Police shootings - Alton Sterling

[Soko 128]

I know we have cops on the board but I'm sorry, that is a flat out execution. Wtf is wrong with people that the people who hold the ultimate power for protecting society are holding guys down and shooting then at point blank range?

 

If this is not a homicide then we might as well just give up.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/

[Kelly Gruene 26]

I know we have cops on the board but I'm sorry, that is a flat out execution. Wtf is wrong with people that the people who hold the ultimate power for protecting society are holding guys down and shooting then at point blank range?

 

If this is not a homicide then we might as well just give up.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/

 

Nothing good about this entire event.

 

I guess an event like this starts with someone disregarding a law, placing either himself or others at risk for physical injury and possibly death.

Often times that person, of whatever race/color/creed, is also mentally impaired either from drugs, alcohol, or biological chemical imbalances causing schizophrenia or depression. Maybe his IQ is in the 50's or 60's.

 

An endangered individual calls for help.

 

Help arrives in a uniform, a person with a family, a person charged with safeguarding himself, his partners, and the community. That person is on high alert.

 

In cases like these the individual causing the disturbance usually does not comply with calls to get down and stay down. There may be a lot of reasons for this, but this seems to be a commonality in all of these types of cases.

The failure to comply heightens the tension and level of alert. Emotions are crazy high and there is now a high risk of injury to multiple parties.

And this is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. How the authority figures respond is of critical importance. There's usually a lot of training involved in how to manage these situations. Yet, when there is a real threat of injury, when the authority figure does not have all the information about whether a suspect is on PCP/meth/anything else but is large and not complying, bad terrible outcomes may occur.

 

This video tells one part of a bigger story containing all of these elements.

 

The authority figures get it right most of the time and that never makes the news. They get it terribly wrong sometimes and that always makes the news. I don't really watch these types of videos anymore because there's always a much bigger picture, regardless of how bad it looks on a 30 second clip.

It would be nice if people 1) never did drugs/alcohol, 2)were never schizophrenic or depressed, 3)never threatened anyone else physically or threatened their property, 4)always obeyed the law. It would be nice if police/FBI/SWAT/ATF personnel 1)always had perfect training from perfect individuals well-versed in personal experience of highly charged moments, 2)always responded perfectly in highly charged moments, and 3)never had to resort to any type of physical contact like tasers or guns or physical restraint.

 

The deaths of so many people at the hands of police always saddens me. But as the Baltimore case and the Ferguson case show, there are so many factors involved and the videos just show the most terrible moment.

The law gets it right the vast majority of the time. No system is perfect and no system ever will be. We just have to keep trying to get it right, to make it better, to minimize the possibility of fatality the next time.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

I know we have cops on the board but I'm sorry, that is a flat out execution. Wtf is wrong with people that the people who hold the ultimate power for protecting society are holding guys down and shooting then at point blank range?

 

If this is not a homicide then we might as well just give up.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/

 

What would you do in that situation? Guy had a gun, they were fighting with him, he reached for said gun when the officer tried to remove it from his pocket which was also one of the reasons this guy was reported in the first place for being armed. Again how would you handle it?

[nickman54 0]

What would you do in that situation? Guy had a gun, they were fighting with him, he reached for said gun when the officer tried to remove it from his pocket which was also one of the reasons this guy was reported in the first place for being armed. Again how would you handle it?

 

Butterfly kisses and sweet nothings in his ear are effective techniques in these situations.

 

 

Alton Sterling was a 37-year-old CD seller who was shot to death in a confrontation outside a convenience store with Baton Rouge police. His death has sparked outrage, protests, and an investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. He was also a registered sex offender with a lengthy criminal record that included weapons offenses, confrontations with police officers (including one in which he was accused of wrestling with a police officer, during which a gun fell from his waistband), property crimes, and domestic violence and other batteries (see all of the court records above).

Edited July 7, 2016 by nickman54

[GunSlinger 28]

Butterfly kisses and sweet nothings in his ear are effective techniques in these situations.

 

 

Alton Sterling was a 37-year-old CD seller who was shot to death in a confrontation outside a convenience store with Baton Rouge police. His death has sparked outrage, protests, and an investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. He was also a registered sex offender with a lengthy criminal record that included weapons offenses, confrontations with police officers (including one in which he was accused of wrestling with a police officer, during which a gun fell from his waistband), property crimes, and domestic violence and other batteries (see all of the court records above).

 

Oh but he was such a sweet gentle giant according to all the news agencies who are reporting. God forbid anybody wait for a complete investigation anymore before blaming the police. The media wants a war, or just to stir up drama to fill up their 24 hour news cycle.

[nickman54 0]

Oh but he was such a sweet gentle giant according to all the news agencies who are reporting. God forbid anybody wait for a complete investigation anymore before blaming the police. The media wants a war, or just to stir up drama to fill up their 24 hour news cycle.

 

thank you for doing a job I wouldn't do for twice my salary. I'll need a pass on my 90 in a 70 zone around Erie next year!

[Soko 128]

What would you do in that situation? Guy had a gun, they were fighting with him, he reached for said gun when the officer tried to remove it from his pocket which was also one of the reasons this guy was reported in the first place for being armed. Again how would you handle it?

 

Shooting the guy in the neck from 6 inches would have not have been on my list of choices. There is nothing in that video that suggest he was reaching for his gun, the officers just saw it in his waistband.

 

If you really need to shoot the guy do you need to execute him? The shooter is going to jail and rightly so. Anything is blind to the facts clearly shown on the video.

[nickman54 0]

Shooting the guy in the neck from 6 inches would have not have been on my list of choices. There is nothing in that video that suggest he was reaching for his gun, the officers just saw it in his waistband.

 

If you really need to shoot the guy do you need to execute him? The shooter is going to jail and rightly so. Anything is blind to the facts clearly shown on the video.

 

Get in the ring and see what happens.. These guys may end up guilty but you really can't say anything from the video

[Soko 128]

Get in the ring and see what happens.. These guys may end up guilty but you really can't say anything from the video

 

The video is pretty clear to me. He had 2 officers on top of him and one of them shot him in the chest from point blank range. The debate will be over access to the gun but I cannot believe executing the guy was the best option available.

[nickman54 0]

The video is pretty clear to me. He had 2 officers on top of him and one of them shot him in the chest from point blank range. The debate will be over access to the gun but I cannot believe executing the guy was the best option available.

 

I'll wait for more facts before I'll accuse someone of an execution.

[Soko 128]

I'll wait for more facts before I'll accuse someone of an execution.

 

Watch these videos.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/06/new-video-shows-alton-sterling-was-not-holding-a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.html

 

http://www.worldstaruncut.com/uncut/96137

Edited July 7, 2016 by Soko

[echo88 74]

I'd rather he be shot and killed than for any more of my tax dollars to go toward making sure pieces of sh*t like him live more comfortably in prison than most of our nation's poor do in their own neighborhoods.

[GunSlinger 28]

Watch these videos.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/06/new-video-shows-alton-sterling-was-not-holding-a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.html

 

http://www.worldstaruncut.com/uncut/96137

 

Hmm... I hear somebody, most likely the officer near the suspect's waistband yell he's got a gun, then yells he's going for the gun. The suspect's right hand is clearly not visible which he definitely can be reaching for a gun or whatever he has concealed in his pocket, which at that specific moment those officer's believed he had a gun, never mind the initial dispatch that suspect was threatening somebody with a gun. After the shots the officer retrieves and unknown item from suspects right pocket, presumably a gun but I can't tell from the video, but of course I'll wait for facts before judging officers in a struggle with a hardened convicted criminal. The video definitely shows that clear commands were given and not followed by the suspect, what a surprise.

[echo88 74]

The video is pretty clear to me. He had 2 officers on top of him and one of them shot him in the chest from point blank range. The debate will be over access to the gun but I cannot believe executing the guy was the best option available.

 

The bitch of the job of police officer is that everyone expects you to keep them safe, but that everyone also wants to critique your job with surveillance angles and assumptions. If I'm on top of a career criminal and I even have the slightest inkling that he is going for a weapon or that he has any intention whatsoever of taking my life....that is a dead motherfu(ker. Tax-paying, law abiding citizen lives to see another day. Lowlife social leech doesn't.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

Shooting the guy in the neck from 6 inches would have not have been on my list of choices. There is nothing in that video that suggest he was reaching for his gun, the officers just saw it in his waistband.

 

If you really need to shoot the guy do you need to execute him? The shooter is going to jail and rightly so. Anything is blind to the facts clearly shown on the video.

 

So what's your choice to handle this situation? I see tons of Monday morning quarterbacks from the press, politicians, and others who offer no input. For crying out loud the guy pulled a gun on another person, which is a felony. He is a felon and was on probation thereby making him ineligible to possess said firearm that was in his possession, and are also felonies. He knew he was in deep crap and would be going away for a very long time. This guy is a walking billboard as to why gun control doesn't work. He was armed, already threatened one person with the gun, was fighting with the police and not giving up. What was done appeared to be necessary to protect the public and the officers from this violent predator.

 

You shoot to stop the threat period. There's no winging him or some other Hollywood BS. Our job sometimes requires the use of violence, which is 100% unpleasant to view, but remains necessary to protect the public and officers involved. This WAS NOT the offender who was fighting for his life, it was the officers fighting to save theirs! This was a good shoot, and the officers will be fine at all levels of the investigation contrary to the Monday morning QB's viewing a 30 second clip of the incident.

[Soko 128]

So what's your choice to handle this situation? I see tons of Monday morning quarterbacks from the press, politicians, and others who offer no input. For crying out loud the guy pulled a gun on another person, which is a felony. He is a felon and was on probation thereby making him ineligible to possess said firearm that was in his possession, and are also felonies. He knew he was in deep crap and would be going away for a very long time. This guy is a walking billboard as to why gun control doesn't work. He was armed, already threatened one person with the gun, was fighting with the police and not giving up. What was done appeared to be necessary to protect the public and the officers from this violent predator.

 

You shoot to stop the threat period. There's no winging him or some other Hollywood BS. Our job sometimes requires the use of violence, which is 100% unpleasant to view, but remains necessary to protect the public and officers involved. This WAS NOT the offender who was fighting for his life, it was the officers fighting to save theirs! This was a good shoot, and the officers will be fine at all levels of the investigation contrary to the Monday morning QB's viewing a 30 second clip of the incident.

 

We have polar opposite views on this. I understand you are a police officer but this is the sort of police behaviour I would expect in South America, not the leading developed country in the world. If there is no other action that can be taken by a cop there other than shooting him in the chest then I'm out, no point in bringing this any further.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

We have polar opposite views on this. I understand you are a police officer but this is the sort of police behaviour I would expect in South America, not the leading developed country in the world. If there is no other action that can be taken by a cop there other than shooting him in the chest then I'm out, no point in bringing this any further.

 

That's the problem, I hear crickets chirping when I asked what else could have been done? Ask any police officer, who's had the training for use of force etc, what they would have done in this exact situation and the response would be draw your gun and the offender is going to get shot. Do you expect us to jump off the guy and find cover whilst he retrieves his gun from his pocket and proceeds to have a shoutout in the parking lot of a gas station? Continue to wrestle around with him for God knows how long hoping he doesn't skin that gun during the struggle shooting both myself and my partner?

 

Yes I get it you are extemely offended that my job is necessarily ugly, violent, and in cases lethal.

[Soko 128]

That's the problem, I hear crickets chirping when I asked what else could have been done? Ask any police officer, who's had the training for use of force etc, what they would have done in this exact situation and the response would be draw your gun and the offender is going to get shot. Do you expect us to jump off the guy and find cover whilst he retrieves his gun from his pocket and proceeds to have a shoutout in the parking lot of a gas station? Continue to wrestle around with him for God knows how long hoping he doesn't skin that gun during the struggle shooting both myself and my partner?

 

Yes I get it you are extemely offended that my job is necessarily ugly, violent, and in cases lethal.

 

 

If 2 cops on top of the guy can't restrain him then maybe they aren't very good at their job. Is shooting him in the heart really necessary? It was a kill shot. Shoot him in the arm maybe if you really think it necessary to fire.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

If 2 cops on top of the guy can't restrain him then maybe they aren't very good at their job. Is shooting him in the heart really necessary? It was a kill shot. Shoot him in the arm maybe if you really think it necessary to fire.

 

Really? Have you been in a fight, a knock down drag out fight with someone? Have you done with rules of engagement that you are required to follow otherwise you get charged with battery, lose your job, get sued, etc etc? I'm 6'04 310 lbs, am an avid workout power lifting guy, who played football and wrestled all the way through college. I took Judo, was a defensive tactics instructor for our department, and am just one of those big bears that people think twice about fighting with.

 

However, I have been in scraps with people half my size who don't have to follow any rules of engagement or worry about whether they leave injuries on me. Sometimes they were on something, other times they weren't. There's been more than a few times it's taken multiple officers to get that person restrained and get the handcuffs on them. And most of those are with someone you "know" is not armed. Insinuating that it makes myself or these officers bad at our job shows real ignorance about this profession and the rules we have to work within to accomplish it safely for all involved. I leave someone battered and bruised unnecessarily it's my ***. Bad guy tunes me up they get a slap on the wrist and turned back on the streets, FACT.

 

Shoot him in the arm? What's that accomplish when he grabs his gun with the other hand and shoots you back. Like I said before none of that Hollywood winging them stuff. But since you tried to offer another way we'll go with it. Regardless if you intended to shoot him in the arm or wherever to "wound" him, that is still recognized universally as lethal force on that individual. The only 100% recognized "kill shot" is to the brain stem, server that and it's all over. Anywhere else is not guaranteed especially with modern medicine. I've seen too many people shot point blank to the skull, taken multiple gunshots to the chest, stab wounds, yada yadda, only to see them walking out of the hospital sometime later. But back to the point, as you say those officers are murderers only because the outcome was he succumbed to his injuries. Yet if you engage him with lethal force by shooting him in the arm and he lives that's the thing that changed. The lethal standard of the force applied to end the engagement is still the same regardless if he lived or died.

[CanadianIrish 0]

This is just a terrible situation for all involved. Regardless if the guy was truly going for a gun or not, millions hiding behind their computers would have thrown all of these officers under the bus. As has been stated multiple times already, I can't comment on what should have/should not have been done because I AM NOT A COP AND DON'T HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN THESE SITUATIONS!

 

That being said, would this scenario not be one where a taser would have been effective? I'm definitely not expert on them, but would it have worked?