Common Core in the schools

[jessemoore97 1,287]

I've seen the issue of Common Core being brought up a lot lately and its meaningful or detrimental impact on our education system. I'm kind of curious to see others opinions and experiences with it, as well as introduce something new to Open besides the climate change debate over here lol.

 

From my experience with it, my son is 9(finishing 3rd grade soon), is that the math is a bit over-complicated IMO. I usually help my son every night with his homework assignments, especially math because I want him to succeed in school and in an area that I struggled with in HS and college. Usually the homework isn't too terribly bad, however I've seen on quite a few occasions where the method of teaching/learning how to solve simple math problems has taken on an overly complex way of figuring out a simple problem and solution. There are times that I have to read through the problem multiple times in order to determine the solution and then explain it to him usually with the simpler(IMO) methods I was taught. I think that making sure the base foundation of knowing the multiplication tables etc are more important than understanding some of the relationships of numbers CC is trying to instill. Its seems like they are overloading the young kids with some of these concepts too early and putting the cart before the horse.

 

What are everyone's opinions or experiences here?

[TheRizz 5]

The federal government getting into every state in a terrible idea.

 

Common core questions are a joke. Public education stinks and it's getting worse.

[1qa 0]

Common core is a STANDARD ... it describes what kids should know at certain stages. Kids all over the world meet these expectations (on average).

 

Personally, I am fine with the standard. Raise the bar... kids will meet it if they are given support (preferably home) and competent instruction. My kid responded well, but had a great teacher.

 

HOW you teach concepts has nothing to do with the standards... it has to do with teacher competence and curriculum development. Many teachers and districts are simply not prepared to teach to the higher standard... which has kicked off a storm of protest and politicization. Think about it, most teachers are now being asked to teach two grades higher than before... the fourth grade teacher should be in 2nd, and so on... And, the kindergarten teachers are just not equipped to manage a wide variety of readiness... their main role is to "teach" behavior control (how to line up, how to color inside lines, identify numbers and basic words).

[DTCBND03 0]

I've seen the issue of Common Core being brought up a lot lately and its meaningful or detrimental impact on our education system. I'm kind of curious to see others opinions and experiences with it, as well as introduce something new to Open besides the climate change debate over here lol.

 

From my experience with it, my son is 9(finishing 3rd grade soon), is that the math is a bit over-complicated IMO. I usually help my son every night with his homework assignments, especially math because I want him to succeed in school and in an area that I struggled with in HS and college. Usually the homework isn't too terribly bad, however I've seen on quite a few occasions where the method of teaching/learning how to solve simple math problems has taken on an overly complex way of figuring out a simple problem and solution. There are times that I have to read through the problem multiple times in order to determine the solution and then explain it to him usually with the simpler(IMO) methods I was taught. I think that making sure the base foundation of knowing the multiplication tables etc are more important than understanding some of the relationships of numbers CC is trying to instill. Its seems like they are overloading the young kids with some of these concepts too early and putting the cart before the horse.

 

What are everyone's opinions or experiences here?

 

Are you referring to the Engineer Dad who responded to the common core math confusion? Haha really funny and i agree with him. I don't have kids but math is math and should be taught the same way it was taught years ago

 

[corysold 0]

My wife is a second grade teacher and so far has enjoyed the common core math ciricculum. It has changed the way they teach, but in her opinion, gives the kids more freedom to use different ways to manipulate numbers. Though it is a new way, and many parents who learned different are providing pushback, she thinks it is a better way in the long run. Yes, in some cases it is more complicated than it needs to be, but my understanding is that is building skills for later use and providing a base for outside the box thinking when it comes to numbers.

 

How that all plays out, who knows, they are having meetings this week to discuss how the year went. One issue, which isn't so big in 2nd grade, is that kids have been taught a certain way for a few years and are now being asked to switch. As the kindergarten classes start to move through with this being their only exposure, things should run much more smoothly.

 

The downside is teachers are given more freedom in how to teach. As long as standards are met, there isn't much rhyme or reason on how a teacher can get there. My wife has plenty of kids come in who don't use punctuation to write, capitalization or even full sentences because the previous teacher didn't find them necessary. It was easier to get kids to write, the goal, if they weren't required to use sentence structure. One step forward and two back in my opinion, but these things will be worked out.

[1qa 0]

My wife is a second grade teacher and so far has enjoyed the common core math ciricculum. It has changed the way they teach, but in her opinion, gives the kids more freedom to use different ways to manipulate numbers. Though it is a new way, and many parents who learned different are providing pushback, she thinks it is a better way in the long run. Yes, in some cases it is more complicated than it needs to be, but my understanding is that is building skills for later use and providing a base for outside the box thinking when it comes to numbers.

 

How that all plays out, who knows, they are having meetings this week to discuss how the year went. One issue, which isn't so big in 2nd grade, is that kids have been taught a certain way for a few years and are now being asked to switch. As the kindergarten classes start to move through with this being their only exposure, things should run much more smoothly.

 

The downside is teachers are given more freedom in how to teach. As long as standards are met, there isn't much rhyme or reason on how a teacher can get there. My wife has plenty of kids come in who don't use punctuation to write, capitalization or even full sentences because the previous teacher didn't find them necessary. It was easier to get kids to write, the goal, if they weren't required to use sentence structure. One step forward and two back in my opinion, but these things will be worked out.

 

Great post Corysold... i totally agree with CC standard and flexibility.

 

As for math, the example given by DTCBND03 is an example of a BAD worksheet / teaching point. The concept to be hammered is number sense / magnitudes. If you learn numbers in Chinese, math is easier to learn because of way naming in the number system works in their language.... eg. 1, 2 ... 10...then instead of eleven, the literal translation is ten-one, ten-two, ten-three ... and so on... twenty is 2-tens-one.. and so on.

 

there is more than one way to skin a cat..

[DREWGOOSE 1]

I don't have a child young enough for this anymore, so I don't have direct experience with CC. I do however here other family members complain about it a lot. I have sisters and a niece with children going though CC and they have a very hard time helping their kids.

 

Here is an article I found.,.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/common-core-math-homework_n_5330869.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000037

 

and a website were a teacher tries to explain.

 

http://ccss5.com/main/members/Steve/

[piratey 6]

My wife is a second grade teacher and so far has enjoyed the common core math ciricculum. It has changed the way they teach, but in her opinion, gives the kids more freedom to use different ways to manipulate numbers. Though it is a new way, and many parents who learned different are providing pushback, she thinks it is a better way in the long run. Yes, in some cases it is more complicated than it needs to be, but my understanding is that is building skills for later use and providing a base for outside the box thinking when it comes to numbers.

 

How that all plays out, who knows, they are having meetings this week to discuss how the year went. One issue, which isn't so big in 2nd grade, is that kids have been taught a certain way for a few years and are now being asked to switch. As the kindergarten classes start to move through with this being their only exposure, things should run much more smoothly.

 

The downside is teachers are given more freedom in how to teach. As long as standards are met, there isn't much rhyme or reason on how a teacher can get there. My wife has plenty of kids come in who don't use punctuation to write, capitalization or even full sentences because the previous teacher didn't find them necessary. It was easier to get kids to write, the goal, if they weren't required to use sentence structure. One step forward and two back in my opinion, but these things will be worked out.

 

This common core is likely going to blow up and then, once it's gone, you have those kids who learned the old way, the new way and then the old way again. It just seems like we're not addressing the real problem here...

 

We compare miserably against the rest of the developed world in math and it just feels like Common Core was implemented for the sake of being implemented. It's like the Affordable Health Care Act of education. "Who cares if it is grossly flawed and going to fail, at least we tried right!?"

 

There are plenty of good teachers out there to be sure...but when I look back in my life and my K-12 experience...I can count on one hand the number of quality teachers I had. My 5th grade teacher was a fat old troll who essentially read from the text book and gave tests every week. She didn't teach anything, she didn't try to engage the student, just went through the motions. And the problem is, if you try to point out that the people TEACHING are the problem, every good teacher takes offense. Rightfully or wrongfully so...there is just so many bad teachers out there...

 

The American education system is run by standardized testing and the text book manufacturers(who often are hand in hand...look at who writes the Common Core tests...Pearson)

[echo88 74]

The approach used to deliver basic mathematical processes is not the problem---never was. This is yet another example of the liberal knee jerk reaction to frightening statistics. If you want a glimpse of just how pathetic our public school system is, I recommend "Waiting for Superman". Here is my recommendation:

 

1) Eliminate teacher's unions.

2) Institute a performance-based incentives program that rewards innovation and eliminates stagnation.

3) Terminate all lemons.

4) Abandon NASA.

5) Leverage funds to create a public school baseline that remedies inequalities among facilities, technologies, teachers, materials, and curriculum. It's education---not business.

6) Stop coddling children and parents. "No, it actually won't be ok if your kid fails...or if you fail your kid."

7) Position ourselves back in at least the top 3 nations for Science and Math.

8 ) Adopt NASA.

9) Use aforementioned position in science and math to master time travel.

10) Go back in time and smack the sh*t out of our present selves.

[EddieAngel 508]

The approach used to deliver basic mathematical processes is not the problem---never was. This is yet another example of the liberal knee jerk reaction to frightening statistics. If you want a glimpse of just how pathetic our public school system is, I recommend "Waiting for Superman". Here is my recommendation:

 

1) Eliminate teacher's unions.

2) Institute a performance-based incentives program that rewards innovation and eliminates stagnation.

3) Terminate all lemons.

4) Abandon NASA.

5) Leverage funds to create a public school baseline that remedies inequalities among facilities, technologies, teachers, materials, and curriculum. It's education---not business.

6) Stop coddling children and parents. "No, it actually won't be ok if your kid fails...or if you fail your kid."

7) Position ourselves back in at least the top 3 nations for Science and Math.

8 ) Adopt NASA.

9) Use aforementioned position in science and math to master time travel.

10) Go back in time and smack the sh*t out of our present selves.

 

I agree with most of this. Tenure must be teacherese for retirement, because once teachers have it many of them stop working and take on full time hobbies, which according to the media appears to be sleeping with students.

 

As long as I can continue to afford it, my children will go to private school. Frankly, I don't remember but a handful of times I enjoyed school until I got to college and got to choose the things I wanted to learn. C'est la vie.

[corysold 0]

The approach used to deliver basic mathematical processes is not the problem---never was. This is yet another example of the liberal knee jerk reaction to frightening statistics. If you want a glimpse of just how pathetic our public school system is, I recommend "Waiting for Superman". Here is my recommendation:

 

1) Eliminate teacher's unions.

2) Institute a performance-based incentives program that rewards innovation and eliminates stagnation.

3) Terminate all lemons.

4) Abandon NASA.

5) Leverage funds to create a public school baseline that remedies inequalities among facilities, technologies, teachers, materials, and curriculum. It's education---not business.

6) Stop coddling children and parents. "No, it actually won't be ok if your kid fails...or if you fail your kid."

7) Position ourselves back in at least the top 3 nations for Science and Math.

8 ) Adopt NASA.

9) Use aforementioned position in science and math to master time travel.

10) Go back in time and smack the sh*t out of our present selves.

 

In my experiences around my wife's school, it is the parents who are doing way too much coddling. My wife has second graders who can't tie their own shoes because their mommy does it for them.

 

Just yesterday a parent wrote a note that "Johnny" didn't do his homework because he was too tired after his soccer practice.

 

Eariler in the year a parent requested my wife be present in the lunchroom to help the child cut up their PBJ.

 

You can't make this stuff up. There are plenty of teachers who are an issue, but it seems to me there are even more parents.

[nd1baby 0]

My mom was a primary public school teacher for 35 years. She was happy to retire and said the biggest problem was the parents. Too many parents just dropped their kids off to school like it was daycare - here now you deal with the problem for the next 7 hours. Too many parents didn't take responsibility or impose any on their kids - its never their fault. Then of course the outright ignorance of many parents like packing a Red Bull in their lunches.

[piratey 6]

The approach used to deliver basic mathematical processes is not the problem---never was. This is yet another example of the liberal knee jerk reaction to frightening statistics. If you want a glimpse of just how pathetic our public school system is, I recommend "Waiting for Superman". Here is my recommendation:

 

1) Eliminate teacher's unions.

2) Institute a performance-based incentives program that rewards innovation and eliminates stagnation.

3) Terminate all lemons.

4) Abandon NASA.

5) Leverage funds to create a public school baseline that remedies inequalities among facilities, technologies, teachers, materials, and curriculum. It's education---not business.

6) Stop coddling children and parents. "No, it actually won't be ok if your kid fails...or if you fail your kid."

7) Position ourselves back in at least the top 3 nations for Science and Math.

8 ) Adopt NASA.

9) Use aforementioned position in science and math to master time travel.

10) Go back in time and smack the sh*t out of our present selves.

 

Good luck. My sister in law is a teacher and she laments all the time about the quality of her peers. You'd put prolly 60% of the teacher workforce out of a job. You don't NEED to have any talent at teaching to become a teacher. There is no metric that decides who's good or bad, teaching is basically, "Oh you want to be a teacher!? Pass some classes at any four year university and create a resume!" Am I saying all teachers are terrible? No. I'm saying it's a job that doesn't have a real way to benchmark performance that attracts a lot of underachieving college students who want to continue getting summers off and a crazy amount of off days in a year. But to point this out is to bring up is taboo. Over 17% of the population is in the education sector...

[nd1baby 0]

Good luck. My sister in law is a teacher and she laments all the time about the quality of her peers. You'd put prolly 60% of the teacher workforce out of a job. You don't NEED to have any talent at teaching to become a teacher. There is no metric that decides who's good or bad, teaching is basically, "Oh you want to be a teacher!? Pass some classes at any four year university and create a resume!" Am I saying all teachers are terrible? No. I'm saying it's a job that doesn't have a real way to benchmark performance that attracts a lot of underachieving college students who want to continue getting summers off and a crazy amount of off days in a year. But to point this out is to bring up is taboo. Over 17% of the population is in the education sector...

 

Right you need a freaking common core to be a teacher...some basic standards and a nice test like the bar exam or CPA exam. Let the teachers lead the way with getting educated.

[corysold 0]

Right you need a freaking common core to be a teacher...some basic standards and a nice test like the bar exam or CPA exam. Let the teachers lead the way with getting educated.

 

The problem is people already complain that teachers earn too much. Imagine if they all had advanced degrees and expected to be paid like it?

 

My wife makes a nice living with two masters degrees in different education fields, but she'd make a lot more if she took that level of education to the private sector.

 

But it isn't necessarily the teachers fault. Either by lack of other candidates or apathy from the principals, very few teachers don't earn tenure who want it. My wife has worked in the same school for 12 years and I can count on 1 finger the number of teachers who were let go before reaching tenure.

[nd1baby 0]

The problem is people already complain that teachers earn too much. Imagine if they all had advanced degrees and expected to be paid like it?

 

People would pay a boatload more if the teachers were delivering results.

[corysold 0]

People would pay a boatload more if the teachers were delivering results.

 

Doubtful. My wife works in one of the best performing districts in the state and they had to fight tooth and nail to not take a large paycut in the last contract negotiation.

 

It is rare to find someone who thinks teachers are underpaid. They see summer off, spring break, Christmas break and associate them as nothing but glorified babysitters. Many might be, but more work extremely hard and do produce results among students.

[nd1baby 0]

Doubtful. My wife works in one of the best performing districts in the state.

 

Is that saying anything? ILL is an effed up mismanaged state of gargantuan proportions.

 

Anyway - what I'm getting at is link results to pay. But when the government is running the show that can't happen.

Edited May 16, 2014 by nd1baby

[echo88 74]

Doubtful. My wife works in one of the best performing districts in the state and they had to fight tooth and nail to not take a large paycut in the last contract negotiation.

 

It is rare to find someone who thinks teachers are underpaid. They see summer off, spring break, Christmas break and associate them as nothing but glorified babysitters. Many might be, but more work extremely hard and do produce results among students.

 

I don't think this is true at all. I think most people are aware of just how little they make, especially when compared to nations flourishing in education. The problem is that people associate the decline of public school performance with teachers when, in fact, teachers are powerless to do anything to improve it.

[DTCBND03 0]

1. Kids are coddled. Here's the best way to sum it up:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A_Muui5CIAAUBgM.jpg:large

 

2. Teachers are underpaid in one sense...and most people think they're overpaid. But that's supply and demand at work cause anyone can be a teacher. Parents treat it like daycare...but don't pay babysitter rates. Think of what a teacher makes to not only teach but watch 30 kids for hours and hours. Yet you pay your babysitter more. Then they go home and grade homework. Teachers work hard. Yes they get summers off and lots of vacation time but if you break down their salary a lot of McD's workers will be making more hourly and then by student its not that much.

 

3. I'll never understand why people go to college to major in education. You should go to college to major in math, science, etc. and then just decide to teach if you want to. An Education degree is like a management degree...worthless. And save the Masters, PHD, etc. for college level teaching. I hear of ENDLESS teachers going back to get their masters...just to make more money...when it clearly does not take a masters degree to teach grade school and high school topics. Stop rewarding the overqualified teachers and that will reign in salaries.