Why is Marijuana still illegal in most of America?

[Green Goblin 114]

First of all, congrats to Colorado and Washington for finally doing the right thing on this one.

 

Secondly, let me state, I tried marijuana once in college. Didn't do anything for me and have never felt compelled to try it again. I don't smoke tobacco either. I see it as a total waste of money if nothing else.

 

That said, America needs to pull its head out of its a$$ on this one. When you sit down and look at the facts of the situation, I can't even fathom the logic used to keep it illegal.

 

1) Saying its a gateway drug is a total cop-out. Every person I've ever heard of that do "hardcore" drugs started with smoking tobacco and/or drinking alcohol. So why aren't those gateway drugs? Sorry, that's just total BS to me.

 

2) The stuff is readily available at ANY high school in America. Its everywhere already. The war is over on this one. What's worse is all the money is going to VERY bad men that mean to do America harm. The Mexican drug lords thank American morale victories for their giant mansions and gold plated guns.

 

3) I hear about drunk drivers killing someone nearly every single day. I hear about drunk fathers coming home and abusing their wives and children all the time. I read about smokers getting cancer all the time. Does it suck? Yes. Would society be better off without these drugs? Yes. Is that going to happen? Nope. I don't hear too much about high drivers killing anyone or high fathers coming home and beating their wives and kids.

 

Sorry but at some point you have to pull your head out of the sand, stop with the wishful thinking and address the reality of the situation. I honestly can't even believe people against its legalization think they have a leg to stand on besides "its bad"

[DTCBND03 0]

I think in time it will be legal, regulated and taxed. It will gradually spread from most western states on a state legal level across the US. I see it as a somewhat harmless drug as well. The people that are stupid enough to move on to more hardcore drugs deserve the consequences.

 

In order to win the drug war the only option is to curb the demand because they are the most suceptible to common sense and logic. On the supply side you're dealing with poor/greedy/gangsters/criminals that can't turn down the money/power. The supply will always be there. It's been proven time and time again with any lucrative black market. Once the king falls the others fight for the top spot because the demand needs to be filled and the immediate rewards of money/power are huge. Just watch The Wire and you'll see what i mean (best TV show of all time btw).

 

So my solution is a 3 strike death penalty system. You get arrested, test positive and are convicted for hardcore drugs (coke, meth, heroin, scrip drugs) on 3 separate occasions and you are given the death penalty. After strikes one and two have mandatory treatment programs. By strike 3 I'm ready to throw in the towel on you...esp after what you do is the main reason gangs (see any rough neighborhood in Chicago), warfare (see Mexico cartels killing innocent civilians), crime/stealing/luting, are funded. Not to mention the hardships you cause on friends and family (watch any ep of intervention).

[Drew2975 0]

First of all, congrats to Colorado and Washington for finally doing the right thing on this one.

I thought you might continue this discussion after chat last night.

 

Secondly, let me state, I tried marijuana once in college. Didn't do anything for me and have never felt compelled to try it again. I don't smoke tobacco either. I see it as a total waste of money if nothing else.

Did you inhale?

On a serious note your lack of experience,in my opinion, invalidates your argument.I started using marijuana regularly when I was 11 years old. You also state you do not smoke tobacco. Do you have any first hand experience with addiction? How about second hand experience with addiction? Popular belief states that marijuana is not addictive. This simply is not true. It is not physically addictive, but can be,and often is, mentally addictive. For those experienced, mental addiction is far worse then physical addiction. A heroin addicts' physical withdrawal symptoms generally last around 7 days but can last months with post acute withdrawal syndrome. That being said a heroin addict can relapse decades later because of the mental addiction.

 

That said, America needs to pull its head out of its a$$ on this one. When you sit down and look at the facts of the situation, I can't even fathom the logic used to keep it illegal.

I have reread, and reread your post, and I find your lack of supported facts to be amusing. I have a feeling trying to explain any of this to you is the equivalent of me running into a brick wall,painful and pointless.Or,at best a waste of my time.

1) Saying its a gateway drug is a total cop-out. Every person I've ever heard of that do "hardcore" drugs started with smoking tobacco and/or drinking alcohol. So why aren't those gateway drugs? Sorry, that's just total BS to me.

Allow me to introduce you to...myself. As I Already stated I began using marijuana at age 11. I followed this up with hashish,LSD,PCP, and cocaine before I started smoking tobacco at age 17.

2) The stuff is readily available at ANY high school in America. Its everywhere already. The war is over on this one. What's worse is all the money is going to VERY bad men that mean to do America harm. The Mexican drug lords thank American morale victories for their giant mansions and gold plated guns.

I will do you one better. I would go so far to say marijuana is readily available at ANY junior high school in America. To me that may be one of the most discouraging things about this whole argument. I could share the negative effects I experience through first hand knowledge, but I feel that won't have the impact it should. Instead let me share with you a recent study on the very subject or marijuana use with the developing brain.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120827152039.htm

 

As for your comment about American moral victories,maybe you have a starting point. I will leave you with this quote from Edmund Burke.

 

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

 

3) I hear about drunk drivers killing someone nearly every single day. I hear about drunk fathers coming home and abusing their wives and children all the time. I read about smokers getting cancer all the time. Does it suck? Yes. Would society be better off without these drugs? Yes. Is that going to happen? Nope. I don't hear too much about high drivers killing anyone or high fathers coming home and beating their wives and kids.

I will give you one here. Numerous studies have shown that cannabis use while driving is not nearly as bad as alcohol use. US drivers with blood alcohol levels of 0.05% – a level well below the legal limit for intoxication – were three times as likely to have engaged in unsafe driving activities prior to a fatal crash as compared to individuals who tested positive for marijuana.

That said your comment about fathers who are high not beating their children is obviously not based on experience or facts. You again fail to realize the impact of addiction. Understandable since it would seem your experience with addiction is at best limited.

 

Sorry but at some point you have to pull your head out of the sand, stop with the wishful thinking and address the reality of the situation. I honestly can't even believe people against its legalization think they have a leg to stand on besides "its bad"

 

I have two legs and am standing on concrete well above sea level thank you. There are proven mental and physical health risks with marijuana use. Will it be legal everywhere someday? Most likely. That doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it. I find your flippant attitude,and lack of experience, about it to be more compelling that your head is buried in the sand.

[nd1baby 0]

Well, let's see how it goes in Colo and Wash. If it goes well, others may follow suit.

[buirish 0]

The one thing I'm not sure about is if there is a way to measure the amount of marijuana in your system? The breathalizer measures the amount of alcohol in your system. Something like this would be a necessity for how high one might be behind the wheel!?!? just a thought

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Well its still got to get by the Feds on this one, so it isn't over yet. I'd be surprised if it isn't de-criminalized everywhere in my lifetime. Lots of arguments for and against, but we really need to sort out the BS. For instance the "millions" of citizens who are in prison due to possession charges is a completely bogus and ignorant statement. In 14 years as a LEO, I have never seen someone go to prison on a simple possession charge, regardless if it's their first or fiftieth such charge.

 

Regarding the comparisons between MJ and violent behavior, I've seen people who were stoned commit violent acts on others. I've arrested people who were stoned out of their minds and had NO business driving a motor vehicle as well.

 

If the Feds allow Wash and Colo to keep their laws, we'll see how things work out. My interest is to see if accident rates and the like go up a lot due to irresponsible behavior by users. IF it does I would expect campaigns for taking cabs and DD's to start coming out of the woodwork immediately, informing folks that driving under the influence of ANY drug or alcohol is extremely dangerous and illegal.

Edited November 11, 2012 by jessemoore97

[Drew2975 0]

buirish there are studies showing that someone with a BAC of .05 is 3 times more likely to be impaired than someone under the effects of marijuana.

 

On a side note, sorry to mods for my post waiting to be approved. I forgot about the 10 post requirement for quotes.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

The one thing I'm not sure about is if there is a way to measure the amount of marijuana in your system? The breathalizer measures the amount of alcohol in your system. Something like this would be a necessity for how high one might be behind the wheel!?!? just a thought

 

Measuring the amount isn't the problem, we've been able to do that for some time now. And I know many states if not all have a number for the THC content to consider it over the limit. I know the argument by pro MJ folks is that THC can stay in the system for long periods of time, therefore is the actual measurement over the limit for that moment the driver was caught or from the 12 times he smoked up in the previous week.

 

This is why field sobriety tests are so important, and work equally well for testing any and all impaired drivers IMO. The laws that currently apply to OWI's for alcohol work the same for narcotics here.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

buirish there are studies showing that someone with a BAC of .05 is 3 times more likely to be impaired than someone under the effects of marijuana.

 

On a side note, sorry to mods for my post waiting to be approved. I forgot about the 10 post requirement for quotes.

 

It depends entirely on the individual. I've encountered drunk drivers who were in the low to mid .3's who drove perfectly fine and the only reason they were stopped was because of a equipment violation like a broken head or tail light. Much of it has to do with an individual's tolerances etc.

[Drew2975 0]

jessemoore97 I agree that it does vary based on the individual and their tolerance but at the same time (I will try to find the link) the study I have seen shows a decent sample size. Which leads me to believe that marijuana does have less of impairment on driving than alcohol in general.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Drew2975

[jessemoore97 1,295]

jessemoore97 I agree that it does vary based on the individual and their tolerance but at the same time (I will try to find the link) the study I have seen shows a decent sample size. Which leads me to believe that marijuana does have less of impairment on driving than alcohol in general.

 

The biggest problem I see is how are people going to know if they are or aren't impaired to drive. THC potency in MJ is getting higher due to ever increasing cross-pollenization and these new breeds of more potent MJ are going to the market and becoming more widespread among users.

 

I'm curious how much MJ was used compared to the alcohol. For instance to get a .05 BAC most average folks would only need to have 2-3 beers. Comparably how much THC did the testers ingest? How does one measure the effects of X amount of alcohol to Y amount of THC, which are very different types of measurements. I would be interested in seeing the study though, to understand how they tried to account for the variables.

[ObieKnobbe 47]

The biggest problem I see is how are people going to know if they are or aren't impaired to drive. THC potency in MJ is getting higher due to ever increasing cross-pollenization and these new breeds of more potent MJ are going to the market and becoming more widespread among users.

 

I'm curious how much MJ was used compared to the alcohol. For instance to get a .05 BAC most average folks would only need to have 2-3 beers. Comparably how much THC did the testers ingest? How does one measure the effects of X amount of alcohol to Y amount of THC, which are very different types of measurements. I would be interested in seeing the study though, to understand how they tried to account for the variables.

 

Just curious, when you became a cop and how long?

[chirodomer 47]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Just like one night stands are a gateway drug to that hell that most guys call "________"!

[jessemoore97 1,295]

Just curious, when you became a cop and how long?

 

Started back in '98, so going on 15 years now.

[ND3 0]

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Just like one night stands are a gateway drug to that hell that most guys call "________"!

 

Correlation does not imply causation.

[MantyIrish 0]

I don't know the answer to your question. Seems it should be legal.

 

It took a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to ban alcohol in this country.....the burden for banning pot is considerably less. Doesn't seem right to me.

[Manutd fan 0]

Coming from an addict, although not necessarily this drug, I am definitely against legalization of pot. Spend time with any addict of anything, or a addiction counselor, and they will tell you pot is a huge problem. It would also be a issue for addicts if another "temptation" for addicts became legal, as any little thing can trigger a relapse, and so that is why we who are addicts believe it is a second by second stuggle, and a day to day fight. However, the vast majority of people I knew who were and are drug addicts, started with pot.

 

I can say that once my addiction was being dealt with, it began to manifest itself in other areas of my life, and if I wasn't careful I would be easily led to addictions in other areas. I am in a daily fight for my life, and I know if I mess up again, I will lose all that means most to me, other than my relationship with God.

 

I guess I am against the use/abuse of anything that causes someone to take something to disconnect from reality and not be able to address issues that are going on in their lives. Alcohol, OTC's, etc etc. Eating addictions are the exception. Have to eat to live. But generally, most addicts turn to their addiction because of the euphoria of the escape. I don't understand peoples rational for legalizing something that......I don't know. I just don't get it. I guess I can't formulate the words I want right now.

 

I don't understand the idea of legalizing something else when we have a hard enough time enforcing responsible use of alcohol. In regards to the state of Colorado and Wash. We will never get true results as many will go to those states, get their stash and then go over state lines. You won't know the "true" results of what will happen with any kind of study

 

Thanks for letting me share.

[TheRizz 5]

Great post Man Fan.

 

Pot legalization is a terrible idea. Pot is another way to disconnect from the realities of the real world. Pot is correlated to increase increase crime. Pot reduces ambition and leadership.

[ND3 0]

Coming from an addict, although not necessarily this drug, I am definitely against legalization of pot. Spend time with any addict of anything, or a addiction counselor, and they will tell you pot is a huge problem. It would also be a issue for addicts if another "temptation" for addicts became legal, as any little thing can trigger a relapse, and so that is why we who are addicts believe it is a second by second stuggle, and a day to day fight. However, the vast majority of people I knew who were and are drug addicts, started with pot.

 

That temptation that you speak of exists whether weed is legal or not. It's just as easy to call your dealer as it is to drive to the dispensery. Of course everyone starts with pot. It's the easiest to obtain. If it was difficult to obtain, everyone would start with something else. People that are interested in experimenting with drugs start with marijuana because it's easy to. They don't try weed and then think that they should step up and try heroin.

 

I can say that once my addiction was being dealt with, it began to manifest itself in other areas of my life, and if I wasn't careful I would be easily led to addictions in other areas. I am in a daily fight for my life, and I know if I mess up again, I will lose all that means most to me, other than my relationship with God.

 

I guess I am against the use/abuse of anything that causes someone to take something to disconnect from reality and not be able to address issues that are going on in their lives. Alcohol, OTC's, etc etc. Eating addictions are the exception. Have to eat to live. But generally, most addicts turn to their addiction because of the euphoria of the escape. I don't understand peoples rational for legalizing something that......I don't know. I just don't get it. I guess I can't formulate the words I want right now.

 

What about video games? People become addicted to video games and they can cause all kinds of trouble: Late nights, no sleep, struggling work/school performance, withering relationships. Should they be illegal?

 

Look, it's up to the user to be responsible with their use. It's not up to the government to tell people what they can and can't when it doesn't have an effect on others. If I go smoke a bowl in my room, eat some funions, and listen to music, I can go to jail and lose my job/apartment.

 

Obviously, when people start driving under the influence, it's not OK, and that should remain illegal, but there is really no other aspect of marijuana use that infringes upon the rights of others.

 

I don't understand the idea of legalizing something else when we have a hard enough time enforcing responsible use of alcohol. In regards to the state of Colorado and Wash. We will never get true results as many will go to those states, get their stash and then go over state lines. You won't know the "true" results of what will happen with any kind of study

 

Thanks for letting me share.

 

The illegality of marijuana isn't stopping people from using it. A huge majority of kids will tell you that marijuana is easier to obtain than even alcohol. From personal experience, I could have gotten pot in 8th grade, but I couldn't really get alcohol until I got a job at 16. People who smoke pot are going to keep smoking pot, legal or not. People who abstain will, for the most part, continue to abstain. Regulation of marijuana really is the best option. You can't OD on marijuana, but you can OD when it's laced with something else. It happens when it's illegal, not when it's legal.

 

The Drug War (MY tax dollars) is a blatant waste of government money. It almost directly funds drug cartels. It is responsible for many murders on the US-Mexico border. It has done nothing to stop drug use. In fact, I would argue that it encourages it. Prohibition doesn't work. Didn't we learn that lesson once already?

 

Good luck with everything, my man. If I came off as offensive here, my apologies. I just fundamentally disagree with your stance on this issue.

[ND3 0]

Great post Man Fan.

 

Pot legalization is a terrible idea. Pot is another way to disconnect from the realities of the real world. Pot is correlated to increase increase crime. Pot reduces ambition and leadership.

 

Source? George Washington smoked pot. I think he was a good leader. I think he had high ambitions.

 

Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Barack Obama, Jon Stewart, Morgan Freeman, Al Gore, Bob Marley, Bob Dylan, Carl Sagan, Dr. Francis Crick, Ernest Hemingway, Hunter S. Thompson, Thomas Jefferson.

 

All these people have smoked pot regularly at some point in their lives. They did pretty well.

 

lol at your claim that it increases crime. The illegality of marijuana leads to increased crime (makes users criminals, creates dealers, encourages cartels, makes billionares out of drug lords, is responsible for hundreds of deaths of transportation into the high-market United States), but marijuana use increases crime? Absolutely not.