Remember when the US was a Superpower?

[echo88 74]

Map? Doesn't Syria go on pancakes?

 

Dirty Muslins.....

[TheRizz 5]

It is clear the entire world no longer views the US as a super cop and super power. We are about to see the world act out their aggressions because of it. Prepare yourself and plan accordingly.

[jessemoore97 1,291]

We are still a super power and the world does recognize us as such. Diminished, perhaps, but a super power both economically and militarily that has to be considered nonetheless.

 

Our failures in recent wars dating back to at least Vietnam, have not been because of losing battles or the battleplan itself, its the what to we do after that is killing us. We've had the mindset the a Marshal Plan will work for every scenario, without taking into consideration numerous cultural differences as others posted. While rebuilding infrastructure and the like is a good thing, nation building is an entirely different matter altogether.

 

Rebuilding Europe after WWII was a lot easier for the US because we have been intimately tied to the continent since our founding. Most of our population then was directly tied to Europe through immigration and the cultural ideologies we not far off from each other. Helping to rebuild an already industrialized society also helped. Rebuilding Japan was also far easier post war because of their willingness to Westernize years earlier in many areas of their culture and industrializing themselves.

 

We are trying to build other nations towards a "modern" society based in Western beliefs. We are taking for granted the numerous steps along the way that our culture(s) had to take in order for us to rise to where we are. The establishment of a middle working class/industrialization, less emphasis on or rejection of religion as a figure in government decisions, human rights and equality, etc. Its hard to just establish something out of nothing as an outside power, when there is no real base/bedrock to start from and the citizenry has little to no vested interest in the outcome because they haven't gone through the evolution and fought and bled for the change themselves.

 

Its just like life. No one can live yours for you. You have to make decisions for yourself, some may not work out for you and others may, but its the process and experience that makes you who you are. I think our government too often forgets that.

[VCDomer 68]

I advocate that we get out of the UN. Its a joke and serves no purpose with China, France and the Russians always aligning against us. Pull back our economic and military support from nations and rulers who do not align with our economic and political beliefs. Increase trade tarrifs with countries who are not balanced with us. Put embargos on products coming into our country from nations that are in bed with radical leaders and governments. Quit telling everybody what we are going to do before we do it. Just Do It ... and explain ourselves later. Protect This House!

[REMND 0]

We are still a super power and the world does recognize us as such. Diminished, perhaps, but a super power both economically and militarily that has to be considered nonetheless.

 

Our failures in recent wars dating back to at least Vietnam, have not been because of losing battles or the battleplan itself, its the what to we do after that is killing us. We've had the mindset the a Marshal Plan will work for every scenario, without taking into consideration numerous cultural differences as others posted. While rebuilding infrastructure and the like is a good thing, nation building is an entirely different matter altogether.

 

Rebuilding Europe after WWII was a lot easier for the US because we have been intimately tied to the continent since our founding. Most of our population then was directly tied to Europe through immigration and the cultural ideologies we not far off from each other. Helping to rebuild an already industrialized society also helped. Rebuilding Japan was also far easier post war because of their willingness to Westernize years earlier in many areas of their culture and industrializing themselves.

 

We are trying to build other nations towards a "modern" society based in Western beliefs. We are taking for granted the numerous steps along the way that our culture(s) had to take in order for us to rise to where we are. The establishment of a middle working class/industrialization, less emphasis on or rejection of religion as a figure in government decisions, human rights and equality, etc. Its hard to just establish something out of nothing as an outside power, when there is no real base/bedrock to start from and the citizenry has little to no vested interest in the outcome because they haven't gone through the evolution and fought and bled for the change themselves.

 

Its just like life. No one can live yours for you. You have to make decisions for yourself, some may not work out for you and others may, but its the process and experience that makes you who you are. I think our government too often forgets that.

 

I really follow your assessment. We are looking for the key and have possibly used the Marshall plan success as the paradigm for the Middle East where it doesn't work.

 

What haven't we tried?

 

Assisted Setting up dictators.

 

Sometime later toppling the same dictators

 

Helping to set up a Democracy only to watch extremist win the election with 51% and then get overthrown with a popular up rising.

 

Fight through proxies in Afghanistan and then our proxy turns into Al Queda.

 

Our best results seems to be Kuwait, Bosnia and Libya. We had true coalitions there.

 

I like the book From Beirut to Jerusalem. It basically told me that the Arab world is the true enigma wrapped in a mystery with a puzzle in there somewhere.

 

What do you do? Speak softly and carry a big stick? Look at Afghanistan. First we help Al Queda and then we have to fight their ally, the Taliban. That approach doesn't work in the Middle East.

 

Whatever the solution is, I don't want our troops, our dollars, and our goodwill to carry the burden of solution. Has to be a coalition in my mind.

[Irish4life 0]

I advocate that we get out of the UN. Its a joke and serves no purpose with China, France and the Russians always aligning against us. Pull back our economic and military support from nations and rulers who do not align with our economic and political beliefs. Increase trade tarrifs with countries who are not balanced with us. Put embargos on products coming into our country from nations that are in bed with radical leaders and governments. Quit telling everybody what we are going to do before we do it. Just Do It ... and explain ourselves later. Protect This House!

 

Couldnt agree more..

[jessemoore97 1,291]

I really follow your assessment. We are looking for the key and have possibly used the Marshall plan success as the paradigm for the Middle East where it doesn't work.

 

What haven't we tried?

 

Assisted Setting up dictators.

 

Sometime later toppling the same dictators

 

Helping to set up a Democracy only to watch extremist win the election with 51% and then get overthrown with a popular up rising.

 

Fight through proxies in Afghanistan and then our proxy turns into Al Queda.

 

Our best results seems to be Kuwait, Bosnia and Libya. We had true coalitions there.

 

I like the book From Beirut to Jerusalem. It basically told me that the Arab world is the true enigma wrapped in a mystery with a puzzle in there somewhere.

 

What do you do? Speak softly and carry a big stick? Look at Afghanistan. First we help Al Queda and then we have to fight their ally, the Taliban. That approach doesn't work in the Middle East.

 

Whatever the solution is, I don't want our troops, our dollars, and our goodwill to carry the burden of solution. Has to be a coalition in my mind.

 

I don't know. I too am tired of seeing our blood being spilled to fight someone else's war that we don't understand to begin with. I wasn't in favor of going to Iraq whatsoever.

[REMND 0]

That should be major criteria in decision making. Even when you are not tired of the operations that fall short of their goals. Sacrificing our citizens in foreign wars fighting for an outcome we cannot control is painful.

 

Decisions makers have a huge responsibility sending our citizens on foreign excursions. That was why I like the drones so much but their problems are becoming more apparent. They kill more innocents than enemies but I suspect that is true in many wars.

 

There is a solution somewhere but it is a moving target and changes carny rapidly.

 

I don't want to become isolationist. The Downside I have always seen on that approach was china closing its doors in the 14th century and falling way behind the rest of the world. We need to be engaged but in the Middle East success on such an effort is elusive.

[echo88 74]

Oh I remember...

[REMND 0]

This has really heated up. American sentiment for a limited strike is nearer 50%. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3825477/

 

International coalition is waiting for UN report but if it doesn't come pronto, I think NATO and other nations will join in.

 

The potential strike would be against military targets and not chemical manufacturing plants. I wonder why that is?

 

Turkey and the Arab league have already signed on. Why are they hiding behind us to use our hardware. I assume they do not have their own.

 

Britain is suffering from Iraq fatigue. Hopefully, a UN report that verifies the use of chemical weapons will change their tune.

 

I want an international coalition and then go forward. I would prefer congressional blessing but I do not believe the right can put their partisanship aside. They could drag out longer than the UN.

[chirodomer 47]

They came for you and I said nothing. They came for me and there was no one to help. I'm sure there are some people there who will hate us no matter what we do. If we know that they did it and if no one else is willing to help then I'm for a limited and surgical strike. It's not like we don't already have the equipment and weapons to rock the casbah......again!

[REMND 0]

They came for you and I said nothing. They came for me and there was no one to help. I'm sure there are some people there who will hate us no matter what we do. If we know that they did it and if no one else is willing to help then I'm for a limited and surgical strike. It's not like we don't already have the equipment and weapons to rock the casbah......again!

 

Limited and surgical sounds reasonable to me. What is the timing? I am now hearing September 9 for a congressional vote. End the recess and call them back now. The international coalition will hide behind our delay.

[Rocknes Shadow 0]

Do you blame Bush 1 for this? Instead of stepping in a squashing Iraq when they invaded Kuwait, he built a coalition, set a timetable for Iraq's withdrawal, and attacked once Iraq showed the world that they were not going to withdraw...and that seems to have set the precedent for all following conflicts.

 

Bush I did it well, followed international law and built effective coalitions.

 

Bush II crapped the bed, got in over his head, and was unqualified to lead the student council. Then he walks away leaving two wars and a sh-- economy, yet believes he succeeded. The guy will go down with Lyndon Johnson and Herbert Hoover as the leader of the exclusively members of the f---ed that up club.

 

Worst President ever...by far.

[GunSlinger 28]

Limited and surgical sounds reasonable to me. What is the timing? I am now hearing September 9 for a congressional vote. End the recess and call them back now. The international coalition will hide behind our delay.

 

This is what aggravates me. Fn congress is on vacation and they should have resumed session yesterday over this ****. Why wait 8 more days to deal with this?

[REMND 0]

Bush I did it well, followed international law and built effective coalitions.

 

Bush II crapped the bed, got in over his head, and was unqualified to lead the student council. Then he walks away leaving two wars and a sh-- economy, yet believes he succeeded. The guy will go down with Lyndon Johnson and Herbert Hoover as the leader of the exclusively members of the f---ed that up club.

 

Worst President ever...by far.

 

Bush I is the paradigm I think. Kuwait was just a really good job by all concerned.

 

The delay is maddening since it is tempting to just go in. Maybe there is a benefit. Both parties are going to have to own the result assuming the administration does not cherry pick the information. Maybe this is a way to separate those who can work across the aisle from those that cannot.

 

I agree with Chiro though. A limited surgical strike is all that I am prepared for. I want the strikes knocking out the chemical manufacturing capabity as well though.

 

The Arab League and NATO should be spear heading this. It will help to isolate Iran and Russia with their support of Assad.

[NDMJ1984 0]

Bush I did it well, followed international law and built effective coalitions.

 

Bush II crapped the bed, got in over his head, and was unqualified to lead the student council. Then he walks away leaving two wars and a sh-- economy, yet believes he succeeded. The guy will go down with Lyndon Johnson and Herbert Hoover as the leader of the exclusively members of the f---ed that up club.

 

Worst President ever...by far.

 

 

Keep watching MSNBC. GW Bush has been exonerated of any illegality by two separate UN tribunals. He entered Iraq and Afghanistan with approval of a Democrat controlled Congress (including supporting votes from Harry Reid and Hillary). His only failure was his reluctance to invade the Afghan tribal lands, which he only did to prevent OPEC from jacking oil prices even higher than $150 a barrel.

 

Regarding the economy - see Clinton, Bill. NAFTA sent millions of manufacturing jobs to Mexico and his "everyone should own a home (they can't afford)" policy was a Molotov cocktail that exploded into the mortgage crisis. Had Bush not cut the cap gains tax to keep the markets afloat, 2008 would have been 2001. Add in all the lazy (liberal) Europeans who think they don't actually have to repay money they borrow, and here we are.

 

But you go right ahead and keep blaming someone else for the problems facing our country, seems to be working out great for our President and his 44% approval rating...

[ObieKnobbe 47]

Keep watching MSNBC. GW Bush has been exonerated of any illegality by two separate UN tribunals. He entered Iraq and Afghanistan with approval of a Democrat controlled Congress (including supporting votes from Harry Reid and Hillary). His only failure was his reluctance to invade the Afghan tribal lands, which he only did to prevent OPEC from jacking oil prices even higher than $150 a barrel.

 

Regarding the economy - see Clinton, Bill. NAFTA sent millions of manufacturing jobs to Mexico and his "everyone should own a home (they can't afford)" policy was a Molotov cocktail that exploded into the mortgage crisis. Had Bush not cut the cap gains tax to keep the markets afloat, 2008 would have been 2001. Add in all the lazy (liberal) Europeans who think they don't actually have to repay money they borrow, and here we are.

 

But you go right ahead and keep blaming someone else for the problems facing our country, seems to be working out great for our President and his 44% approval rating...

 

 

I am starting the slow clap now... nicely said, another one to add to Clinton is the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.