McElroy thinks USC should call Brian Kelly

[ELDER06 248]

2 hours ago, coltssb said:

Cherry picking is comparing two different programs from two different conferences at two different times. You took Fleck’s first 5 years and comparing to Kelly’s coaching of year 16. Did you forget his Grand Valley State years and Central Michigan years?  So the man had years of experience before he took the cushy Cincinnati job.  One job that had a winning record prior. Fleck took probably the worst job in America at the time with NO experience and made Weatern Michigan a contender.  He did that in 4 years. That’s right, Fleck took a crappy program and made them legit in 4 years. Also got to a major power 5 conference in just 5 years of coaching. Kelly had to stay at Grand Valley for 13, then Central Michigan for three, then Cincy for three before coming to ND and FINALLY reaching that power 5 conference. Hmm. 
But enjoy. On my way to Maui and I love to just give you crap sometimes. Go Nd!

You mean how Kelly win championships at GVSU? Also, what’s Fleck done at MN other than 1 good year? And talk about ready made, he didn’t recruit any of those guys.

[jbrown_9999 1,023]

On 10/23/2021 at 1:22 PM, ELDER06 said:

Your casual dismissal of finding a realistic replacement is exactly what’s wrong with college football fans. Firing an objectively successful HC with no replacement is peak stupidity. As I said earlier, I’ll bet my life there’s going to be a good portion of UGA fans ready to push Smart out the door if they don’t win it all. Fans need to get a grip on reality or at least be mocked mercilessly when they say stupid crap. 

And I do believe Kelly can win a title, but the stars are going to have to align correctly where there’s no dominant team in CF that season. ND is never going to beat a team like ‘20 Bama or ‘19 LSU bc those are two of the best teams of all time. They could eventually have a team that beats a ‘17 Bama or ‘16 Clemson. 

 

 

@ELDER06 If you are such an authority, let's pretend that Brian Kelly retires at the end of the 2021 season. Who is on your short list to replace him for the 2022 season? 

[ELDER06 248]

2 hours ago, jbrown_9999 said:

 

@ELDER06 If you are such an authority, let's pretend that Brian Kelly retires at the end of the 2021 season. Who is on your short list to replace him for the 2022 season? 

Fickell- likely take the job

Campbell- likely take the job

O’Brien- maybe a long shot, but worth kicking the tires on.

If they can’t get any of them, then I make Freeman HC. I’m not hiring any Asst Coaches over him, regardless of experience. 

Before he got all handsy and embarrassed himself, Urban would’ve been hands down my top target. TBH, my hope was he’d leave the Jags at the end of next yr (we all know that’s not going to workout) take a yr or 2 off, have Kelly retire and have him step in for one last run at greatness at the college level. 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by ELDER06

[ELDER06 248]

I’m torn on how to handle Freeman. I do believe he’s invaluable to the sustained success at ND. However, I don’t think you can promise him anything yet. And if Franklin bolts for LSU or USC, Fickell is going to be the top tgt at Penn St and he probably takes that job. That means the Cincy job is open and guess who their top tgt would be.

 

[JTennant 290]

21 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

I’m torn on how to handle Freeman. I do believe he’s invaluable to the sustained success at ND. However, I don’t think you can promise him anything yet. And if Franklin bolts for LSU or USC, Fickell is going to be the top tgt at Penn St and he probably takes that job. That means the Cincy job is open and guess who their top tgt would be.

 

I hear you. But, if BK retires after '24, and Freeman is still the DC and we have a mediocre crop of head coaching candidates PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Bill O'Brien Mario Cristobal etc etc although what Bill O'Brien did at PSU was nothing short of a miracle winning 8 games with 50 scholarships I would rather roll the dice with a proven commodity on the recruiting trail than roll the dice with coaches who've had less success with less expectations and other BS to deal with.

At least we'd get someone who's seen how to steer the ship while coaching ball.

Remains to be seen but I feel, just feel like his defense is only going to get better and I feel like the issues we've seen with his defense so far are learning lessons for the players and himself where he's coaching against equal talent on offense where as Cincy they were pretty much more athletic than the offense they were facing every week.

By the time '24 rolls around there will be a new crop of head coaching candidates.. Think Kellen Moore not sure if he'll want to stay in the NFL or try college etc. Who knows, ND could have a top 10 defense that gets us to the playoff while the offense rides the bus and it would be a foregone conclusion not requiring any discussion about Brian Kelly's successor (wouldn't that be nice).

I also think that if Cincy comes calling for Freeman, he would have a serious sit down with Brian Kelly as to his plans beyond '24 assuming he's pulling down over a million/year now he might wait it out if coach doesn't plan to extend.

I think Texas did something similar to Muschamp and named him HC in waiting or assistant HC/DC and paid him a ridiculous sum(like 2x market value as a DC) to retain his "option" effectively..

Edited October 24, 2021 by JTennant

[ELDER06 248]

41 minutes ago, JTennant said:

I hear you. But, if BK retires after '24, and Freeman is still the DC and we have a mediocre crop of head coaching candidates PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Bill O'Brien Mario Cristobal etc etc although what Bill O'Brien did at PSU was nothing short of a miracle winning 8 games with 50 scholarships I would rather roll the dice with a proven commodity on the recruiting trail than roll the dice with coaches who've had less success with less expectations and other BS to deal with.

At least we'd get someone who's seen how to steer the ship while coaching ball.

Remains to be seen but I feel, just feel like his defense is only going to get better and I feel like the issues we've seen with his defense so far are learning lessons for the players and himself where he's coaching against equal talent on offense where as Cincy they were pretty much more athletic than the offense they were facing every week.

By the time '24 rolls around there will be a new crop of head coaching candidates.. Think Kellen Moore not sure if he'll want to stay in the NFL or try college etc. Who knows, ND could have a top 10 defense that gets us to the playoff while the offense rides the bus and it would be a foregone conclusion not requiring any discussion about Brian Kelly's successor (wouldn't that be nice).

I also think that if Cincy comes calling for Freeman, he would have a serious sit down with Brian Kelly as to his plans beyond '24 assuming he's pulling down over a million/year now he might wait it out if coach doesn't plan to extend.

I think Texas did something similar to Muschamp and named him HC in waiting or assistant HC/DC and paid him a ridiculous sum(like 2x market value as a DC) to retain his "option" effectively..

I don’t have a problem with that. But I hope this Illustrates my point, there’s not a lot of quality coaches out there. Firing a consensus top 10 HC in Kelly with no backup plan is reckless and shortsighted. 

[AnTostal 766]

42 minutes ago, JTennant said:

I hear you. But, if BK retires after '24, and Freeman is still the DC and we have a mediocre crop of head coaching candidates PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Bill O'Brien Mario Cristobal etc etc although what Bill O'Brien did at PSU was nothing short of a miracle winning 8 games with 50 scholarships I would rather roll the dice with a proven commodity on the recruiting trail than roll the dice with coaches who've had less success with less expectations and other BS to deal with.

At least we'd get someone who's seen how to steer the ship while coaching ball.

Remains to be seen but I feel, just feel like his defense is only going to get better and I feel like the issues we've seen with his defense so far are learning lessons for the players and himself where he's coaching against equal talent on offense where as Cincy they were pretty much more athletic than the offense they were facing every week.

By the time '24 rolls around there will be a new crop of head coaching candidates.. Think Kellen Moore not sure if he'll want to stay in the NFL or try college etc. Who knows, ND could have a top 10 defense that gets us to the playoff while the offense rides the bus and it would be a foregone conclusion not requiring any discussion about Brian Kelly's successor (wouldn't that be nice).

I also think that if Cincy comes calling for Freeman, he would have a serious sit down with Brian Kelly as to his plans beyond '24 assuming he's pulling down over a million/year now he might wait it out if coach doesn't plan to extend.

I think Texas did something similar to Muschamp and named him HC in waiting or assistant HC/DC and paid him a ridiculous sum(like 2x market value as a DC) to retain his "option" effectively..

I would be very intrigued if Cristobal’s name was seriously in the mix.  It seems like he has done pretty amazingly well at Oregon. I wonder if he would consider the ND job a step up or just lateral. 

[ELDER06 248]

29 minutes ago, AnTostal said:

I would be very intrigued if Cristobal’s name was seriously in the mix.  It seems like he has done pretty amazingly well at Oregon. I wonder if he would consider the ND job a step up or just lateral. 

It wouldn’t be. He’ll either stay at Oregon or take the Miami job. 

[jbrown_9999 1,023]

14 hours ago, JTennant said:

r Freeman, he would have a serious sit down with Brian Kelly as to his plans beyond '24 assuming he's pulling down over a million/year now he might wait it out if coach doesn't plan to extend.

I'm pretty sure that Freeman is in the $2 million range given the deals that other top DCs received and that LSU and ND both wanted him. Fickell is getting $3.4 million.

[JTennant 290]

25 minutes ago, jbrown_9999 said:

I'm pretty sure that Freeman is in the $2 million range given the deals that other top DCs received and that LSU and ND both wanted him. Fickell is getting $3.4 million.

Thats kinda what I was thinking also. I also heard on ESPNU radio it's highly possible that Fickell leverages these other teams interest to go ahead and get $5 million now since they're joining the Big12 soon. 

I just don't see how Fickell stays put with so many dominoes about to fall tho. 

[ELDER06 248]

7 hours ago, JTennant said:

Thats kinda what I was thinking also. I also heard on ESPNU radio it's highly possible that Fickell leverages these other teams interest to go ahead and get $5 million now since they're joining the Big12 soon. 

I just don't see how Fickell stays put with so many dominoes about to fall tho. 

There’s no way. He almost took the Mich St job and that’s a far cry from USC, LSU or Penn St. I do believe he prefers to stay in the Midwest, which is why of the 3 potential jobs, Penn St seems the most likely.

[coltssb 1,044]

On 10/23/2021 at 1:34 PM, ELDER06 said:

 I’m a Reds fan, I’m well aware of his reputation, but he just turned the table a bit by getting to the WS. 
 

 

As I said, Dusty Baker will always be Dusty Baker….

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:39 AM, JTennant said:

Thats kinda what I was thinking also. I also heard on ESPNU radio it's highly possible that Fickell leverages these other teams interest to go ahead and get $5 million now since they're joining the Big12 soon. 

I just don't see how Fickell stays put with so many dominoes about to fall tho. 

Purely my opinion, but if I'm Fickell, I'd go to USC..... USC does have it's attractiveness, as it's a fertile state, and the PAC is weak. And he'd likely have a long leash. I wouldn't go to a lesser name school at all, and why stay and go to a weak B12... If OSU ever opens up, he'll end up there... 

I think dominos will start to fall. I think Tucker (MSU) takes the LSU job. The favs for USC will then be Fickell and Franklin. Franklin is from PA, so just not sure why he would leave unless he's just wants less competition. Then you have guys like Campbell, Clawson, and Aranda. Aranda will be in the mix at LSU if Tucker doesn't take it. I think Campbell wants to get out of the B12. Clawson is an interesting name to me. 

[coltssb 1,044]

55 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Purely my opinion, but if I'm Fickell, I'd go to USC..... USC does have it's attractiveness, as it's a fertile state, and the PAC is weak. And he'd likely have a long leash. I wouldn't go to a lesser name school at all, and why stay and go to a weak B12... If OSU ever opens up, he'll end up there... 

I think dominos will start to fall. I think Tucker (MSU) takes the LSU job. The favs for USC will then be Fickell and Franklin. Franklin is from PA, so just not sure why he would leave unless he's just wants less competition. Then you have guys like Campbell, Clawson, and Aranda. Aranda will be in the mix at LSU if Tucker doesn't take it. I think Campbell wants to get out of the B12. Clawson is an interesting name to me. 

I don’t know why everyone thinks it’s a done deal with Fickell to Ohio State. Urban was supposed to go to ND. Dabo is on his way to Bama etc. I feel like once these guys go to a big time program and the administration loves them and pays them well. And they build that program up to be dominant. Why would they leave?  Why would Dabo leave now?  Why would Franklin leave now?  Chris Peterson didn’t leave after Washington. Mack Brown didn’t leave until he was fired. Carroll didn’t leave until sanctions. Stoops didn’t leave. And so on…Sure it’s fun to play on the PlayStation of building your dynasty up every 5 years. But who really wants to do that in real life besides Urban?  Remember, these guys have families and most of the time the woman rules the roost. Especially when family is settled down and kids are in school. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

27 minutes ago, coltssb said:

I don’t know why everyone thinks it’s a done deal with Fickell to Ohio State. Urban was supposed to go to ND. Dabo is on his way to Bama etc. I feel like once these guys go to a big time program and the administration loves them and pays them well. And they build that program up to be dominant. Why would they leave?  Why would Dabo leave now?  Why would Franklin leave now?  Chris Peterson didn’t leave after Washington. Mack Brown didn’t leave until he was fired. Carroll didn’t leave until sanctions. Stoops didn’t leave. And so on…Sure it’s fun to play on the PlayStation of building your dynasty up every 5 years. But who really wants to do that in real life besides Urban?  Remember, these guys have families and most of the time the woman rules the roost. Especially when family is settled down and kids are in school. 

 

A lot of guys move. Happens every year. 

Aside from Fickell's obvious playing and coaching history at OSU, he's also from Columbus. Sure, maybe he would land somewhere and love it, and become god-like to a school. But Fickell and OSU has just about everything that could pull someone some where, And I don't see Fickell's ceiling at USC being as high as Fickell at OSU. He could likely win CCs, but not NCs.

Dabo has done what I suggested above. He landed somewhere, and has become god like to the school. He's won most CCs and he beat Bama and got NCs. I wouldn't be shocked though if he jumped to Bama when Saban retires. Birmingham was home. Will be interesting to watch, but I don't see Saban retiring soon.

Franklin, if he's happy getting beat by OSU most years, he shouldn't leave. It's a good spot for him. But he could likely win the PAC in short order and do it on a regular basis, and recruit better on a regular basis. Depends on what he wants to do. 

 

[coltssb 1,044]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

 

A lot of guys move. Happens every year. 

Aside from Fickell's obvious playing and coaching history at OSU, he's also from Columbus. Sure, maybe he would land somewhere and love it, and become god-like to a school. But Fickell and OSU has just about everything that could pull someone some where, And I don't see Fickell's ceiling at USC being as high as Fickell at OSU. He could likely win CCs, but not NCs.

Dabo has done what I suggested above. He landed somewhere, and has become god like to the school. He's won most CCs and he beat Bama and got NCs. I wouldn't be shocked though if he jumped to Bama when Saban retires. Birmingham was home. Will be interesting to watch, but I don't see Saban retiring soon.

Franklin, if he's happy getting beat by OSU most years, he shouldn't leave. It's a good spot for him. But he could likely win the PAC in short order and do it on a regular basis, and recruit better on a regular basis. Depends on what he wants to do. 

 

And I get everyone of these points. I just don’t think it’s a slam dunk like most people think. I know it’s been laughed at but I still have one eye looking at Fleck.  

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

25 minutes ago, coltssb said:

And I get everyone of these points. I just don’t think it’s a slam dunk like most people think. I know it’s been laughed at but I still have one eye looking at Fleck.  

I like Fleck. I think he should have waited for a better gig than MN though.... 

MN just extended him thru 2028, so he's not going anywhere without a hefty buyout.

[ELDER06 248]

5 hours ago, coltssb said:

As I said, Dusty Baker will always be Dusty Baker….

Still got to WS with a team that’s not that good. Managers are getting phased out anyway. 

[ELDER06 248]

1 hour ago, coltssb said:

And I get everyone of these points. I just don’t think it’s a slam dunk like most people think. I know it’s been laughed at but I still have one eye looking at Fleck.  

He’s not going to succeed at a high level. His Offense is way outdated, he’s running Tressell Ball 2.0. 
 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by ELDER06

[ELDER06 248]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twincities.com/2019/09/15/gophers-offense-will-continue-to-run-first-pass-when-necessary/amp/

 

Sorry, but that style of play isn’t going to cut it against the top tier competition.

Edited November 3, 2021 by ELDER06