To our more religious members...a few questions

[nd1baby 0]

How did all the matter in the universe fit in an infinitesimally small spot?

 

What existed before the Big Bang?

 

What is the Universe expanding into?

 

What caused life to be created for the first time?

 

We can all ask questions that don't have good answers.

 

 

Hence, the saying "God only knows".

 

 

C'mon Green Goblin, you know you chuckled. LOL.

[ND3 0]

I realize that from the outside looking in, it seems difficult to believe, but that is what faith is. If it was easy and made perfect sense to everyone there would be no room for doubt and no room for faith. Being a Christian is not about having somewhere to go when you die.

 

Before I came to faith in Christ I too thought that it looked like a crutch for people afraid of death, but there is more to it than that. It is accepting that there is more to life than just you as an individual. Living life as a Christian is never convenient, nor easy. It is a constant battle against self in which you have to deny natural urges to be rude, calloused, jaded, arrogant, selfish, ignorant, etc... And it is struggling against your own sinful nature. It is difficult. Being a disciple of Christ requires discipline. And faith.

 

So, if the Christian moral code is critically important, and if it was a key part in your journey to Christianity, what made you choose it over, say, Buddhism? They are very similar when describing how one should conduct oneself, with the main difference being that Christianity encourages (almost requires) one to spread the Word. What makes the morality of Christianity better than even Hammurabi's Code (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth)?

 

What part of religion is made up fiction? The parts you don't agree with?

 

Being nice to your neighbor? Living to a moral code? Helping those who can't help themselves?

 

All of these ideals outdate Christianity.

 

Is it any more made up than scientists being unable to explain the origin of the Universe after all these years? Or that theory after theory has been dismissed as wrong? That now we are on to M-Theory, or string theory, or super-string theory, or M-Brane theory, hoping that might link up all of the other theories, because so far nothing has been able to. How is that really any different than religion in the end?

 

The difference is that science strives to gain knowledge to get a more perfect representation of the world. It's a never-ending quest of discovery to improve the world. Most religions say "this is what's right" and followers accept it. Science starts with a question, religion starts with an answer.

 

It is a bunch of people trying to explain the origin of everything. Many disagree. Even among the highest level science today, their is disagreement about which theory holds the most promise, which one is right, which one is accurate.

 

Why is asking thus far unanswerable questions in a scientific method any better than asking them from a religious point of view? Same questions, different ways to try to answer them, thus far, no 100% correct answer.

 

You're right-- nobody knows the answer to these questions. It's a question of which answer is most likely. Based on the current knowledge of astrophysics, many scientists believe in the Big Bang and are pursuing string theory. If you think the best and most logical explanation to these questions is creationism/Christianity, then I have no right to dispute you. It should be well-thought out though, which is clearly the case for you.

 

How did all the matter in the universe fit in an infinitesimally small spot?

 

I'm no astrophysist, but I'll try-- It was almost like a black hole. The more mass you get in one spot, the stronger the gravitational force is, the more dense it becomes. Scientists speculate that gravity was stronger when the universe was young, and they defend it by pointing to the loss of entropy over time.

 

What existed before the Big Bang?

 

Perhaps a universe? Maybe it's a long cycle- Big Bang, universe is created, expands, reaches its limit, contracts into a tiny space, Big Bang...

 

What is the Universe expanding into?

 

Trying to wrap my head around this question and think of a reasonable answer hurts my brain.

 

What caused life to be created for the first time?

 

If you are looking for the answer to this question based on the theory of evolution, it's a wiki search away.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=origin+of+life+wiki

 

We can all ask questions that don't have good answers.

 

That's the thing that's so great about science! 100 years ago, there were no good anwers for how disease spread, how our genes were stored, how particles traveled, etc. Science asks the hard, tough questions that have no good answers, and tries to answer them. Even if we have 100 wrong hypotheses before we find the right one, we have still gained knowledge and discovered something new to build on for the next challenge.

 

As an aside: "Through the Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman is a TV show that I would recommend. It is a show that talks about these types of questions, and it does a great job of explaining the current research and theories to someone with little background in the field (like myself-- my only background is an undergrad engineering education- physics, chemistry, biology, thermodynamics classes- independent research, and friends in the field)

Edited November 28, 2012 by ND3

[corysold 0]

Thank you for that insightful post.

 

There are many questions that as you pointed out don't really have defined answers.

 

You made some distinctions between science and religion, that while accurate, I'm not sure it is quite as cut and dry.

 

Like science, religion has changed over time. As new truths have been revealed, most religions change as well. While they hold true to the original tenets on which they are founded, most will allow changes to be made as they evolve over time.

 

You are right that many of the aspects of religion, the moral codes, etc., predate the actual founding of a religion, but I don't see why that can't be a defining characteristic of a religion. In the end, I think all religions are trying to answer the question of where we came from and what our purpose is, though they may do it in different ways. Does the fact there are multiple religions make it so any religion is wrong? I don't think so, no more than having two scientists with varying opinions.

 

In the end, is a Christian and Muslim slightly disagreeing over the creation of the Universe really that much different than two astrophysicists disagreeing over whether they should pursue a singular universe model vs. a multi-universe model? Not really in my opinion.

 

I don't have quite the background you do, but I've tried to educate myself in the sciences. The thing I find fascinating about it is, similar to religion, the more answers you get, the more questions arise. As you said, science is searching for a truth, but at this point, it appears it is a never-ending search. Will science one day be able to pinpoint the origin of everything? Who really knows, but I find it a fascinating search. Atoms were the smallest. Then electrons and protons. Then quarks. Now the Higgs is the big find. What is after that? What will come of this new multi-verse theory that M-theory is creating with branes and such. Who knows.

 

But I think that religion and science intersect to a degree. As you suggested, religion somewhat starts with the premise, at least Christianity, that God created everything to get where we are today.

 

Science is trying to go the other direction. We are where we are today, how did we get here. What if those two end up intersecting? What if science ends up proving God? What if they can end up disproving Him? What would finding life on other planets say? What if the 10-D and 11-D models being bantered about now are accurate?

 

So to end this rambling, to me it is almost two separate avenues to the same answer. In my faith, I am trying to discern what exactly is my point of being here. What am I called to do by He who created me. I fully understand all the problems with religion and think there should be a separation of "faith" and "religion". I believe in Catholic doctrine, but not everything Catholics have done, if that makes sense.

 

Science is trying to answer that same question. Who are we? Why are we here? Until one side or the other comes up with a 100% definitive answer, this debate is going to continue indefinitely.

[DREWGOOSE 1]

In a religious class I once took, a priest told us something to the point of

 

I would rather believe, have faith and act accordingly to the Lord and be wrong and there is no afterlife or God....what is the worst that can happen.?

 

then

 

not believing and have there be afterlife and God....what is the worst that can happen then?

 

hope i worded this good enough to understand

[jessemoore97 1,295]

I used to be right there with you...the answer being I don't know...but after thinking about it for a while more I realized I do know one answer.

 

Religion is a total farce. We all know this. We might be intelligently designed(highly doubt it), there could be some higher power but EVERYTHING else religion says is obviously 100% made-up fiction.

 

It's so painfully obvious we should all realize it...

 

Again I don't know the answer. You are simply referring to the stories or parables told in religious texts that speak of fantastic events and adventures that occurred to someone, somewhere in the past. I don't necessarily believe the word for word version of events as they are written currently. I do think that, however miniscule the possibility, these stories have some basis in fact.

 

For instance the flood story(Noah) depicted in the Bible, which often is cited as coming from the Persian story of Gilgamesh. However most ancient cultures claim a flood story who are worlds away from ancient Persia. We are now starting to see areas off our current coastlines, which thousands of years ago used to be dry habitable land and are now yielding amazing finds of human settlement. It doesn't prove the Noah version of the flood, but the fact that a massive flood or succession of them occurred all over the world leaves that possible kernel of truth to some of the stories found in religious texts. This is just one example.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

so why did god never reveal himself to half of Asia, Africa and both Americas? Does he not love them too?

 

Why does God only whisper to people when they are all alone? Pretty convenient right?

 

Why does the pope live in a palace? Is that what Jesus promoted?

 

How come religion has been the cause of more bloodshed then just about anything else on Earth?

 

Talking religion to someone like you is like playing one of those games with a little kid where they just keep making up rules to their own benefit ya know?

 

1) It depends on the way of thinking. I remember asking a similar question to my pastor during Confirmation. He basically told me that since all mankind originate in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, man has known God. Therefore if God's teaching wasn't passed onto others it was man's fault as we spread out onto the world. Again paraphrasing from over 20+ years ago.

 

On the other hand how do we know that God or the Creator didn't reveal themselves to everyone around the world? Kind of the we are talking about the same thing, but refer to it by a different name. Putting all the fantastic events attributed to religious stories aside for a moment, the base teachings are still the same in most every religion morality, love, etc. What if that is the only message that needs passing on from the "Creator", and the message is just slightly different from one person to the next, or region of the world to the next, etc? I've always thought if we as a global society could just get this down, how far could we go?

 

2) Don't really have an answer. Inspiration or whatever one chooses to call it can occur in many forms.

 

3) Not Catholic, don't really care. There are many gaudy and flashy things in this world that I disagree with.

 

4) I disagree. Religion by itself isn't the cause of all the bloodshed you mention. Its greed. Religion gets the rap because it was merely the tool to organize and rally support for one person's vision of the world. Greed is the base driving force behind war and all the bad things that people do to each other.

[EddieAngel 508]

So, if the Christian moral code is critically important, and if it was a key part in your journey to Christianity, what made you choose it over, say, Buddhism?

 

Great question. I chose Buddhism first actually. I was a practicing Buddhist for a couple of years but felt that it was lacking something. I tried to understand what was missing, indoctrinating myself in the justice of karma and the zen aspect of it all, but it was very hollow. Some people might find it to be satisfying, but I felt the presence of something bigger calling me elsewhere. I appreciate Buddhists, they are great people, but I believe that they are incorrect in the idea of reincarnation.

 

They are very similar when describing how one should conduct oneself, with the main difference being that Christianity encourages (almost requires) one to spread the Word. What makes the morality of Christianity better than even Hammurabi's Code (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth)?

 

Any religion that encourages a person to seek the truth and then keep it to themselves would be terrible. When you find something you really enjoy do you share it with your friends and family? If you found the ultimate truth of life you would feel obligated as well.

 

IRT Hammurabi's code. Christian Morality revolves around justice tempered with mercy and grace. Hammurabi's code revolves around justice, period. I can't debate with you why one is better than the other, you either believe that mercy with justice is better than justice, or you don't.

 

I don't understand why people are so combative of the issue. I always wonder why atheists, agnostics, science types, whatever, are so hellbent on convincing Christians that there is no afterlife and no God. A Christian finds what he believes to be the key to eternal life and wants to share it. The fruits of the Christian life are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. I fail to understand why someone would feel so inclined to rally against such things?

 

If Jesus came offering life eternal, what are you offering that would be so compelling that would make me change my mind? I have done the research, I have exercised my doubts and skepticism, I have searched for evidence for and against the case for Christ and I have come away in faith.

 

I PRAY the same for all of you who do not believe. I hope you all enjoy the CHRISTMAS season.

[jessemoore97 1,295]

 

I don't understand why people are so combative of the issue. I always wonder why atheists, agnostics, science types, whatever, are so hellbent on convincing Christians that there is no afterlife and no God. A Christian finds what he believes to be the key to eternal life and wants to share it. The fruits of the Christian life are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. I fail to understand why someone would feel so inclined to rally against such things?

 

 

Why are people of different religions so hellbent on convincing each other that the name they choose to call God is the correct one? These religions promote many of the exact same ideals of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. I agree with what you are saying about atheists, etc that you listed, but it also applies towards people of different faiths.

 

IMO it all boils down to power and greed. The more people you have on your side the more power you have along with all the "assets" that comes with.

[EddieAngel 508]

Why are people of different religions so hellbent on convincing each other that the name they choose to call God is the correct one? These religions promote many of the exact same ideals of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. I agree with what you are saying about atheists, etc that you listed, but it also applies towards people of different faiths.

 

IMO it all boils down to power and greed. The more people you have on your side the more power you have along with all the "assets" that comes with.

 

I have never benefited from the number of Christians in the world and I certainly have never gotten assets from it. While there are many bad people in this world, I think that most people of faith are convinced that their faith is the right one and they want other people to know the truth is well.

 

There is always the one percent of people who want to take advantage of others, but most people are genuine in wanting to share something good with someone else.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

 

I PRAY the same for all of you who do not believe. I hope you all enjoy the CHRISTMAS season.

 

christmas u mean that winter solstice/pagan holiday that has been celebrated long before christianity. ;D

[EddieAngel 508]

christmas u mean that winter solstice/pagan holiday that has been celebrated long before christianity. ;D

 

You celebrate whatever you want I am going to celebrate the OBSERVED birthday of Jesus Christ. Yes, us Christians are aware that this date was likely chosen to coincide with aforementioned Pagan celebration.

[corysold 0]

I think the biggest question that has come up from this thread is, why do I still come to open...

 

I don't know, I think this was one of the more civilized efforts I e seen on this matter. Kudos to all involved.

[coastereight 6]

I think the spread of agnosticism and atheism in this country is directly related to the fact that they do more evangelizing for their religion than all Christian denominations combined...

[Tenacious_ND 0]

I think the spread of agnosticism and atheism in this country is directly related to the fact that they do more evangelizing for their religion than all Christian denominations combined...

 

lol.. come on dude its not even close. ive never had an agnostic/atheist come to my door ever.. obviously you have a problem with agnosticism and atheism.

[coastereight 6]

lol.. come on dude its not even close. ive never had an agnostic/atheist come to my door ever.. obviously you have a problem with agnosticism and atheism.

 

#1 I am Catholic and have never had my door knocked on by another Catholic, or heard of it happening.

 

#2 It's become hard to be a legitimate practicing religious person in the country, so tell me agnostics and atheists don't "evangelize" their faith, or lack thereof. You just have faith that God doesn't exist. It's still faith.

Edited March 3, 2015 by coastereight

[Jersey Irish 205]

I believe and I am not ignorant or stupid. I was a skeptic for a long time but I see the proof in every day life.

 

I realize that from the outside looking in, it seems difficult to believe, but that is what faith is. If it was easy and made perfect sense to everyone there would be no room for doubt and no room for faith. Being a Christian is not about having somewhere to go when you die.

 

Before I came to faith in Christ I too thought that it looked like a crutch for people afraid of death, but there is more to it than that. It is accepting that there is more to life than just you as an individual. Living life as a Christian is never convenient, nor easy. It is a constant battle against self in which you have to deny natural urges to be rude, calloused, jaded, arrogant, selfish, ignorant, etc... And it is struggling against your own sinful nature. It is difficult. Being a disciple of Christ requires discipline. And faith.

 

Sadly, you can't explain faith, you just have to have it. There will come a time in your life, just like everyone else, where you will be confronted with something larger than yourself, and you will either come to faith or you won't. I hope you see I am not talking down to you, I empathize with you because five years ago I was in the same boat. Skeptical, agitated, smh at Christians. I didn't have that kind of a-ha moment that some people have where something bad happens and I needed faith, I was lucky enough to have a real moment of clarity.

 

I hope this happens for you as well. You seem like a real nice person (Which is just as possible in the secular world as in the Christian world) and you are curious, which is good, even if you are skeptical and maybe a little cynical. If you are genuinely curious about any of the Christian doctrines or beliefs I would be happy to answer, and if I can't answer I can get an answer for you.

 

Cheers, --EA

 

Exactly! That's why it is called faith! Believe!

[Tenacious_ND 0]

#1 I am Catholic and have never had my door knocked on by another Catholic, or heard of it happening. Weird protestants hurt legit religion and are obnoxious as their theology is full of contradictions and flaws. They're good at making all Christians look ignorant and crazy.

 

#2 Obviously I'm just being a d$#K because threads like these are also obnoxious. But I do think it's true as their message is everywhere in everyday life. On the tv, the internet, magazines, etc. It's become hard to be a legitimate practicing religious person in the country, so tell me agnostics and atheists don't "evangelize" their faith, or lack thereof. It's all the same. You just have faith that God doesn't exist. It's still faith.

 

#1 one word to describe catholic.. pedophiles.

 

#2 ive never seen a TV program broadcast atheism like christianity, seems like every damn weekend morning i wake up to some dumb arse preacher all because my wife doesnt shut the TV off when she falls asleep..

 

i dont have faith that god doesnt exist, im 100% positive noone knows if there is a god or not and the probability of the xian God is extremely low, less likely than evolution.

[coastereight 6]

#1 one word to describe catholic.. pedophiles.

 

#2 ive never seen a TV program broadcast atheism like christianity, seems like every damn weekend morning i wake up to some dumb arse preacher all because my wife doesnt shut the TV off when she falls asleep..

 

i dont have faith that god doesnt exist, im 100% positive noone knows if there is a god or not and the probability of the xian God is extremely low, less likely than evolution.

 

#1 Yeah because priests aren't human beings capable of human failure.

 

#2 You're 100% positive? How is evolution more likely, considering how perfect everything had to turn out for life to even exist? How is evolution more likely, if you're 100% positive that no one knows whether or not God exists? You just contradicted yourself, and it took less than a short paragraph.

Edited March 3, 2015 by coastereight

[Morgandonor 30]

I have seen 12 monkeys in my life time walk right out of the jungle and evolve into humans...I banged 2 rocks together really hard and created another planted full of different life forms. All planets lining up exactly at the right time allowed me to do this. Tell me what you have done. God is the creator.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

why do we have tail bones!! did adam and eve have them? how did the entire earth get populated with humans? one man one woman.. eeeeeewwww thats gross! and what about dinosaur bones i know i know the devil put them here. ;D