Kelly needs to step down

[NDFootballGuy 38]

5 minutes ago, cali_domer said:

"People do what they want to do."  A quote from a mentor of mine.  Meaning, if ND wants to win a national championship in the current CFB environment, it's certainly possible.  But what are you willing to do to go get it?  With a $14.3B endowment, paying a top name $10-$12M/year and hiring a top staff shouldn't be an issue.

[cali_domer 295]

32 minutes ago, NDFootballGuy said:

"People do what they want to do."  A quote from a mentor of mine.  Meaning, if ND wants to win a national championship in the current CFB environment, it's certainly possible.  But what are you willing to do to go get it?  With a $14.3B endowment, paying a top name $10-$12M/year and hiring a top staff shouldn't be an issue.

Minus the endowment which usually has specific purposes ND has enough money to pay what they want. But as you said it takes a commitment to be the best. In reality ND would not have to change that much. I have read from former athletes that the admissions stuff while a minor bump in the road. is largely overplayed. The support system that ND has for athletes is second to none.  I have read on ND nation  actual experiences from athletes going through the process. This was one that stuck out to me https://ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=hof;pid=2128;d=this

[NDNorm 50]

Where is this whole notion of a "big name coach" being interested or not, coming from?? How many times does a CURRENT big name coach leave where they are?  If you're a big name coach, that means you're already likely at a big name program, which means, going to ANOTHER big name program is basically a lateral move.  The Urban to OSU thing was an absolute rarity since he was out of the game at the time. Coaches with big names & great records of winning don't leave the program they're at to go to a different one, unless in another very rare instance, they have some kind of strong ties to that school or area. 

Look at most of the coaches considered the great/legendary ones now or in recent memory....they were NOT big name guys... till they were. Lou and Era were not when they came here. Dabo wasn't, Stoops wasn't, Jimmy J. wasn't, etc etc etc. Bama *may* get lucky when Saban retires if Dabo wants the job. No matter how big your program is, the best you can realistically hope for is to identify the guy who has all the traits and everything you're looking for, and who has been doing great things at a smaller, less prestigious program, and who is ready for the next step/challenge.  That guy for us, WAS Kelly several years ago, and I was totally on board w/the hire.  I personally think it's time for new blood at the top. With any luck, the next guy can sustain the current success and then take the next step(s).

Edited October 20, 2021 by NDNorm

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

16 hours ago, JTennant said:

I disagree with the last part. I feel like the current culture (AD, admissions, facilities etc) is one that would attract a big name hire if Brian Kelly steps away.

Unlike 2003-04 ish whenever they tried to get Urban Meyer(although he was an up an comer) and had him seriously contemplating it but ultimately went to Florida as he knew he could win right away. My point was that then ND probably had zero shot of getting a home-run hire and now I think they have a much better chance. It's a program that's turn-key basically.

 

What of the current top coaches would come?

Urbs had a connection, and still chose somewhere else. Facilities had zero to do with it. Admin is actually tougher on academic standards now than then. And a lot of sentiment within the cake eaters is that ND already places too much focus on football.

15 hours ago, cali_domer said:

I love condescending behavior, because it is my specialty. 😀

lol. I don't know the full audience here yet.. 

8 hours ago, ndfanatic78 said:

If you think ND doesn’t have bag men you are kidding yourself. The geography thing is over played. OSU is in no better shape and ND has one of the most beautiful campuses. Columbus is a shit hole and OSU literally backs up to projects and high crime areas. Again weather is over played as there are plenty of schools that compete that have cold winters. None of that had changed in the 100 years of ND football but all of sudden we can’t win because of it. The only thing that matters is landing the kids that can make it at ND. Now on the academics side ND needs to allow 3 - 4 border line exceptions every year and accept that 2 - 3 of might not make it but the others can be the difference between another NC and ND dying as a major football brand. 

• I don't think ND has bagmen. Perhaps in the Holtz days, but not now.
• Geography isn't overplayed at all. I moved to the SE, and have heard it first hand from the mouth of players down here.
• "beautiful campus" lol... nah. OSU will continue to get more 5 star guys. They got 7 this year. ND, zero. The can sell "you don't have to play school", and NFL draft record, despite their weather. The majority of their 5 star kids are not from warm weather places. A few from TX and other places, but they kill the SE, MW and NW when it comes to 5 star kids.
• ND stopped making exceptions after Holtz.

5 hours ago, Pregame said:

You’re all going so far afield and making this overly complicated. You know what attracts coaches? Money. 

If and when ND needs to replace Kelly, all they need to do is open the checkbook. 

they have all the money in the world. doesn't mean they are willing to spend it.

i just don't see them getting in that 8-9M range the top 5 are now getting.

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

18 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Really wasn't directing the explanation at @cali_domer, just in general for the board. I just wanted to differentiate the tags (50% can't even be kept), and the we had less attractions (lures). 

You can look at a lot of up and comers and envision they might have success here, but it's all projection. BK had an incredible record at Cinci, and has done well here. Just no ships. And there are no big school great power-coaches that will want to come to ND due to the limitations. So it's either luck out and pick the right up and comer, or not... 

18 hours ago, JTennant said:

I disagree with the last part. I feel like the current culture (AD, admissions, facilities etc) is one that would attract a big name hire if Brian Kelly steps away.

Unlike 2003-04 ish whenever they tried to get Urban Meyer(although he was an up an comer) and had him seriously contemplating it but ultimately went to Florida as he knew he could win right away. My point was that then ND probably had zero shot of getting a home-run hire and now I think they have a much better chance. It's a program that's turn-key basically.

 

My biggest hope is for Saban to come to the conclusion that he has nothing left to prove at Alabama, best ever.  Let's see what I can do when the stakes are a little harder.  That is our only real option as far as a "lateral move".

[ndfanatic78 285]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

What of the current top coaches would come?

Urbs had a connection, and still chose somewhere else. Facilities had zero to do with it. Admin is actually tougher on academic standards now than then. And a lot of sentiment within the cake eaters is that ND already places too much focus on football.

lol. I don't know the full audience here yet.. 

• I don't think ND has bagmen. Perhaps in the Holtz days, but not now.
• Geography isn't overplayed at all. I moved to the SE, and have heard it first hand from the mouth of players down here.
• "beautiful campus" lol... nah. OSU will continue to get more 5 star guys. They got 7 this year. ND, zero. The can sell "you don't have to play school", and NFL draft record, despite their weather. The majority of their 5 star kids are not from warm weather places. A few from TX and other places, but they kill the SE, MW and NW when it comes to 5 star kids.
• ND stopped making exceptions after Holtz.

they have all the money in the world. doesn't mean they are willing to spend it.

i just don't see them getting in that 8-9M range the top 5 are now getting.

I’m glad you talked to some recruits and they said weather matters. It’s still not a hinderance to ND winning another championship. There will always be some that don’t want to come for whatever reason, but there are plenty that don’t care about weather.

Guess what I have talked to recruits also and ND definitely has bag men. Shit there are FCS schools that have bag men.

Last OSU gets the five stars because they want to win championships. They have nothing over ND and Columbus is a shit hole. Been there numerous times and the weather sucks (grew up in Ohio). Only difference is the admins dedication to winning championships. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by ndfanatic78

[ELDER06 248]

You need to step down… off a cliff. 

[ELDER06 248]

1 hour ago, ndfanatic78 said:

I’m glad you talked to some recruits and they said weather matters. It’s still not a hinderance to ND winning another championship. There will always be some that don’t want to come for whatever reason, but there are plenty that don’t care about weather.

Guess what I have talked to recruits also and ND definitely has bag men. Shit there are FCS schools that have bag men.

Last OSU gets the five stars because they want to win championships. They have nothing over ND and Columbus is a shit hole. Been there numerous times and the weather sucks (grew up in Ohio). Only difference is the admins dedication to winning championships. 

No, it’s bc ND has academic requirements. It’s not hard to see. If you want ND to abandon that, they lose their cache.

[ELDER06 248]

1 hour ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

My biggest hope is for Saban to come to the conclusion that he has nothing left to prove at Alabama, best ever.  Let's see what I can do when the stakes are a little harder.  That is our only real option as far as a "lateral move".

So, you admit there’s no better viable option than Kelly. 
 

And I get Kelly needs to step up, but give him credit for what he’s built. 15 yrs ago where he has the program at seemed impossible. 

[NYGoldenDomer 2,046]

2 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

So, you admit there’s no better viable option than Kelly. 
 

And I get Kelly needs to step up, but give him credit for what he’s built. 15 yrs ago where he has the program at seemed impossible. 

I never said there was a better realistic option so I am not sure why you're coming at me like that.  I am of the group that mostly can't stand him but gives him credit for what he has done.  But he is what he is. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by NYGoldenDomer

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

3 hours ago, NYGoldenDomer said:

My biggest hope is for Saban to come to the conclusion that he has nothing left to prove at Alabama, best ever.  Let's see what I can do when the stakes are a little harder.  That is our only real option as far as a "lateral move".

lol, not gonna happen. 

Would love it if it did, but he's god in Bama, will never be fired, and doesn't need to prove anything. He'll retire

3 hours ago, ndfanatic78 said:

I’m glad you talked to some recruits and they said weather matters. It’s still not a hinderance to ND winning another championship. There will always be some that don’t want to come for whatever reason, but there are plenty that don’t care about weather.

Guess what I have talked to recruits also and ND definitely has bag men. Shit there are FCS schools that have bag men.

Last OSU gets the five stars because they want to win championships. They have nothing over ND and Columbus is a shit hole. Been there numerous times and the weather sucks (grew up in Ohio). Only difference is the admins dedication to winning championships. 

I have several friends with kids that are or were in D1 programs the last 10 years. It's not just weather. Weather is only one of the things. Like I said, only 50% of the top 100 are even eligible to get into ND. You pick from half going in. Then you have to overcome distance, weather, playing school, etc.

Like I said, OSU isn't pulling in a bunch of 5 star warm weather SE or SW kids every year. Most of their 5 stars are from cold weather states except a few from TX and occasional SEC state.

Sorry, not buying the bag man thing. Maybe some standalone boosters taking matters into their own hands, but nothing like you see at the football factories where the institution is in cahoots with the bagmen. 

[ELDER06 248]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

lol, not gonna happen. 

Would love it if it did, but he's god in Bama, will never be fired, and doesn't need to prove anything. He'll retire

I have several friends with kids that are or were in D1 programs the last 10 years. It's not just weather. Weather is only one of the things. Like I said, only 50% of the top 100 are even eligible to get into ND. You pick from half going in. Then you have to overcome distance, weather, playing school, etc.

Like I said, OSU isn't pulling in a bunch of 5 star warm weather SE or SW kids every year. Most of their 5 stars are from cold weather states except a few from TX and occasional SEC state.

Sorry, not buying the bag man thing. Maybe some standalone boosters taking matters into their own hands, but nothing like you see at the football factories where the institution is in cahoots with the bagmen. 

There’s no more bag men with NIL. 

[OKelleyIrish 1,198]

8 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

There’s no more bag men with NIL. 

I'm sure bag men are still fashionable in the SEC, where parents still want their cut lol.. or house. or job.. .

[ELDER06 248]

1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I'm sure bag men are still fashionable in the SEC, where parents still want their cut lol.. or house. or job.. .

I’m sure there’s legal ways around it. Regardless, the advantage of paying players under the table no longer exists. That’s good for ND. 

[irishwavend 583]

ND’s academic requirements aren’t that much higher than other schools.  I worked in Sports Info and saw the scores.  We just don’t allow complete retards.  That’s not eliminating too many.  The academic issue is an excuse thrown out to those who don’t know/don’t understand who will latch on and run with it.  We’ve let in folks with 18 ACTs…. That’s horrendous when the rest of the ND population is averaging a 33-34 out of 36.

[ELDER06 248]

6 hours ago, irishwavend said:

ND’s academic requirements aren’t that much higher than other schools.  I worked in Sports Info and saw the scores.  We just don’t allow complete retards.  That’s not eliminating too many.  The academic issue is an excuse thrown out to those who don’t know/don’t understand who will latch on and run with it.  We’ve let in folks with 18 ACTs…. That’s horrendous when the rest of the ND population is averaging a 33-34 out of 36.

Eliminating half the top 100 is a gigantic deal. Also, it’s not an easy sell to players that once you get to campus, you’ve actually got to do the work. 
 

I’m aware they have resources and advantages regular students do not, but even with that, it’s still not appealing to a lot of players who only care about getting prepared for the NFL. 
 

 

[ELDER06 248]

And this is where I get frustrated, fans don’t seem to understand the seismic shift that’s occurred the last 20 yrs in favor of the SEC. There’s a reason why OSU is the only non southern school to win a title since 2001. Standards are far lower and $ is way up. 

[coltssb 1,044]

47 minutes ago, ELDER06 said:

And this is where I get frustrated, fans don’t seem to understand the seismic shift that’s occurred the last 20 yrs in favor of the SEC. There’s a reason why OSU is the only non southern school to win a title since 2001. Standards are far lower and $ is way up. 

His name is Nick Saban and that is why the SEC is where they are. He has 7 Natty’s and can go as far as saying he helped LSU get there other two.  Because prior to LSU’s 03’ championship, they haven’t won since 58!  Saban made the SEC relevant again. He made that conference elite by winning. He made that conference money by winning. I can safely say that based on the fact that they always had kids who could play and went to the SEC. But the SEC never won as much as they did until Saban. But it’s all going to change like every thing that revolves does, Saban will retire, NIL’s will balance the cheating in the south and balance will restore.  Concussions and safety along with kids getting smarter will not just want to go play football but actually have a life outside of football. Ok, the last one is just my opinion. But my point stands. The SEC will not continue this glorious run after Saban retires. 

[Rocketsan 779]

Anyone else roll their eyes when NBC treats us to some of his locker room pep talk snippets? Snooze fest…

The dude needs to watch one of these:

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1293141-the-best-speeches-in-sports-movie-history.amp.html

 

[Mike 699]

1 hour ago, Rocketsan said:

Anyone else roll their eyes when NBC treats us to some of his locker room pep talk snippets? Snooze fest…

The dude needs to watch one of these:

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1293141-the-best-speeches-in-sports-movie-history.amp.html