McElroy thinks USC should call Brian Kelly

[coltssb 1,044]

28 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2019/09/15/gophers-offense-will-continue-to-run-first-pass-when-necessary/amp/

 

Sorry, but that style of play isn’t going to cut it against the top tier competition.

That article was from 2019. BUT, he has already had two of his running backs go down for the season. So, I’m not sure if he’s still run heavy or not. 
As for the style of play nowadays…

I disagree about outdated. Sure we don’t need to get the meat helmets out, but there are many ways to win a football game. 
 

Take for example. When Florida State came to ND in 93’. They had all the athletes and the speed. No way Nd could keep up. BUT ND out powered them and road that to victory. It’s a nice thing to fall back on if the passing game isn’t working.  Which most teams can’t do anymore.  Look at what Wisky used to do 3-5 seasons ago. Look how Stanford used to clobber Oregon every year when they had all that speed and threw it around.  
It doesn’t always have to be about RPO’s and passing every down. 
Look at what has happened now that Nd can run the ball and Williams is a force again.  The games are as close as they used to be. I would put money on it that Nd would beat Cincy if they played today because how ND is running the ball. 
Different strokes for different folks my friend. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

4 minutes ago, coltssb said:

That article was from 2019. BUT, he has already had two of his running backs go down for the season. So, I’m not sure if he’s still run heavy or not. 
As for the style of play nowadays…

I disagree about outdated. Sure we don’t need to get the meat helmets out, but there are many ways to win a football game. 
 

Take for example. When Florida State came to ND in 93’. They had all the athletes and the speed. No way Nd could keep up. BUT ND out powered them and road that to victory. It’s a nice thing to fall back on if the passing game isn’t working.  Which most teams can’t do anymore.  Look at what Wisky used to do 3-5 seasons ago. Look how Stanford used to clobber Oregon every year when they had all that speed and threw it around.  
It doesn’t always have to be about RPO’s and passing every down. 
Look at what has happened now that Nd can run the ball and Williams is a force again.  The games are as close as they used to be. I would put money on it that Nd would beat Cincy if they played today because how ND is running the ball. 
Different strokes for different folks my friend. 

He is still running heavy lol.. Pretty sure like 2.5 runs per pass.

It's not that it can't work, it's just not going to beat any traditional powerhouse teams.

And it's not a scheme a school like USC would buy into.. 

[coltssb 1,044]

14 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

He is still running heavy lol.. Pretty sure like 2.5 runs per pass.

It's not that it can't work, it's just not going to beat any traditional powerhouse teams.

And it's not a scheme a school like USC would buy into.. 

I don’t know. When you’re averaging 4.7 yards a pop with 10 guys. I say that’s pretty good. Again, Wisky has done it for years. The one problem I see with the run heavy is if you get down you’re usually not going to come back. 
Navy has also given many blue bloods fits over the years. If they actually had more athletes they might be scary good. 
Hard to throw the ball all over the place when you never have the ball. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

3 minutes ago, coltssb said:

I don’t know. When you’re averaging 4.7 yards a pop with 10 guys. I say that’s pretty good. Again, Wisky has done it for years. The one problem I see with the run heavy is if you get down you’re usually not going to come back. 
Navy has also given many blue bloods fits over the years. If they actually had more athletes they might be scary good. 
Hard to throw the ball all over the place when you never have the ball. 

how many NCs has any of those teams won? Like I said, it's not going to be something a big name school will buy into. 

the only reason Navy causes havoc is because teams aren't used to playing that style. 

it's fine for a team like MN, but it's not a scheme that'll succeed at the highest levels.

Fleck would be better served if he adapted it to at least become more balanced.

[coltssb 1,044]

20 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

how many NCs has any of those teams won? Like I said, it's not going to be something a big name school will buy into. 

the only reason Navy causes havoc is because teams aren't used to playing that style. 

it's fine for a team like MN, but it's not a scheme that'll succeed at the highest levels.

Fleck would be better served if he adapted it to at least become more balanced.

Maybe true. But Urban was run first stay on schedule. Saban was run first. It was until recently did Saban change from run first to spread it out. BUT Saban still does his share of running. When his teams get down or need a drive they go right back to the run.  
Again, it doesn’t have to be extreme, but a more heavily run offense I think can still win a championship. 

[ndmike88 136]

Why is Franklin's name always mentioned as a candidate for these big name schools? What exactly has he done to attract such attention? At Ped State he has had one good season (2016) and his conference record is 40-26 (not counting this season)

Entering this season his record is 89-46. Yes he had Vanderbilt playing out of their minds the 3 years he was there but at Ped State he is a slightly better than average coach who fails to deliver when the spot light is on him...much like Kelly.

[JTennant 290]

8 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Purely my opinion, but if I'm Fickell, I'd go to USC..... USC does have it's attractiveness, as it's a fertile state, and the PAC is weak. And he'd likely have a long leash. I wouldn't go to a lesser name school at all, and why stay and go to a weak B12... If OSU ever opens up, he'll end up there... 

I think dominos will start to fall. I think Tucker (MSU) takes the LSU job. The favs for USC will then be Fickell and Franklin. Franklin is from PA, so just not sure why he would leave unless he's just wants less competition. Then you have guys like Campbell, Clawson, and Aranda. Aranda will be in the mix at LSU if Tucker doesn't take it. I think Campbell wants to get out of the B12. Clawson is an interesting name to me. 

I see Clawson going to MSU before USC. I feel like he's a coach who's more comfortable in a program with more lax expectations. USC you have to be top 5 in recruiting and playing for a championship every year.

Wake lets you develop 5th year athletes. MSU would be a good middle ground where they can recruit but will give you a pass with an 8-4 campaign.

All that said the money has to talk. Everyone has a price. Clawson is in the low 2 mill now if USC says base 7 and MSU says 4.5 I could see him going out west, but if money is comparable, I see him staying put or going for another solid program with tempered expectations.

My 2 pennies. I've been wrong before.

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

17 hours ago, coltssb said:

Maybe true. But Urban was run first stay on schedule. Saban was run first. It was until recently did Saban change from run first to spread it out. BUT Saban still does his share of running. When his teams get down or need a drive they go right back to the run.  
Again, it doesn’t have to be extreme, but a more heavily run offense I think can still win a championship. 

Urban and Saban being run first at one time is very different than 2.6 runs to 1 pass.....

And Saban has gone even further the other way after realization he needed to keep up with the times.

Like I said, PJ just needs to tweak things. Right now he's medieval times, which is fine if you're MN and trying to find a way to be different and give teams fits. GT tried it for years. Navy is still doing it. Other teams employing outside-the-norm Os. 

But.. if PJ ever wants to really compete on the same stage as the big guys, or be attractive to a big name, he'll have to make major tweaks. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

15 hours ago, JTennant said:

I see Clawson going to MSU before USC. I feel like he's a coach who's more comfortable in a program with more lax expectations. USC you have to be top 5 in recruiting and playing for a championship every year.

Wake lets you develop 5th year athletes. MSU would be a good middle ground where they can recruit but will give you a pass with an 8-4 campaign.

All that said the money has to talk. Everyone has a price. Clawson is in the low 2 mill now if USC says base 7 and MSU says 4.5 I could see him going out west, but if money is comparable, I see him staying put or going for another solid program with tempered expectations.

My 2 pennies. I've been wrong before.

Not saying Clawson to USC. Just he's an interesting name to me. USC should absolutely go for a big name, and Clawson really isn't to that level. As of right now, LSU and USC are the cherry spots.

Clawson should stay out of the B10 IMO. His chances of continued rise might be stifled at MSU. MSU has recruiting disadvantages and is a BB first school to me. I just don't think it's a big "step up" from Wake.

I'd try to find a better job in the ACC, PAC, or even B12. LSU would be an interesting place for Clawson, but like USC, I don't think he has the sexiness needed for LSU either. He does however need to get out of Wake whenever the opportunity presents itself. 

And he could lose a few games in short order, and we won't be talking about him much if he does. But he's still an interesting name that I think would do well elsewhere.

[coltssb 1,044]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Urban and Saban being run first at one time is very different than 2.6 runs to 1 pass.....

And Saban has gone even further the other way after realization he needed to keep up with the times.

Like I said, PJ just needs to tweak things. Right now he's medieval times, which is fine if you're MN and trying to find a way to be different and give teams fits. GT tried it for years. Navy is still doing it. Other teams employing outside-the-norm Os. 

But.. if PJ ever wants to really compete on the same stage as the big guys, or be attractive to a big name, he'll have to make major tweaks. 

Soooo if Georgia wins the championship does that change your narrative?  Stetson Bennett and J T Daniels aren’t exactly lighting it up passing and pass attempts. 
It can be done….

[coltssb 1,044]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Not saying Clawson to USC. Just he's an interesting name to me. USC should absolutely go for a big name, and Clawson really isn't to that level. As of right now, LSU and USC are the cherry spots.

Clawson should stay out of the B10 IMO. His chances of continued rise might be stifled at MSU. MSU has recruiting disadvantages and is a BB first school to me. I just don't think it's a big "step up" from Wake.

I'd try to find a better job in the ACC, PAC, or even B12. LSU would be an interesting place for Clawson, but like USC, I don't think he has the sexiness needed for LSU either. He does however need to get out of Wake whenever the opportunity presents itself. 

And he could lose a few games in short order, and we won't be talking about him much if he does. But he's still an interesting name that I think would do well elsewhere.

Now speaking of running offenses. I like Clawson but I find his offense really gimmicky. Like how you feel for Fleck, I’m the same for Clawson at Wake. I think his style works there but at LSU?  I think those stronger fast defenses would eat that “qb humping the running backs leg” up. Just my opinion but I think he’s best served at Wake. I’ve been wrong before…

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

1 hour ago, coltssb said:

Soooo if Georgia wins the championship does that change your narrative?  Stetson Bennett and J T Daniels aren’t exactly lighting it up passing and pass attempts. 
It can be done….

MN runs 2.6 times for every 1 pass.

UGA 1.6.... 

Huge difference. Not sure if you're attempting to be obtuse on purpose, or just not aware of the facts/stats.

And no, it won't change the narrative. 

Also, if you know about UGA, you'd know they are trying to update their O scheme too, to become more balanced.

1 hour ago, coltssb said:

Now speaking of running offenses. I like Clawson but I find his offense really gimmicky. Like how you feel for Fleck, I’m the same for Clawson at Wake. I think his style works there but at LSU?  I think those stronger fast defenses would eat that “qb humping the running backs leg” up. Just my opinion but I think he’s best served at Wake. I’ve been wrong before…

I'd call it weird within normal. They are very heavy RPO, and only 1.2ish ratio. The elongated RPO decision is really the only thing that's really odd. I would expect that would change and be more normalized RPO with better talent. 

Regardless, not on level of Fleck, and something that could change quickly with better recruits, and is not a drastic departure like a 2.6 run to pass ration is.. 

[coltssb 1,044]

47 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

MN runs 2.6 times for every 1 pass.

UGA 1.6.... 

Huge difference. Not sure if you're attempting to be obtuse on purpose, or just not aware of the facts/stats.

And no, it won't change the narrative. 

Also, if you know about UGA, you'd know they are trying to update their O scheme too, to become more balanced.

I'd call it weird within normal. They are very heavy RPO, and only 1.2ish ratio. The elongated RPO decision is really the only thing that's really odd. I would expect that would change and be more normalized RPO with better talent. 

Regardless, not on level of Fleck, and something that could change quickly with better recruits, and is not a drastic departure like a 2.6 run to pass ration is.. 

you sound like my friend when we argue baseball war. Which I also care two craps about. It’s the same reason Dusty Baker lost that World Series. It’s the same reason why Dave Roberts lost in the NLSC this year. It’s the same reason Kevin Cash lost when he pulled Blake Snell when he was dealing last year in the WS. They do what you’re doing. They pull out their book or computer and try to find analytics or data to back up their point. Those numbers and stats mean garbage to me. Is he winning or not?  
Another example, everyone keeps saying the NBA and big men are no longer. That style of championship is out the window. The slow pace is archaic. The Golden State Warriors changed the game. Well, you know what, and I called it, the Bucks won it all last year. Why? Because they had a big man who could play. Every time they needed a play they threw it down to Giannis and he scored. They couldn’t stop it. They had no big man that was good. The Bucks didn’t pitch up three after three. 
Now as for what you’re were saying…I get your point. 2.6 is more than 1.6. So…you’re right, I don’t know what 1.6 to 2.6 means. Is that one less rushing attempt per game?  Is it one attempt per ten? Is it 5 more rushing attempts a game?What is it?  To me all it tells me is he runs a few more times a game and has found a formula that works for his team. But think about this, when teams need to win down the stretch what do they do?  They run the ball!  It’s also a good formula for making teams tougher in the trenches. It’s also a good way to fight more athleticism with a lesser team. 
Tressel ball worked not to long ago. So did Saban ball. So did running the ball A LOT over 100 years. So why wouldn’t you think that formula would work all of the sudden with a more athletic bigger program?  I would think having too talent in all areas and you’ve shown you can win in the past with that formula, would only make it easier for you to win more. 
Anywyas, that was a ramble and sorry if I came off aggressive. I just hate number crunching data. Moneyball never won Billy Beane a World Series. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

1 hour ago, coltssb said:

you sound like my friend when we argue baseball war. Which I also care two craps about. It’s the same reason Dusty Baker lost that World Series. It’s the same reason why Dave Roberts lost in the NLSC this year. It’s the same reason Kevin Cash lost when he pulled Blake Snell when he was dealing last year in the WS. They do what you’re doing. They pull out their book or computer and try to find analytics or data to back up their point. Those numbers and stats mean garbage to me. Is he winning or not?  
Another example, everyone keeps saying the NBA and big men are no longer. That style of championship is out the window. The slow pace is archaic. The Golden State Warriors changed the game. Well, you know what, and I called it, the Bucks won it all last year. Why? Because they had a big man who could play. Every time they needed a play they threw it down to Giannis and he scored. They couldn’t stop it. They had no big man that was good. The Bucks didn’t pitch up three after three. 
Now as for what you’re were saying…I get your point. 2.6 is more than 1.6. So…you’re right, I don’t know what 1.6 to 2.6 means. Is that one less rushing attempt per game?  Is it one attempt per ten? Is it 5 more rushing attempts a game?What is it?  To me all it tells me is he runs a few more times a game and has found a formula that works for his team. But think about this, when teams need to win down the stretch what do they do?  They run the ball!  It’s also a good formula for making teams tougher in the trenches. It’s also a good way to fight more athleticism with a lesser team. 
Tressel ball worked not to long ago. So did Saban ball. So did running the ball A LOT over 100 years. So why wouldn’t you think that formula would work all of the sudden with a more athletic bigger program?  I would think having too talent in all areas and you’ve shown you can win in the past with that formula, would only make it easier for you to win more. 
Anywyas, that was a ramble and sorry if I came off aggressive. I just hate number crunching data. Moneyball never won Billy Beane a World Series. 

Run to pass.... 

Just to compare to the NFL... the average mix is around 0.9ish runs to 1 pass. 

Bama is 1.1 runs to 1 pass. This used to be a lot higher in terms of runs.

UGA 1.6 runs to 1 pass which is high, but like I said, they are in the process of trying to modernize (like Saban)... 

Fleck 2.6 runs to 1 pass. That's almost 3 times the norm in the NFL.... 

 

There's a reason why Saban, the GOAT coach chose to go the other way.... There's a reason why UGA is in the process of going the other way. There's a reason GT abandoned the triple option... In short, no big program, with aspirations of national championships will buy into the current Fleck system..... And it's doubtful any 5 star players would want to go and play in an antiquated system. In short, it's a system that is used to overcome recruiting deficiencies, be different, and cause matchup issues.

 

[AnTostal 766]

In this coaching carousel happening now, I wonder if any of the schools from which a coach will leave to move up the food chain might be kicking the tires on that young promising offensive coordinator at Norte Dame(?).

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

Hopefully none

[VCDomer 68]

He doesn’t have a unique thought in his pin head. He wants to be Kirk Herbstreet. 

[ELDER06 248]

On 11/3/2021 at 4:18 PM, coltssb said:

That article was from 2019. BUT, he has already had two of his running backs go down for the season. So, I’m not sure if he’s still run heavy or not. 
As for the style of play nowadays…

I disagree about outdated. Sure we don’t need to get the meat helmets out, but there are many ways to win a football game. 
 

Take for example. When Florida State came to ND in 93’. They had all the athletes and the speed. No way Nd could keep up. BUT ND out powered them and road that to victory. It’s a nice thing to fall back on if the passing game isn’t working.  Which most teams can’t do anymore.  Look at what Wisky used to do 3-5 seasons ago. Look how Stanford used to clobber Oregon every year when they had all that speed and threw it around.  
It doesn’t always have to be about RPO’s and passing every down. 
Look at what has happened now that Nd can run the ball and Williams is a force again.  The games are as close as they used to be. I would put money on it that Nd would beat Cincy if they played today because how ND is running the ball. 
Different strokes for different folks my friend. 

He just lost to Illinois… His Offense scored 6 points. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by ELDER06

[coltssb 1,044]

1 hour ago, ELDER06 said:

He just lost to Illinois… His Offense scored 6 points. 

So did Franklin. You’re point?  You’re going to bring up everyone loss someone has. Do you want me to hate ND?  Do you want me to bring up when ND gets waxed in a bowl game again?  Or if they lose this Navy game?  

[ELDER06 248]

3 hours ago, coltssb said:

So did Franklin. You’re point?  You’re going to bring up everyone loss someone has. Do you want me to hate ND?  Do you want me to bring up when ND gets waxed in a bowl game again?  Or if they lose this Navy game?  

I want you to realize you don’t know what you’re talking about.