By the numbers: Hartman ≤ Pyne

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

I turn into Faith the evaluator this time of year

 

Drew Pyne had a slightly better completion percentage than Sam Hartman

Pyne had less interceptions and less touchdowns but they were all close

@Mike if you know how to make  one of those math signs with less than with a line under it appear in the title it would make the title cleaner.

 

We wanted a Heisman and ended up replacing Drew Pyne with well Drew Pyne

Estime and the defense ended up making up for Michael Mayer and producing a slightly better season.

 

We need to have a realistic conversation about what to expect from 1  year transfers

@tneun89 Who was the best this year. Bo Nix maybe? Would you help me compare his numbers to Sams.

 

Guys this not a bash Sam thread. I want to figure out what numbers we need to take another transfer.

 

[mcgov12 1,235]

Those are some interesting comparisons Faith, good stuff. I think we all expected a Heisman caliber qb and he didn’t live up to it. He was certainly embraced and loved here as the starting qb, but have to agree. He fell short of expectations.

[4thand1 271]

It is a peculiar situation.

Last year had Rees as the OC and this year it's Parker. I was in favor of replacing Rees but I do favor him over Parker.

How many pass attempts last year vs this year?  

Hartman has been successful so it's a bit damning for ND that he regressed.  Some have said that Wake Forest actually had better WRs than ND has which is a sad state of affairs and hopefully not the case in the upcoming years.

The passing game has been broken most of this season from my viewpoint which is to say I haven't analyzed it thoroughly.  

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

Hartman/Parker > Pyne/Rees.  

[mcgov12 1,235]

Other side of that:

Hartman was 17th in the country this year in pass efficiency rating. We don’t win Duke and probably a few others without him.

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

7 hours ago, 4thand1 said:

It is a peculiar situation.

Last year had Rees as the OC and this year it's Parker. I was in favor of replacing Rees but I do favor him over Parker.

How many pass attempts last year vs this year?  

Hartman has been successful so it's a bit damning for ND that he regressed.  Some have said that Wake Forest actually had better WRs than ND has which is a sad state of affairs and hopefully not the case in the upcoming years.

The passing game has been broken most of this season from my viewpoint which is to say I haven't analyzed it thoroughly.  

 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

I guess I was a tad harsh Sams rating is 4 points better his yards per pass is about a yard longer

Hard to see

to answer

the question above

Hartman had 301 attempts

Pyne had 254(remember portaled prior to bowl)

 

Pyne rounds up to 65

Hartman rounds up to 64

 

Hartman 24 and 8

Pyne 22 and 6

 

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

16 minutes ago, mcgov12 said:

Other side of that:

Hartman was 17th in the country this year in pass efficiency rating. We don’t win Duke and probably a few others without him.

so 8/4 vs 9/3

Sam gave us 1. Did he help vs Louisville or Ohio State? I'm not sure. I just know the program went out on a pretty big limb for a marginal return.

[mcgov12 1,235]

11 minutes ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

so 8/4 vs 9/3

Sam gave us 1. Did he help vs Louisville or Ohio State? I'm not sure. I just know the program went out on a pretty big limb for a marginal return.

Not sure I agree with that take, they didn’t go out on a pretty big limb at all. There was no better qb on the roster that they lost, there was no downside to taking an experienced qb like him. If anything, I’d say this was way more positive for ND showing that you can take a high profile transfer at a high profile position and become an NIL star.

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

1 minute ago, mcgov12 said:

Not sure I agree with that take, they didn’t go out on a pretty big limb at all. There was no better qb on the roster that they lost, there was no downside to taking an experienced qb like him. If anything, I’d say this was way more positive for ND showing that you can take a high profile transfer at a high profile position and become an NIL star.

The value than was more off the field then on it? I like it. You cleared a roster spot. 2 qb's left, one returned. I think Sam looks better against Wake's schedule than he did against ND's.

[mcgov12 1,235]

6 minutes ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

The value than was more off the field then on it? I like it. You cleared a roster spot. 2 qb's left, one returned. I think Sam looks better against Wake's schedule than he did against ND's.

I can get behind that. He definitely fell short of at least my expectations. My biggest issue was just how turnovers and bad plays compounded and spiraled quickly.

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

12 minutes ago, mcgov12 said:

I can get behind that. He definitely fell short of at least my expectations. My biggest issue was just how turnovers and bad plays compounded and spiraled quickly.

It felt like he was very comfortable in our preseason(the first 4 games) The short 4th down run at Ohio State seemed to really changed things and the pass rush at Louisville against a Spindler who I think had his injury by then. I mean if for some reason Buchner would have flashed, we woulda had  alot of upset posters. As it was ND got away with it, had the expected season. I give more of that credit to Estime and the defense than Hartman. Sam did not hurt the expected season. He just didn't really move the needle either.

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

8 hours ago, 4thand1 said:

Some have said that Wake Forest actually had better WRs than ND has which is a sad state of affairs and hopefully not the case in the upcoming years.  

This is what I have heard as well.  And this is the crux.  The team as a whole is lightyears better than Wake.  However, the specific position group that would have benefitted Hartman the most was a bit sub par.  Had Hartman had access to Thomas, Colzie, and Salerno all season who knows what could have happen.

 

I just cannot take anyone seriously who would prefer to have had Drew friging Pyne over Same Hartman.  EL OH EL.  That chump couldn't last three games in Arizona State's program.  Come onnnnnnnnnnn.  This team just finished one of the highest scoring seasons offensively IN PROGRAM HISTORY.  We all watched how bad Pyne was last season.  Does anyone realllllllllly think Pyne would have come anywhere close to what Hartman pulled off this season?  Stop...

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

1 minute ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

This is what I have heard as well.  And this is the crux.  The team as a whole is lightyears better than Wake.  However, the specific position group that would have benefitted Hartman the most was a bit sub par.  Had Hartman had access to Thomas, Colzie, and Salerno all season who knows what could have happen.

 

I just cannot take anyone seriously who would prefer to have had Drew friging Pyne over Same Hartman.  EL OH EL.  That chump couldn't last three games in Arizona State's program.  Come onnnnnnnnnnn.  This team just finished one of the highest scoring seasons offensively IN PROGRAM HISTORY.  We all watched how bad Pyne was last season.  Does anyone realllllllllly think Pyne would have come anywhere close to what Hartman pulled off this season?  Stop...

Can you take seriously anyone who would take Jack Coan over Sam Hartman?

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

2 minutes ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

Can you take seriously anyone who would take Jack Coan over Sam Hartman?

That's a way better comparison.  I would love to have seen what Coan could have done with this offense.  Although, I would also argue that Coan's receivers in 21 were, if not better, definitely more experienced, than this group in 23.

[mcgov12 1,235]

4 minutes ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

That's a way better comparison.  I would love to have seen what Coan could have done with this offense.  Although, I would also argue that Coan's receivers in 21 were, if not better, definitely more experienced, than this group in 23.

Totally agree…I thought once they went to a more uptempo offense with Coan he was very good for them. I think he’s a good comparison

[FaithInIrish Forever 4,703]

1 minute ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

That's a way better comparison.  I would love to have seen what Coan could have done with this offense.  Although, I would also argue that Coan's receivers in 21 were, if not better, definitely more experienced, than this group in 23.

ready to be suprised?

Coans rating 152.2

Pynes rating 155.3

Hartman's rating 159.5

How on earth to they(ESPN) figure that stat?

[jessemoore97 1,274]

The WR group was young and injured most of the season.  I fully expected Thomas to be Mr Reliable this season, Colzie showed flashes towards the end of last year and was lost this season.

Hartman was exactly what we wanted with a QB who wasn't afraid to toss the long ball, arguably that what he likes to do the most and how WF offense was set up/he's used to.  However what we didn't get was his willingness to hit the short and intermediate passes over the middle.  This is what Pyne relied on with Mayer last season, with the TE drag routes.

Good defenses who could cover took away the downfield threats and could pressure SH.  They saw that he wasn't very good with his timing and averse to hitting short and intermediate routes over the middle especially.  

We need to develope a QB who can make all the throws and read what the defense is giving them.  No more midgets who can't see over the line or have their passes knocked down at the LOS.