Orlando shooting

[CanadianIrish 0]

I know gun issues and immigration are hot button issues, and deservedly so, but I think unfortunately so many people are losing sight of the victims in this tragedy. No one deserves to be slaughtered like an animal, regardless of one's race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. This one person has forever altered the lives of hundreds of families. Robbed dozens of parents of their child, ended marriages, stopped friendships. It is disgusting. My heart breaks for these victims and their friends and families. And perhaps the saddest part of all, is that so many of us are left wondering "I wonder where the next tragic mass shooting is going to happen?"

[Kelly Gruene 26]

I know gun issues and immigration are hot button issues, and deservedly so, but I think unfortunately so many people are losing sight of the victims in this tragedy. No one deserves to be slaughtered like an animal, regardless of one's race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. This one person has forever altered the lives of hundreds of families. Robbed dozens of parents of their child, ended marriages, stopped friendships. It is disgusting. My heart breaks for these victims and their friends and families. And perhaps the saddest part of all, is that so many of us are left wondering "I wonder where the next tragic mass shooting is going to happen?"

 

There really is a huge difference, I think, between a young man who goes off the deep end (so to speak) and shoots 20 people because of perceived bullying versus a young man who shoots 20 people in the name of Allah.

In the first case the families and country are left wondering what happened in that person's background and why did he choose my loved one to shoot?

In the second case, whether it happens here or in Europe or in Pakistan or Afghanistan or in Israel, it breeds more resentment, hatred, and vengeance against all things Islam.

Similarly, when Sunnis blow up Shias and Shiahs blow up Sunnis, it breeds decades and centuries of tribe-on-tribe vengeance.

Very different consequences for similar mass shooting events.

Context is everything.

[CanadianIrish 0]

There really is a huge difference, I think, between a young man who goes off the deep end (so to speak) and shoots 20 people because of perceived bullying versus a young man who shoots 20 people in the name of Allah.

In the first case the families and country are left wondering what happened in that person's background and why did he choose my loved one to shoot?

In the second case, whether it happens here or in Europe or in Pakistan or Afghanistan or in Israel, it breeds more resentment, hatred, and vengeance against all things Islam.

Similarly, when Sunnis blow up Shias and Shiahs blow up Sunnis, it breeds decades and centuries of tribe-on-tribe vengeance.

Very different consequences for similar mass shooting events.

Context is everything.

 

I don't think my point was clear and for that I apologize. What I was trying to get across is that what should matter the most in all of this is the victims. They deserve to be first and foremost in our thoughts and prayers at this time. Whatever reason was behind this senseless act, people died that in no way deserved to. I'd rather see CNN glorify the accomplishments of the victims than the last thoughts of the madman who killed them.

[EddieAngel 508]

There really is a huge difference, I think, between a young man who goes off the deep end (so to speak) and shoots 20 people because of perceived bullying versus a young man who shoots 20 people in the name of Allah.

 

 

This kind of sums up the "appeal" of radical Islam for young men and women. Terrorism and fringe politics have always been appealing for disenchanted youths. I don't think any of these terrorist groups recruit with the pitch, "kill infidels, sacrifice your life for Allah" it is a gradual thing where these people have problems to begin with and find acceptance and an outlet in radical Islam. That said, the Orlando story sounds like a young man tortured by his own latent homosexuality and unable to come to grips with it lashing out as much as it sounds like a kid who got radicalized over the internet. The story thus far is really thin.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc. but whenever that is proposed the right wing nut jobs go bat sheot crazy "obama is taking our guns"

[Soko 128]

You are spot on about the PC aspect. Obama won't say anything about the terror links but will throw out his gun control BS. If this AH was investigated in the past for the stuff that is being discussed now, and who knows what more will come up, HIS administration failed to do something about revoking his gun rights etc and having this AH under surveillance. But he'll blame the gun, the store owner, the manufacturer, the NRA, and the second ammendment for what happened

 

This doesn't make a lick of sense. Do you want people who have been investigated for radical islamic links to have their rights to buy guns revoked or not?

[NDMJ1984 0]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc. but whenever that is proposed the right wing nut jobs go bat sheot crazy "obama is taking our guns"

 

The difference, of course, being that operating a vehicle is a privilege, not a right enshrined in the Constitution by the founders, which explicitly "shall not be infringed." So important was the right to keep and bear arms in the eyes of the founders, that they placed it below only Freedom of Expression on a list consisting of eight other very significant rights of citizenship.

 

Despite all of the regulation of motor vehicles, cars kill roughly 3 times the number of people guns do each year. Among those items more deadly than "assault" weapons are knives, fists, hammers and lightning.

 

Finally, why do "wingnuts" go "bat sheot" crazy over Obama taking our guns:

- From today's Washington Post: "Assault Weapons Must Be Banned" http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/06/14/assault_weapons_must_be_banned_130866.html

- From The New Republic last fall: "Its Time To Ban Guns. Yes, All of Them" https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them

[jessemoore97 1,287]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc. but whenever that is proposed the right wing nut jobs go bat sheot crazy "obama is taking our guns"

 

As mentioned before if we want to have thread about gun rights, we'll make one. I think this one being about terrorism and Islamic extremism is fine without adding another iron to the fire. Matter of fact I will go ahead and start one now.

[Kelly Gruene 26]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc.

 

License at age 16?

[nickman54 0]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc. but whenever that is proposed the right wing nut jobs go bat sheot crazy "obama is taking our guns"

 

 

While we're at it the same should stipulations should be applied in regards to the first amendment...:usa:

[Rocketsan 768]

they should treat guns like cars. registration, testing to get a license etc.

 

Wait a sec...you mean it's not??? Serious question from Canada...

[Donjuan 16]

I don't understand why major corporations have to issue declarations of "standing with Orlando." Isn't that obvious? Who isn't standing with the victims in Orlando? ISIS? Imams? Seems kind of grandstandish to publicly make this statement in the midst of statements. Maybe send help instead like Chick-Fil-A did...

[EddieAngel 508]

I don't understand why major corporations have to issue declarations of "standing with Orlando." Isn't that obvious? Who isn't standing with the victims in Orlando? ISIS? Imams? Seems kind of grandstandish to publicly make this statement in the midst of statements. Maybe send help instead like Chick-Fil-A did...

 

Tragedy brings the best out in the good people in the world, but it also brings out every opportunist. Whether it is political agenda or just wanting to make sure that everyone remembers them in a positive light. Grandstanding is exactly what it is, look at us look at us we care. That is the hallmark of American culture these days, a place where Kardashian is a role model that girls look up to.

[Jim2Dokes 3]

License at age 16?

 

There is no minimum age to use a long gun. And as a minor you can possess and hold a hunting license as a minor.

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Wait a sec...you mean it's not??? Serious question from Canada...

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_576059f3e4b0e4fe5143fd4d

 

Nope

[Irish_Convert 1]

For one thing, the term "assault weapon" gets tossed around way too often because most people equate the term with an automatic rifle/machine gun. An AR-15 style, in this case a Sig Sauer, is not a machine gun. It is a semi-automatic weapon that will fire once every time you pull the trigger. You could pull the trigger one time, stand there, hold it in place for an hour and it would still only fire that one time.

 

According to the 1994 assault weapons, an assault weapon is defined as having three of the following characteristics: A detachable magazine and any two of these; A pistol grip, a collapsible stock, a flash suppressor,a mount for a bayonet or a grenade launcher. When you get right down to it, if you were to mount a flash suppressor to a 9mm semi-auto pistol, presto! You have an assault weapon. Detachable magazine, flash suppressor and pistol grip.

 

Gun control wouldn't have stopped the bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut, the bombing of the USS Cole, the WTC bombing, 9/11, The Boston Marathon attack and it didn't stop the Paris rape spree or Charlie Hebdo. That's just off the top of my head. An Islamic extremist and yes, they do exist, is completely happy to concoct a bomb and blow themselves up along with a dozen innocent people or more.

 

Also, it is foolhardy to try and claim that Islamic extremism doesn't exist. Are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not. The KKK considers themselves to be a Christian organization but does that mean all Christians are KKK members? Of course not but at least they distinguish themselves with their silly get ups, although not as often as in the past.

 

Islamic radicalism/fundamentalism is incompatible with western society. It's not just a religion, it is a legal and political system and not all Muslims worship the same. That's no different from Christianity, which has numerous sub-sects and belief sets. If it wasn't so hypocritical, the way the term right wing extremist is tossed around so casually while suggesting someone could be an Islamic extremist/jihadist is taboo would almost be funny, particularly among certain politicians.

 

This SOB had been on the terror watch list until the Feds decided "Nothing to see here" and took him off. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the screening process involved calling him up and saying "Are you a terrorist? No? Okey-dokey, bye." If he was still on it, he wouldn't have been able to buy these guns legally. He might have been able to still obtain them but he wouldn't pass a background check.

 

It is absolutely inexcusable that in this day and age, with all the surveillance, multiple federal acronym agencies involved and all the technology that something like this happens. On top of that, politicians kiss these Middle Eastern countries' backsides, provide aid, support to them and still chastise people here for being homophobic, while many of those same countries have laws that either outlaw homosexuality or make it punishable by death.

 

I don't care if only one out of every thousand Muslims is an extremist, that's 1,500,000 or so too many.

 

End rant, that is all. Sorry for getting long winded but this topic makes my blood boil.

[Soko 128]

This SOB had been on the terror watch list until the Feds decided "Nothing to see here" and took him off. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the screening process involved calling him up and saying "Are you a terrorist? No? Okey-dokey, bye." If he was still on it, he wouldn't have been able to buy these guns legally. He might have been able to still obtain them but he wouldn't pass a background check.

 

It is absolutely inexcusable that in this day and age, with all the surveillance, multiple federal acronym agencies involved and all the technology that something like this happens.

 

He was never on any terror list permanently and while he was interviewed by the feds, they decided in their wisdom he did not meet the threshold required to stay on the terror watch list (despite is looking like he clearly should have been on it - shooting incident excluded). Even if he was on a list he would have been able to purchase all of the guns he bought legally and do what he did. A bill to block people on this list was proposed by GW Bush, taken up again by Obama but ultimately shot down by the limp dick congressmen who fear a ****ing gun lobby more than they do care about actually doing something that is logical and fair.

 

 

There are 42,000+ people on the no fly list in the US!! You simply cannot put that many people under constant surveillance and lowering the threshold for this will make it even more difficult. However maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea to stop them legally buying guns. Yes they can still obtain weapons if their heart does desire but wouldn't it be a start to stop actually helping them?

[Tenacious_ND 0]

License at age 16?

 

im from NW PA in 6th grade we had hunter safety class and shot 22's.

[coltssb 1,044]

I don't understand why major corporations have to issue declarations of "standing with Orlando." Isn't that obvious? Who isn't standing with the victims in Orlando? ISIS? Imams? Seems kind of grandstandish to publicly make this statement in the midst of statements. Maybe send help instead like Chick-Fil-A did...

 

Chick-Fil-A DID send help. But they also grandstanded afterwards. See, everybody thinks we hate gays etc. but look at us. I read an article on it. Just do it and keep your mouth shut.

[Kelly Gruene 26]

There is no minimum age to use a long gun. And as a minor you can possess and hold a hunting license as a minor.

 

Each state has its own laws regarding (1) hunting, and (2) owning/purchasing/possessing firearms.

 

http://gothunts.com/hunting-age-requirements/

 

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/state-minimum-age-purchase-possess-guns/

 

A 10 year-old cannot legally own/purchase/possess a gun in any state, but can hunt in almost every state.