Why is Marijuana still illegal in most of America?

[Manutd fan 0]

ND3, no offense taken. I am a very conservative/libertarian in terms of political affiliation, so I understand your points of govt. And, back at you at no offense .

 

Actually, no....the temptation I speak of is not something that anyone would have. The temptation, is one which then consumes you to the point where you will do anything to get it, and use it. The average joe doesn't have that same temptation or that same need. The all consuming nature of the addiction will make you do things you nkow are wrong and will readily admit once you have taken, done, or what ever.

 

They don't try weed and then think that they should step up and try heroin......Actually, addicts do. because once the person with the addictive nature begins to continue on that road, getting off is nearly impossible and so will continue to go deeper into that world of addiction. There are many people who can drink ungodly and inhuman amounts, and never have the addiction. There are others who can take one and it's all down hill from there. I truly believe Pot is a gateway drug, but there are addicts who will jump into heroin, pills, etc. Does every addict start that way....obviously not. So you are correct in that it is the easiest to get a hold of, but that doesn't mean that addicts will start there.

 

What about video games? People become addicted to video games and they can cause all kinds of trouble: Late nights, no sleep, struggling work/school performance, withering relationships. Should they be illegal?

 

Look, it's up to the user to be responsible with their use. It's not up to the government to tell people what they can and can't when it doesn't have an effect on others. Yes, people can be addicted to video games, exercise, etc. etc. But to try to equate video games with illegal drugs is really a stretch and a little nieve, but so be it. no offense. But here's the thing, when you say it doesn't have an affect on someone else, that's addict thinking...it does affect others. I thought I was the only one who knew about my addiction, but my family knew through my behaviors, attitudes, moods, etc. But the person with the addiction doesn't see how their behavior continues to escalate, and then begins to affect their family or community at large. I would disagree with you that the govt can't tell people what they can and cannot do when it doesn't have an effect on others, because they are in authority over us anyway, so they have that ability. Furthermore, they tell us we can do things that are harmful to us as communities at large (in my opinion.....I would say abortion is one that readily comes to mind). Essentially though, I agree with your premise about the govt, as I believe we are getting more and more of our rights taken away and the nanny state is here. However, we should have enough of a conscience to say that with our freedoms and rights, we should also have the responsibility and sense to say that there are some things, for the seemingly obvious reasons that it is good for the common good (not driving 70 mph through a school zone or deaf child area). I know that can lead to a slippery slope (NY and sodas), but just because it is becoming vogue to smoke weed doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and say nothing we can do, just have to legalize and regulate it. How does our govt do with enforcing regulations now???? And just because someone does well even though the smoked pot doesn't make it right. That to me is also faulty logic. So just don't get caught, and that will be okay?

 

And although you may not have been able to get alcohol, others can very easily get it. It's just it was more prevelent for you to get pot. Whereas alcohol will be a lot more prevelent to others. I would really encourage anyone who does want pot legalized to go talk with a former junkie and/or person who is an addiction specialist. Talk with the people who are dealing with it face to face on a regular basis.

 

Thanks for the conversation.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

Coming from an addict, although not necessarily this drug, I am definitely against legalization of pot. Spend time with any addict of anything, or a addiction counselor, and they will tell you pot is a huge problem. It would also be a issue for addicts if another "temptation" for addicts became legal, as any little thing can trigger a relapse, and so that is why we who are addicts believe it is a second by second stuggle, and a day to day fight. However, the vast majority of people I knew who were and are drug addicts, started with pot.

 

I can say that once my addiction was being dealt with, it began to manifest itself in other areas of my life, and if I wasn't careful I would be easily led to addictions in other areas. I am in a daily fight for my life, and I know if I mess up again, I will lose all that means most to me, other than my relationship with God.

 

I guess I am against the use/abuse of anything that causes someone to take something to disconnect from reality and not be able to address issues that are going on in their lives. Alcohol, OTC's, etc etc. Eating addictions are the exception. Have to eat to live. But generally, most addicts turn to their addiction because of the euphoria of the escape. I don't understand peoples rational for legalizing something that......I don't know. I just don't get it. I guess I can't formulate the words I want right now.

 

I don't understand the idea of legalizing something else when we have a hard enough time enforcing responsible use of alcohol. In regards to the state of Colorado and Wash. We will never get true results as many will go to those states, get their stash and then go over state lines. You won't know the "true" results of what will happen with any kind of study

 

Thanks for letting me share.

 

nanny state!!!! all drugs should be legal..

[nd1baby 0]

Perhaps we discuss over a nice cold glass of ... Pot Beer!

 

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/11/14/colorado-homebrewers-get-high-off-pot-beer/?intcmp=features

[Green Goblin 114]

Great post Man Fan.

 

Pot legalization is a terrible idea. Pot is another way to disconnect from the realities of the real world. Pot is correlated to increase increase crime. Pot reduces ambition and leadership.

 

I think you can say the same about alcohol. In fact, I'd stake my life on the fact that alcohol crime-inducing stats would be far worse than marijuana's.

 

I'd say you are disconnected from reality already. Are you smoking pot? Did you not hear what I said? Pot is readily available everywhere. All the money from it goes to very bad and dangerous men. That's the facts. Genie's out of the bottle. Time to minimize the damage rather than just pretend its not there....

[Irish_Convert 1]

Legalize it. Since we've reached the point that more people die from abuse of prescription painkillers than coke or heroin, I'd say it's time to stop pulling our hair out over cannabis.

 

I've never seen one study that has shown marijuana to be physically addictive and when you put that up against all the legal drugs, readily available through your physician(Or dealer), that have long been declared to be addictive, it's folly to keep it illegal.

 

Not one death has ever been directly contributed to marijuana use and yet it's more stigmatized than alcohol. Addiction to some legal drugs is so well documented, there's a black market for them and yet nobody gasps in horror when they hear about someone taking vicadin or oxycontin.

 

Plus, legalizing it would take a big hunk out of the drug cartels' trade since it's the most commonly consumed of the illegal substances that they peddle. It wouldn't end this farcical drug war we've been involved in for over forty years but it sure wouldn't hurt.

[Rockets Revenge 0]

Legalize it. Since we've reached the point that more people die from abuse of prescription painkillers than coke or heroin, I'd say it's time to stop pulling our hair out over cannabis.

 

I've never seen one study that has shown marijuana to be physically addictive and when you put that up against all the legal drugs, readily available through your physician(Or dealer), that have long been declared to be addictive, it's folly to keep it illegal.

 

Not one death has ever been directly contributed to marijuana use and yet it's more stigmatized than alcohol. Addiction to some legal drugs is so well documented, there's a black market for them and yet nobody gasps in horror when they hear about someone taking vicadin or oxycontin.

 

Plus, legalizing it would take a big hunk out of the drug cartels' trade since it's the most commonly consumed of the illegal substances that they peddle. It wouldn't end this farcical drug war we've been involved in for over forty years but it sure wouldn't hurt.

 

So, if there is a black market for legal prescrition drugs what makes you think the black market for pot is just going to disappear by making it legal. You think these "businessmen" are just going to watch all their profits go away?

[corysold 0]

As someone who has never smoked marijuana, what is the point? What is the feeling you get? How long does it last? Does it differ from person to person?

[Green Goblin 114]

So' date=' if there is a black market for legal prescrition drugs what makes you think the black market for pot is just going to disappear by making it legal. You think these "businessmen" are just going to watch all their profits go away?[/quote']

How lucrative is the black market for tobacco or beer? Yeah, nuff said, get out of the way of progress.

[Irish_Convert 1]

So' date=' if there is a black market for legal prescrition drugs what makes you think the black market for pot is just going to disappear by making it legal. You think these "businessmen" are just going to watch all their profits go away?[/quote']

 

I didn't say it would disappear but it would sure make it less lucrative. The average smoker isn't going to track down a dealer in some sketchy neighborhood if he can purchase it legitimately. Some of those "businessmen" won't have a choice.

 

Regarding prescription drug issues, I've personally witnessed people from my wife's side of the family who do anything to obtain them even though they have prescriptions from their doctors. The physical and psychological addiction is stronger than it is with marijuana so when they can't obtain their fix from their doctor or another doctor or another doctor, they find other ways to get it. You really can't compare the two markets because potentially addictive prescription drugs are more addictive and dangerous than marijuana.

[SpeedsterX 652]

As someone who has never smoked marijuana, what is the point? What is the feeling you get? How long does it last? Does it differ from person to person?

 

Well, it's been a long time but you generally get a mellow buzz. Really relaxed. You also think everything is the funniest thing you ever heard. The relaxation feeling lasts probably around 2-3 hours. You eventually get really thirsty ("cotton mouth") and really hungry! Then you eventually get really tired and just want to sleep. The reason I never took it past my high school days is because I found that even the next day or 2 you really aren't as sharp mentally as you normally would be.

 

That's my experience and I'm sure others have had different ones. It is in my opinion a healthier and safer way to get a buzz than alcohol if you must.

Edited November 16, 2012 by SpeedsterX

[NDsection23 0]

Well, it's been a long time but you generally get a mellow buzz. Really relaxed. You also think everything is the funniest thing you ever heard. The relaxation feeling lasts probably around 2-3 hours. You eventually get really thirsty ("cotton mouth") and really hungry! Then you eventually get really tired and just want to sleep. The reason I never took it past my high school days is because I found that even the next day or 2 you really aren't as sharp mentally as you normally would be.

 

That's my experience and I'm sure others have had different ones. It is in my opinion a healthier and safer way to get a buzz than alcohol if you must.

 

You forgot one important thing - music sounds amazing.

 

Some people say they feel residual effects the next day, some don't. But it sure beats the hell out of an alcohol hangover!

[mudskipper 0]

Music sounds better and food taste better and eye pressure issues are sometimes improved, but a malaise sets in and initiative suffers. If you see a slower moving car on the road and a young person is driving, well you get the idea.

[Rockets Revenge 0]

How lucrative is the black market for tobacco or beer? Yeah, nuff said, get out of the way of progress.

 

They have been legal for many, many years so there isn't an already existing black market. Actually, there is a prominant black market for "shine" in the south.

 

I never said I was against legalization of the ganga I just see some potential issues with legalizing it. And if getting high legally is your idea of progress I feel sorry for you...

[Rockets Revenge 0]

I didn't say it would disappear but it would sure make it less lucrative. The average smoker isn't going to track down a dealer in some sketchy neighborhood if he can purchase it legitimately. Some of those "businessmen" won't have a choice.

 

 

The average user doesn't have to track down a dealer in a sketchy neighborhood now (just go to ANY junior high school or high school) so why would they have to if it was legal? Moonshine still has a lucrative black market and alcohol is legal...

[NDsection23 0]

They have been legal for many' date=' many years so there isn't an already existing black market. Actually, there is a prominant black market for "shine" in the south.[/quote']

 

There sure was a black market for alcohol during prohibition that was associated with violent crime.

 

I don't hear much about organized crime and moonshine. We aren't spending trillions of dollars on a war on moonshine, and Mexican cartels aren't killing tens of thousands annually trying to control the moonshine trade.

[ND3 0]

Actually, no....the temptation I speak of is not something that anyone would have. The temptation, is one which then consumes you to the point where you will do anything to get it, and use it. The average joe doesn't have that same temptation or that same need. The all consuming nature of the addiction will make you do things you nkow are wrong and will readily admit once you have taken, done, or what ever.

 

My point was that the temptation will be there no matter if it's legal or illegal. The fact that it's illegal just means you have to call your dealer instead of going to the dispensery.

 

They don't try weed and then think that they should step up and try heroin......Actually, addicts do. because once the person with the addictive nature begins to continue on that road, getting off is nearly impossible and so will continue to go deeper into that world of addiction. There are many people who can drink ungodly and inhuman amounts, and never have the addiction. There are others who can take one and it's all down hill from there. I truly believe Pot is a gateway drug, but there are addicts who will jump into heroin, pills, etc. Does every addict start that way....obviously not. So you are correct in that it is the easiest to get a hold of, but that doesn't mean that addicts will start there.

 

Yes, people with addictive personalities or a curiosity to experiment may start with weed and move up to harder drugs. However, I think this is the classic "correlation does not imply causation" argument. People who are interested in trying heroin, coke, meth, etc. will also smoke weed, and will usually start with weed because it's softer and easier to find. They would do harder drugs anyways, and I feel that it's independent of their decision to try pot. Lots and lots of people just want to try weed, and stay with that. The amount of people that have tried marijuana at some point is much, much higher than any other illegal drug. That's to say: If it were a gateway drug, wouldn't those numbers be closer?

 

What about video games? People become addicted to video games and they can cause all kinds of trouble: Late nights, no sleep, struggling work/school performance, withering relationships. Should they be illegal?

 

Look, it's up to the user to be responsible with their use. It's not up to the government to tell people what they can and can't when it doesn't have an effect on others. Yes, people can be addicted to video games, exercise, etc. etc. But to try to equate video games with illegal drugs is really a stretch and a little nieve, but so be it. no offense. But here's the thing, when you say it doesn't have an affect on someone else, that's addict thinking...it does affect others. I thought I was the only one who knew about my addiction, but my family knew through my behaviors, attitudes, moods, etc. But the person with the addiction doesn't see how their behavior continues to escalate, and then begins to affect their family or community at large.

 

I realize that it was a bit of an asinine argument- It was more to make a point than anything. The point is that literally anything can be addictive to certain people. Just because some people have personalities/brain makeups that cause them to be dependent on substances does not mean that said substances should be illegal for everyone. As has been said here before, there are no addictive chemicals in marijuana. The only way it is "addictive" is that it can be habit-forming, which is no different than munching on Oreos and drinking soda for a snack, playing video games until 2am, or hooking up with a new woman every night.

 

I would disagree with you that the govt can't tell people what they can and cannot do when it doesn't have an effect on others, because they are in authority over us anyway, so they have that ability. Furthermore, they tell us we can do things that are harmful to us as communities at large (in my opinion.....I would say abortion is one that readily comes to mind). Essentially though, I agree with your premise about the govt, as I believe we are getting more and more of our rights taken away and the nanny state is here. However, we should have enough of a conscience to say that with our freedoms and rights, we should also have the responsibility and sense to say that there are some things, for the seemingly obvious reasons that it is good for the common good (not driving 70 mph through a school zone or deaf child area). I know that can lead to a slippery slope (NY and sodas), but just because it is becoming vogue to smoke weed doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and say nothing we can do, just have to legalize and regulate it. How does our govt do with enforcing regulations now???? And just because someone does well even though the smoked pot doesn't make it right. That to me is also faulty logic. So just don't get caught, and that will be okay?

 

You're right- it's in the very definition of the word "government" that they do have legitimite control over their constituents. They can do whatever they want, but in the United States, we have the Constitution which limits the powers of big brother. The Constitution explicitly states that the federal government shall not make any laws that are not kosher with the listed powers that the government has. Does marijuana use infringe upon the rights of others? Absolutely not, unless they get behind the wheel or go to work high or something. The examples you list are clearly dangerous to others. At most, I'll say that marijuana use is a gray area, and I would argue that in cases like that, the government should err on the side of less control.

 

And although you may not have been able to get alcohol, others can very easily get it. It's just it was more prevelent for you to get pot. Whereas alcohol will be a lot more prevelent to others. I would really encourage anyone who does want pot legalized to go talk with a former junkie and/or person who is an addiction specialist. Talk with the people who are dealing with it face to face on a regular basis.

 

Will legalization change anything in this respect? Will it add to the temptation? I know that in Colorado, it will remain illegal to use or be intoxicated in public still. I just don't understand how the legalization of marijuana changes anything for addicts. It won't be any more or less available. Weed has and always will be just a phone call away. The temptation is there and won't change. It will just be more regulated. That being said (and this may be insensitive, but I'm an insensitive guy), should the fact that a small minority of people can't handle a substance like marijuana ruin it for everyone? Should that be a factor in its continued illegality? I say no.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ND3

[lucid 0]

Marijuana was made illegal in the '30's because of the collusion of three specific industries - cotton, paper and alcohol. They didn't want the competition in the cloth, pulp and leisure industries.

 

Today there are a number of industrial interests conspiring to keep it illegal, despite the fact that the younger generations pretty much unanimously support legalization.

 

1. The pharmaceutical industry. It is already well documented in peer reviewed research that marijuana could immediately replace a number of cash cow drugs - for one, SSRI's and various anti-anxiety meds. It can also replace numerous medications given to chemo patients [for nausea, etc.]... Further, as reported over the summer in multiple newspapers, it's been discovered that canniboids inhibit metastasis in cancer cells. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html

 

2. The prison industrial complex. As prisons have largely become private industry, they in no way want to see a reduction in federal and state dollars. Given that 50% of our prison population is incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses [the vast majority of them marijuana possession, growing or dealing], legalization would pose a serious threat to the growth of the industry.

 

3. Alcohol [still]. They have a legal monopoly in the leisure industry & don't want marijuana use to become as culturally acceptable as having a beer as that would impact their bottom line.

 

What happened in WA and CO is a wonderful thing & I think as happened with alcohol re-legalization, within 10 years marijuana will finally be legal nationally.

 

In response to some other points in this thread. I am a marijuana smoker. I smoke 3-4 evenings a week. For one, as I suffer from anxiety disorder, I find it a much better alternative to the pharmaceutical meds [like clonopin], which not only rot your liver and are highly physically addictive, but also leave me hazy & emotionally distant. I'm also a musician, and we know the effects of marijuana with respect to enhancing concentration with respect to music. I'm not the type of person that enjoys being massively stoned - just a couple hits from a vaporizor to get to work on music in the evenings & then maybe another hit or two later to relax and aid in sleep. There are millions of people in this country who use marijuana functionally every day - and they actually are able to function better as it helps them overcome debilitating medical conditions. And there are millions more who enjoy it recreationally. Are there people with pot problems? Of course - just like there are coffee addicts, sugar addicts, smokers and alcoholics. However, no death has ever been singularly found to be caused by marijuana use & as with any other addiction, if people recognize that it is impacting their life in a negative manner, they either need to deal with it, or get help.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Marijuana was made illegal in the '30's because of the collusion of three specific industries - cotton, paper and alcohol. They didn't want the competition in the cloth, pulp and leisure industries.

 

Today there are a number of industrial interests conspiring to keep it illegal, despite the fact that the younger generations pretty much unanimously support legalization.

 

1. The pharmaceutical industry. It is already well documented in peer reviewed research that marijuana could immediately replace a number of cash cow drugs - for one, SSRI's and various anti-anxiety meds. It can also replace numerous medications given to chemo patients [for nausea, etc.]... Further, as reported over the summer in multiple newspapers, it's been discovered that canniboids inhibit metastasis in cancer cells. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html

 

2. The prison industrial complex. As prisons have largely become private industry, they in no way want to see a reduction in federal and state dollars. Given that 50% of our prison population is incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses [the vast majority of them marijuana possession, growing or dealing], legalization would pose a serious threat to the growth of the industry.

 

3. Alcohol [still]. They have a legal monopoly in the leisure industry & don't want marijuana use to become as culturally acceptable as having a beer as that would impact their bottom line.

 

What happened in WA and CO is a wonderful thing & I think as happened with alcohol re-legalization, within 10 years marijuana will finally be legal nationally.

 

In response to some other points in this thread. I am a marijuana smoker. I smoke 3-4 evenings a week. For one, as I suffer from anxiety disorder, I find it a much better alternative to the pharmaceutical meds [like clonopin], which not only rot your liver and are highly physically addictive, but also leave me hazy & emotionally distant. I'm also a musician, and we know the effects of marijuana with respect to enhancing concentration with respect to music. I'm not the type of person that enjoys being massively stoned - just a couple hits from a vaporizor to get to work on music in the evenings & then maybe another hit or two later to relax and aid in sleep. There are millions of people in this country who use marijuana functionally every day - and they actually are able to function better as it helps them overcome debilitating medical conditions. And there are millions more who enjoy it recreationally. Are there people with pot problems? Of course - just like there are coffee addicts, sugar addicts, smokers and alcoholics. However, no death has ever been singularly found to be caused by marijuana use & as with any other addiction, if people recognize that it is impacting their life in a negative manner, they either need to deal with it, or get help.

 

#2 Is completely bogus and has been for a long time. The impression that someone who is in possession a joint or small quantity of weed is arrested, convicted, and thrown into PRISON for any length of time is completely outrageous. In the past 4 or more years the feds are barely touching the stuff. In reality 99% of offenders are given fines for MJ possession and if they serve any time in jail its their choice in place of paying their fines.

[lucid 0]

This is the new Jim Crow in the south - African Americans arrested for possession & jailed for felonies. It has the added bonus of keeping them from voting in elections.

[lucid 0]

I see the harassment of minority communities every day with the ridiculous stop & frisk policy which leads to countless arrests for possession - disproportionately in minority communities. Now in NYC possession is a misdemeanor, but in many states, it is not.