Cole Anthony. It's more that most kids that think they are a one and done doesn't want to have to go to school for a year, when they can go elsewhere and dick around.

[Jersey Irish 205]

Brey is limited because ND won't allow him to recruit one and done guys.

 

Bingo! That great bastion of academia, Duke, revived Coach K's career by allowing one and dones.

Brey does a great job to get player sin the ND mold and they are a tough out in the ACC, the country's top conference, every season. Kudos to Brey!

[BrianKellyWasNotTheMan 12]

Bingo! That great bastion of academia, Duke, revived Coach K's career by allowing one and dones.

Brey does a great job to get player sin the ND mold and they are a tough out in the ACC, the country's top conference, every season. Kudos to Brey!

 

ND I’m sure would allow one and dones. If there’s a scholarship open why not?

[ndomer4 532]

I whole heartily disagree. I think Brey is a very good recruiter. He has a great offensive system. He finds players that fit that system. To me recruiting is about getting players that fit your teams style, the school and the program. Its not just about getting the best athlete. He has a certain type of player he looks for and he has been very successful with that type of player.

 

It's not that he can't get one and dones. I think it is more he doesn't necessarily see them fit his philosophy. I think it would have to be a perfect situation.

 

His offense is predicated on his players reading the defense and taking what they give you. This requires his players to be very familiar with each other and know what the other is going to do. They all have to be very much on the same page and move the ball around and find the best shot given to them. This is why he prefers to have veteran teams with high basketball IQ's .

 

So, he wants kids to stay 3 or 4 yrs. This is why this team is struggling right now on offense. (although they looked very good yesterday.) They just need more time together and I think they are going to be very good. They are still learning how to break down defenses together and get the best shot possible.

 

I also have to disagree with the unathletic statement.

 

Still disagreeing with the unathletic statement?

[tneun89 978]

Still disagreeing with the unathletic statement?

 

It's not that they're unathletic - it's that they're incredibly young and can't hit open shots right now. Plus, they are losing the second half of these games because they have a short bench due to injuries and transfers.

 

Look at the recruiting rankings and the top offers for the guys who played extensive minutes today:

 

T.J. Gibbs (Jr.) - #80 overall (ESPN), #62 overall (Rivals) (Miami, Oklahoma, UVA)

Dane Goodwin (Fr.) - #80 overall (ESPN), #110 overall (Rivals) (OSU - commit, Villanova)

Prentiss Hubb (Fr.) - #98 overall (ESPN), #99 overall (Rivals) (Maryland, UVA, Xavier)

Nate Laszewski (Fr.) - #54 overall (ESPN), #56 overall (Rivals) (UNC, Villanova, UVA)

D.J. Harvey (So.) - #53 overall (ESPN), #51 overall (Rivals) (Arizona, Duke, Villanova)

John Mooney (Jr.) - N/A (ESPN), #144 overall (Rivals) (ASU, Florida, Wake Forest)

 

The common theme - all Top 100 players except Mooney, who by the way leads the ACC in double-doubles after going for 19 and 16 today.

 

Three freshman are getting extensive minutes. A fourth Robby Carmody, is another Top 100 player who had offers from Louisville, Michigan, Ohio State, and Syracuse, among others.

 

Juwan Durham was out with an ankle injury. He transferred from UConn after being a Top 50 recruit with offers from Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Louisville, and Syracuse.

 

This team is incredibly young and has a short bench due to injuries (Rex Pflueger, Carmody, Durham) and transfers (Elijah Burns), which is forcing them to play the young guys too much and a guy in Djogo who doesn't belong in the ACC.

 

I don't see a lack of athleticism. This week, this team went toe-to-toe with UNC and NC State, both Top 25 teams. They just don't have a guy who can knock down key shots right now, and they don't have legs in the second half because they are only playing 6 guys (7 if you include Djogo).

 

It is incredibly frustrating watching this team. They will struggle to win conference games the rest of the year. But this is a young and talented team - filled with former Top 100 recruits who had offers from major basketball powers - and all return next season, including Rex Pflueger. I am excited for the future, despite how this season is going.

[ndomer4 532]

It's not that they're unathletic - it's that they're incredibly young and can't hit open shots right now. Plus, they are losing the second half of these games because they have a short bench due to injuries and transfers.

 

Look at the recruiting rankings and the top offers for the guys who played extensive minutes today:

 

T.J. Gibbs (Jr.) - #80 overall (ESPN), #62 overall (Rivals) (Miami, Oklahoma, UVA)

Dane Goodwin (Fr.) - #80 overall (ESPN), #110 overall (Rivals) (OSU - commit, Villanova)

Prentiss Hubb (Fr.) - #98 overall (ESPN), #99 overall (Rivals) (Maryland, UVA, Xavier)

Nate Laszewski (Fr.) - #54 overall (ESPN), #56 overall (Rivals) (UNC, Villanova, UVA)

D.J. Harvey (So.) - #53 overall (ESPN), #51 overall (Rivals) (Arizona, Duke, Villanova)

John Mooney (Jr.) - N/A (ESPN), #144 overall (Rivals) (ASU, Florida, Wake Forest)

 

The common theme - all Top 100 players except Mooney, who by the way leads the ACC in double-doubles after going for 19 and 16 today.

 

Three freshman are getting extensive minutes. A fourth Robby Carmody, is another Top 100 player who had offers from Louisville, Michigan, Ohio State, and Syracuse, among others.

 

Juwan Durham was out with an ankle injury. He transferred from UConn after being a Top 50 recruit with offers from Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Louisville, and Syracuse.

 

This team is incredibly young and has a short bench due to injuries (Rex Pflueger, Carmody, Durham) and transfers (Elijah Burns), which is forcing them to play the young guys too much and a guy in Djogo who doesn't belong in the ACC.

 

I don't see a lack of athleticism. This week, this team went toe-to-toe with UNC and NC State, both Top 25 teams. They just don't have a guy who can knock down key shots right now, and they don't have legs in the second half because they are only playing 6 guys (7 if you include Djogo).

 

It is incredibly frustrating watching this team. They will struggle to win conference games the rest of the year. But this is a young and talented team - filled with former Top 100 recruits who had offers from major basketball powers - and all return next season, including Rex Pflueger. I am excited for the future, despite how this season is going.

 

I’m comparing this team to past Brey teams, and to that standard they are by far the most unathletic I’ve seen.

 

This isn’t just an eye test thing, the record speaks for itself. We also can’t use the young team excuse because every team in major college ball is young.

 

Recruiting rankings don’t prove anything, our most athletic guys are probably Hubb and Gibbs, both aren’t great scorers though. I don’t see anyone like DJ, Jerian, Pat, etc...

 

We lack long, rangy guys who can run and move laterally. Watching UVA and Duke, both these teams are littered with these guys.

[LasVegasIrish 0]

I guess it depends on your definition of athletic, reading the back and forth between you guys. I think this team is certainly athletic.

 

Hubb just needs to add weight. He’s fast and can drive, but he gets bullied by stronger players if he doesn’t have a clean rim.

 

Mooney is a stretch four in the same way many of the “white” fours have been for Coach Brey. He’s just as athletic as of them before him. Durham is tremendously athletic and has length ND never has. Needs to stay on the court though and develop physically as well.

 

Gibbs could throw a few more pounds on as well. I’ve noticed this season he hasn’t been able to finish around the basket. He’s certainly fast though.

 

Watch the second half of the game today and tell me Goodwin isn’t athletic. He will be a tremendous player for coach Brey down the road.

 

Harvey is still coming off the injury. You can tell his athleticism isn’t what it was. Gotta hope he gets back to that.

 

Las, like many of the other players needs to get stronger. He looks a tad slow next to other guys, and hopefully he can gain some speed as the years go on. If he becomesthe spot up shooter many feel he will be, everything will be fine with him.

 

Djogo is extremely athletic overall, but his game is raw in almost every facet and he can’t shoot a lick.

 

This team doesn’t lack athleticism imo. They are young and have a lost a ton of depth with the Burns transfer and Carmody and Pflueger injuries.

 

Unless you’re Duke, Kentucky, Kansas etc. it’s hard to throw out 3-4 freshman as big minute players and be successful.

[tneun89 978]

I’m comparing this team to past Brey teams, and to that standard they are by far the most unathletic I’ve seen.

 

This isn’t just an eye test thing, the record speaks for itself. We also can’t use the young team excuse because every team in major college ball is young.

 

Recruiting rankings don’t prove anything, our most athletic guys are probably Hubb and Gibbs, both aren’t great scorers though. I don’t see anyone like DJ, Jerian, Pat, etc...

 

We lack long, rangy guys who can run and move laterally. Watching UVA and Duke, both these teams are littered with these guys.

 

The most unathletic team of the Brey era? Did you watch ND basketball in the early 2000s? I get that this team isn't good, but come on.

 

Maybe we're talking about two different things. But if you look at any ND team pre-2010, I would say the majority, if not all, of those teams were less athletic than this one. I dont think even a really good team, like 2010-2011, has more athleticism than this team. And recruiting rankings absolutely matter - Brey wasn't pulling multiple Top 100 recruits in a single recruiting class back in those days, much less four Top 100 recruits in one class like he did last year. These current players had offers from Duke, UNC, Virginia, Villanova, etc., and they are big time players with great athleticism and ability. But it's hard to see that this year because they are young and the team is just not good. Also, ND can use the "young team" excuse because ND is not Duke, Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, etc. ND has been a Top 25 program under Brey, but they aren't getting multiple Top 20/Top 30 recruits in every class. When the class consists of players ranked 50-100 in the ESPN100, then it's going to take time for those guys to develop. ND isn't getting any one-and-dones.

 

Demetrious Jackson, Jerian Grant, and Pat Connaughton were members of one of the best stretches in ND basketball history. Back-to-back Elite Eights is an incredible accomplishment, and those guys all played key roles. So, yes, if you're comparing this team to those teams, then you're absolutely right, those teams are more athletic. But those are some of the best teams in ND history.

 

I think there is a recency bias here because since 2014-2015, ND has been a consistent Top 20/Top 15 program. This is the first year since 2013-2014 where ND is going to finish under .500. So, if you are comparing this team to the most recent Brey teams, then I agree with you. But if you look at the Brey teams of the early 2000s and 2010s, then I would unequivocally say that this team is more athletic and more talented, with the potential to be much better in a year or two. It is just hard to see that right now because they can't win a game.

[ndomer4 532]

The most unathletic team of the Brey era? Did you watch ND basketball in the early 2000s? I get that this team isn't good, but come on.

 

Maybe we're talking about two different things. But if you look at any ND team pre-2010, I would say the majority, if not all, of those teams were less athletic than this one. I dont think even a really good team, like 2010-2011, has more athleticism than this team. And recruiting rankings absolutely matter - Brey wasn't pulling multiple Top 100 recruits in a single recruiting class back in those days, much less four Top 100 recruits in one class like he did last year. These current players had offers from Duke, UNC, Virginia, Villanova, etc., and they are big time players with great athleticism and ability. But it's hard to see that this year because they are young and the team is just not good. Also, ND can use the "young team" excuse because ND is not Duke, Kansas, UNC, Kentucky, etc. ND has been a Top 25 program under Brey, but they aren't getting multiple Top 20/Top 30 recruits in every class. When the class consists of players ranked 50-100 in the ESPN100, then it's going to take time for those guys to develop. ND isn't getting any one-and-dones.

 

Demetrious Jackson, Jerian Grant, and Pat Connaughton were members of one of the best stretches in ND basketball history. Back-to-back Elite Eights is an incredible accomplishment, and those guys all played key roles. So, yes, if you're comparing this team to those teams, then you're absolutely right, those teams are more athletic. But those are some of the best teams in ND history.

 

I think there is a recency bias here because since 2014-2015, ND has been a consistent Top 20/Top 15 program. This is the first year since 2013-2014 where ND is going to finish under .500. So, if you are comparing this team to the most recent Brey teams, then I agree with you. But if you look at the Brey teams of the early 2000s and 2010s, then I would unequivocally say that this team is more athletic and more talented, with the potential to be much better in a year or two. It is just hard to see that right now because they can't win a game.

 

Good point my friend, I started watching ND basketball in 07. While those teams were probably on par for athleticism with these, they were astounding at shooting the 3.

[tneun89 978]

Good point my friend, I started watching ND basketball in 07. While those teams were probably on par for athleticism with these, they were astounding at shooting the 3.

 

Definitely agree with that. McAlarney, Abromaitis, Scott Martin, Hansbrough... all those guys could knock down shots and hit clutch 3's. Definitely missing from this team. I thought Laszewski would be the guy, but he has really struggled so far - shooting 1-16 on 3PT in his last three games. Gibbs and Harvey - probably the two most talented players - have not been able to hit shots or even take good shots. Watching Gibbs this year has been frustrating. It seems like Mooney is the only consistently good player and everyone else is struggling. Feel bad for him because on a better team, Mooney would be garnering more national attention for leading the ACC in double doubles.

[Domers23 61]

I really enjoy watching this team. I can see the progression. This team will not win very much, but they are young. Brey's offense is not geared to young players and teams not used to playing with each other. It is going to be a learning curve. We knew that. I had no expectations this year.

 

With that said this team took great strides forward in the last game. The offense looked the most like a Brey offense is supposed to more consistently than in any other game this year. It was great to see. They almost finished. They still made some bad mistakes in the last 5 min., but looked better.

 

Hubb hunted his shot some, but you could tell that he was trying to set his teammates up more. I also saw him for the first time use his body to shade a taller player from blocking his shot on a drive. He made it. He is learning!

 

Goodwin found some confidence and hunted his shot. He reminds me a lot of a little more athletic David Graves.

 

Laz's shot will come. He is just struggling right now. All shooters go through it.

 

Before Sat. Harvey found his 3 point shot. They are just not consistent right now, but there are a ton of good parts here that just need time to mesh.

 

Brey's teams will never be as athletic as a Duke or Ken., but his mature teams have high IQ's and are play well together.

[Frankus 197]

The most unathletic team of the Brey era? Did you watch ND basketball in the early 2000s? I get that this team isn't good, but come on.

 

My family has had season tickets since 1968, the first year I watched ND basketball. This is the worst ND team I've ever seen. Why? They are not very athletic- I'd take Ryan Humphrey, Matt Carroll and Troy Murphy from the 2000 team over any of these guys- and they can't shoot.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Frankus

[Domers23 61]

My family has had season tickets since 1968, the first year I watched ND basketball. This is the worst ND team I've ever seen. Why? They are not very athletic- I'd take Ryan Humphrey, Matt Carroll and Troy Murphy from the 2000 team over any of these guys- and they can't shoot.

 

 

Lol. You have clearly blocked out the Macleod years from your memory. (Not hard to do.) Some of those teams were much worse than this one.

 

Who wouldn't take the Humphrey, Carroll, Murphy team over this team? They were very good.

 

The biggest thing with this team is what you said at the end, they can't shoot!

I think it is just that simple. For whatever reason this team can't shoot and score! If they could they would be going to the tournament this year.