Orlando shooting

[jessemoore97 1,287]

Tough stuff there folks. Truly horrible attack. Prayers to all the victims, their families, first responders, and medical staff involved. God Bless.

 

To my fellow sheepdogs on the board, stay safe and watch your six. Regardless of the public's perception of us, we are still the first one's called and go running into that hail of bullets from deranged POS like this AH.

[ELDER06 248]

Tough stuff there folks. Truly horrible attack. Prayers to all the victims, their families, first responders, and medical staff involved. God Bless.

 

To my fellow sheepdogs on the board, stay safe and watch your six. Regardless of the public's perception of us, we are still the first one's called and go running into that hail of bullets from deranged POS like this AH.

 

The Orlando PD saved 30 hostages, but I'm not reading one word in the media about their heroics. More than likely bc it doesn't fit the narrative of cops being evil racists.

 

Let's be honest, you're fooling your self if you think this is only a gun issue. The guys was an Islamist extremist with ties to ISIS. I know our pvssy President won't say it, but I will. Nobody will admit it, but in Saudi Arabia being gay is a capital offense and in the more advanced Muslim countries they throw gays off the top of buildings. But hey whatever, as long as we stay PC.

[ndomer4 532]

No surprise ISIS was involved, such a sad thing to happen. It seems to me this sort of stuff has been happening way too often in the States, if it isn't an elementary school it's something else.

 

I wanna hear what some of your opinions are on the gun laws? Which IMO is the biggest problem for you guys. Clearly not everyone should have a gun, it would definitely cut down the mass shootings which happen it seems every week or so.

 

I think there needs to be some serious restrictions on who carries guns and why. You can have the debate all you want that people kill people not guns but noone really needs a gun ever other than fighting and the police. To compare to Canada this type of stuff rarely happens if ever, maybe once every blue moon. Basically the only people who have guns here are hunters and the odd gang members who smuggle them in.

 

Now to this ISIS garbage it has gotten out of control and will only get worse. I think having Trump as president might be a good thing because I know he will put a stop to it. I think Trudeau should take his stance on not allowing the people in our country because only bad stuff happens with these people coming here.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

The Orlando PD saved 30 hostages, but I'm not reading one word in the media about their heroics. More than likely bc it doesn't fit the narrative of cops being evil racists.

 

Let's be honest, you're fooling your self if you think this is only a gun issue. The guys was an Islamist extremist with ties to ISIS. I know our pvssy President won't say it, but I will. Nobody will admit it, but in Saudi Arabia being gay is a capital offense and in the more advanced Muslim countries they throw gays off the top of buildings. But hey whatever, as long as we stay PC.

 

Yeah was that when they went crashing through a wall with one of those bullet proof MRAP/APC with guys carrying AR's wearing tactical gear like bullet proof vests etc. You know that life saving military style equipment the left rails against and Obama has been going around taking back from LEO's because he doesn't think we need military surplus etc to do our jobs. Weird how it's not being reported, perhaps it's because it runs against their agenda.

 

You are spot on about the PC aspect. Obama won't say anything about the terror links but will throw out his gun control BS. If this AH was investigated in the past for the stuff that is being discussed now, and who knows what more will come up, HIS administration failed to do something about revoking his gun rights etc and having this AH under surveillance. But he'll blame the gun, the store owner, the manufacturer, the NRA, and the second ammendment for what happened.

 

You're right again about the cultural differences regarding Muslim countries and the Democratic ideals of the West. Regardless if I support one lifestyle or another, we have laws that openly protect people's rights and they openly suppress those rights.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

No surprise ISIS was involved, such a sad thing to happen. It seems to me this sort of stuff has been happening way too often in the States, if it isn't an elementary school it's something else.

 

I wanna hear what some of your opinions are on the gun laws? Which IMO is the biggest problem for you guys. Clearly not everyone should have a gun, it would definitely cut down the mass shootings which happen it seems every week or so.

 

I think there needs to be some serious restrictions on who carries guns and why. You can have the debate all you want that people kill people not guns but noone really needs a gun ever other than fighting and the police. To compare to Canada this type of stuff rarely happens if ever, maybe once every blue moon. Basically the only people who have guns here are hunters and the odd gang members who smuggle them in.

 

Now to this ISIS garbage it has gotten out of control and will only get worse. I think having Trump as president might be a good thing because I know he will put a stop to it. I think Trudeau should take his stance on not allowing the people in our country because only bad stuff happens with these people coming here.

 

I'm very pro gun rights myself, and having been in LE for 18 years my position has only been strengthened. I don't have time to go into all of my views now, nor am I certain aspects of that argument need to go under this thread which should focus more on how to identify and stop terrorists. But if you have time check out the actual statistics regarding gun crime and mass shootings, and the bans the gun control advocates and the left wish to impose. Specifically pay attention to types of weapons used and the HUGE disparities that exist in those stats. Maybe we should start a seperate thread about gun stuff for in the near future.

[EddieAngel 508]

Someone help me understand how one individual reportedly armed with a handgun was able to kill 50 and wound 53? Something does not add up.

 

 

Ah, I see he apparently was carrying an assault rifle as well. Still seems strange he was able to kill so many... Bad stuff, world is a bad place.

Edited June 12, 2016 by EddieAngel

[ndomer4 532]

Someone help me understand how one individual reportedly armed with a handgun was able to kill 50 and wound 53? Something does not add up.

 

 

Ah, I see he apparently was carrying an assault rifle as well. Still seems strange he was able to kill so many... Bad stuff, world is a bad place.

 

Was reading an article that said he may have had explosives with him, cops are still looking into it though.

[ELDER06 248]

Someone help me understand how one individual reportedly armed with a handgun was able to kill 50 and wound 53? Something does not add up.

 

 

Ah, I see he apparently was carrying an assault rifle as well. Still seems strange he was able to kill so many... Bad stuff, world is a bad place.

 

You think ISIS has a shortage of assault weapons?

[ELDER06 248]

Btw, when did Smith and Wesson become a religion? Is that Allah guy out of the picture now? Face it, it's an Islam issue more than a gun issue. Sick of innocent people dying because nobody wants to address the elephant in the room?

[jessemoore97 1,287]

Someone help me understand how one individual reportedly armed with a handgun was able to kill 50 and wound 53? Something does not add up.

 

 

Ah, I see he apparently was carrying an assault rifle as well. Still seems strange he was able to kill so many... Bad stuff, world is a bad place.

 

It's not so hard to believe in this day and age. We have entire college campuses who need to have trigger warning sent out to people ahead of time so they can go to their safe spaces where they feel protected from speech and ideas that may be a little different than what they believe. Or they will fight and riot over words because they have been micro-aggressed.

 

What the heck do we expect from our society when confronted by an actual life or death situation? Instead of getting out their goddamn phones to either record it or text, Twitter, or whatever people do these days, how about working up some intestinal fortitude to either flee or fight the SoB! Most active shooters will flee and kill themselves, or at least flee, if confronted by force. Why because these AH's are cowards who pick their soft targets knowing ahead of time that they will meet little to no resistance from an armed individual. Gun free zones are a joke, and obviously the evil criminal elements abide by those rules.

 

I'll make no bones about it, I'm a fighter. My family knows to get the hell out of Dodge when it hits the fan, but knows I'll be staying armed or not to do what needs to be done. It's not in me to stand by and do nothing or watch from the sidelines, action must be taken. I will at least know if I die I tried my very best to fight rather than be a victim cowering in a corner waiting for some POS to walk up to me and put a contact shot to my temple.

 

In hindsight, do we think a group of people will let someone take over a plane with box cutters anymore? Probably not, but you never know. Be a sheepdog or be a sheep when the wolves come.

[davislove 0]

I'm very pro gun rights myself, and having been in LE for 18 years my position has only been strengthened. I don't have time to go into all of my views now, nor am I certain aspects of that argument need to go under this thread which should focus more on how to identify and stop terrorists. But if you have time check out the actual statistics regarding gun crime and mass shootings, and the bans the gun control advocates and the left wish to impose. Specifically pay attention to types of weapons used and the HUGE disparities that exist in those stats. Maybe we should start a seperate thread about gun stuff for in the near future.

 

I get the anger, but I don't think arming a bunch of idiots hopped up on liquid courage is gonna make the world a safer place. I don't think peaceful protest and marches are the answer either. We need to put politics aside and come up with real solutions.

 

Sometimes we forget we ARE at war. We don't advertise our bombings and killing overseas so it often seems like we're the only ones being hurt.

[jessemoore97 1,287]

I get the anger, but I don't think arming a bunch of idiots hopped up on liquid courage is gonna make the world a safer place. I don't think peaceful protest and marches are the answer either. We need to put politics aside and come up with real solutions.

 

Sometimes we forget we ARE at war. We don't advertise our bombings and killing overseas so it often seems like we're the only ones being hurt.

 

I don't think I mentioned anything about arming anyone, let alone portraying those that do own firearms as drunken idiots.

 

One of the reasons we don't advertise is because the isn't much there. Since day one there has been little done by this president to fight the war.

[edcubby 2]

I don't own a gun...but I have no issues whatsoever with gun owners.

 

I also do believe that this is only the beginning of these solo Islamic attacks...California and now Florida. The President is scum...he is. He believes that if he calls out these low lifes they will be offended and God forbid we do that!!!

 

There MFers act like the old bully on the playground...and will do **** to us and laugh unless you absolutely hammer them!! Fight in their back yard...hunt them.

 

That was the lesson after 9/11...the Taliban was removed, Saddam killed, my man Gaddafi turned over power to stay in power (albeit before being killed) and no Islamic attacks here for years.

 

These people are subhuman and have no respect for life...

[jessemoore97 1,287]

I don't own a gun...but I have no issues whatsoever with gun owners.

 

I also do believe that this is only the beginning of these solo Islamic attacks...California and now Florida. The President is scum...he is. He believes that if he calls out these low lifes they will be offended and God forbid we do that!!!

 

There MFers act like the old bully on the playground...and will do **** to us and laugh unless you absolutely hammer them!! Fight in their back yard...hunt them.

 

That was the lesson after 9/11...the Taliban was removed, Saddam killed, my man Gaddafi turned over power to stay in power (albeit before being killed) and no Islamic attacks here for years.

 

These people are subhuman and have no respect for life...

 

I agree that the attacks will continue in some form or another, it's been going on as far back as the Munich Olympics. The frequency gone up at least outside of the ME. In this day and age of 24 hour news cycles, internet, and social media these AH can watch their carnage all day long and pleasure themselves to it. It's the perfect breeding grounds to foster the lone nuts across all spectrums. These jerks will get their name splashed everywhere and get their 15 minutes of fame. They will get it done by whatever means are available to them.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about hunting them down and destroying them. No pussyfooting around with these folks, the most dedicated wins. This president has shown very little dedication to that effort and the world has suffered.

[davislove 0]

I don't think I mentioned anything about arming anyone, let alone portraying those that do own firearms as drunken idiots.

 

One of the reasons we don't advertise is because the isn't much there. Since day one there has been little done by this president to fight the war.

 

You're right, you didn't say that. I got ahead of myself thinking this topic was gonna lead to suggesting arming everyone.

 

Didn't we just take out the Taliban leader a few weeks ago? doesn't that count for something? Hasn't he been wiping out al Qaeda's leaders at a record pace? He just won't label all Muslims terrorist--and he shouldn't.

[davislove 0]

I agree that the attacks will continue in some form or another, it's been going on as far back as the Munich Olympics. The frequency gone up at least outside of the ME. In this day and age of 24 hour news cycles, internet, and social media these AH can watch their carnage all day long and pleasure themselves to it. It's the perfect breeding grounds to foster the lone nuts across all spectrums. These jerks will get their name splashed everywhere and get their 15 minutes of fame. They will get it done by whatever means are available to them.

 

I agree wholeheartedly about hunting them down and destroying them. No pussyfooting around with these folks, the most dedicated wins. This president has shown very little dedication to that effort and the world has suffered.

 

I respect you and if you want me to shut up and go away I will. Like I said before I get the anger but now what? Who are you gonna hunt down? Both Obama and Bush had/have the capability to turn the ME into a parking lot but that ain't happening. Unless you want to kick out all Muslims or put them in a camp, what do you do? It's time for real solutions not just tough talk.

[Rocketsan 768]

Doesn't matter what party or president you have...your country is in deep. So is ours... So is every other nation. This is the new normal... Scary times ahead.

[davislove 0]

Doesn't matter what party or president you have...your country is in deep. So is ours... So is every other nation. This is the new normal... Scary times ahead.

 

You're right Rocky, this is the new normal. What frustrates me is there are no reasonable solutions out there. It's either protest peacefully which don't work, or take it out on all brown people which I can't imagine would happen.

 

I'm a firm believer that there are 3 sides to a story and we're only getting one side. I don't believe what Bush said that they hate for our freedoms. We're pawns in a chess game.

[Kelly Gruene 26]

Both Obama and Bush had/have the capability to turn the ME into a parking lot but that ain't happening. Unless you want to kick out all Muslims or put them in a camp, what do you do? It's time for real solutions not just tough talk.

 

I don't think there are, or ever will be, real solutions.

The politics of Islam are insanely difficult.

How media covers anything Islam is crazy.

A great example of the difficulty is in the news this week and last week: Fallujah.

We read that 'Iraqi forces' are about to kick ISIS out of Fallujah. Sounds great, right?

But when you look at the details, it's really pretty terrible. It isn't the Iraqi army about to go into 100% Sunni Fallujah. Nope. It's entirely Iranian Shia militia who are being allowed to fly the Iraqi flag so that the Iraqi entirely Sunni military won't fire on them as they drive into the heart of 100% Sunni Fallujah. It's going to be an Islamic bloodletting of the worst kind, driving anyone not Shia out. A massive revenge killing of ISIS (entirely Sunni) and the Sunni population who have supported ISIS in Fallujah. Shia from Iran killing Sunnis from Iraq under the flag and approval of the Iraqi Shia-majority (but only a 60% of the population) government. The conquered Sunnis will just move north and west into more strongly held Sunni territory and the Shia from Iran are not likely to go there. And remember that beside Iran (90%) and Iraq (60%), there are no other significant countries in the entire world with Shia-majority Muslims.

That's just one tiny minuscule example of the complexity of the situation. A small town (50,000 inhabitants) where a mass killing is going on. Our media makes it sound like it's a good thing. It's really just Shia on Sunni violence.

 

Kick ISIS? Better know who they are. And where they are. And we don't and we won't. And even if we do, something else will replace them. The history of the Middle East and North Africa is so complex. We can't help those people very much, in my opinion. No matter what anyone who is not Arabic and not Muslim does, it will be interpreted by some large sect or tribe as totally against Allah's will and jihad will be proclaimed.

We need, I suppose, to help the Muslims work it all out. But that just will never ever ever happen.

If you study the history of that religion, it is just too complex to make it work.

No, you can't just throw your arms up and give in. But the politics involved and the media involved just are way too complex to be worked out in a 4 or 8 year US presidential term/media cycle.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Kelly Gruene

[jessemoore97 1,287]

I respect you and if you want me to shut up and go away I will. Like I said before I get the anger but now what? Who are you gonna hunt down? Both Obama and Bush had/have the capability to turn the ME into a parking lot but that ain't happening. Unless you want to kick out all Muslims or put them in a camp, what do you do? It's time for real solutions not just tough talk.

 

I have zero problem with you also, and am happy to have intelligent and civil discussions with people:).

 

I am no expert and as Kelly Gruene posted the ME is an incredibly complex region. To your point about Bush and Obama dealing with this matter that ties into KG post about a single Presidential term or two. Here's my take and I think most would agree. Bush rightly or wrongly got us in there. Obama did not want us there and made much of his campaign about getting us out of both Iraq and Afghanistan, then followed through. But the job wasn't finished by any means. Bringing longer lasting stability to the region in theory would have required our presence in both for a long time. Could we have gotten it done, probably not, because these folks have been feuding with one another since biblical times. Additionally the culture is just so different from ours.

 

I don't want to put them in camps. Heck there are refugee camps in some ME countries that have been there for decades which contain many Palestinians, the same ones they all love to opine about but won't actually help out and integrate into their own societies. Hypocrites. Realistically the ME needs a cultural revolution similar to what happened in Europe centuries ago. That has to come from within by moderates finding their voice and saying enough is enough with the zealots.

Edited June 14, 2016 by jessemoore97