Debate: Atheist vs Christian

[DTCBND03 0]

if you want to be a christian fine... but don't assume everybody likes seeing christian symbols on public property.

 

I assume you complain every year you get CHRISTmas off as a federal holiday too.

[nickman54 0]

I assume you complain every year you get CHRISTmas off as a federal holiday too.

 

He's a civil engineer guys, he has already sold his soul to the devil! Lol

[ND3 0]

Why? If you are an atheist who cares what people wear or display? This is what I don't understand. I have to see USC stickers on the back of cars all day but I don't lose my s**t and run them off the road.

 

If a soldier wants to be buried under a cross how does that hurt you? How does seeing a cross at a courthouse hurt you? Most of these monuments don't come out of your pocket, they are generally privately funded.

 

If someone loses a loved one and puts a cross on the roadside, what does that do to you?

 

If a group of people lose their loved ones and want to erect a memorial where it happened and they elect to have a cross or a Bible what difference does it make to you?

 

This is what I don't understand. If we are all ignorant savages, what difference does it make if we have crosses, bibles, etc... displayed in public? How does it harm the atheist to see a symbol of someone else's faith? I don't go Richter when I see a story about the Cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or start gnashing my teeth when another religion wants to put up their symbols of devotion to whoever they worship, I just appreciate the fact that (for now) we live in a country founded on the idea of religious freedom.

 

I served from 1995 to 2003 in the US Army to protect those freedoms. My father, grandfather and both uncles served as well.

 

So explain to me how it is offensive to you, who believes in no religion, to see a symbol of someone else's faith? Do you get rankled by the Easter Bunny and assault store Santas as well?

 

This guy just likes to stir the pot on religious issues without offering anything constructive to the conversation.

 

I, and most other atheists, don't really care about Christian symbols, as long as nobody is standing in the way of allowing equal rights for other religions, but this is so often not the case. For example- just yesterday, a relative of mine posted an article on Facebook (which I can't find now, he must have deleted it) about "a town in Alabama has BANNED Islam, will the rest of America follow suit?"

 

Obviously the article is not true and is redneck clickbait, but it saddens me that there are Christians who believe so profoundly that freedom of religion need only apply to them.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

https://www.au.org/media/press-releases/florida-officials-agree-to-permit-display-by-satanic-temple-at-state-capitol

 

 

Is this what you all want??? Eddie????

I don't get bothered by any mythical displays. Jesus , Easter bunny, Santa. etc... I just don't think a public building should display any of it.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Tenacious_ND

[Tenacious_ND 0]

I assume you complain every year you get CHRISTmas off as a federal holiday too.

 

Again Christmas is the Christian version of Yule, Juul, saturnalia. Etc. which is exactly why early Christians in America did not celebrate Christmas at all. I hope you don't think Jesus is the reason for the season?!? I love winter solstice. It's a great time of year for everyone.

[EddieAngel 508]

https://www.au.org/media/press-releases/florida-officials-agree-to-permit-display-by-satanic-temple-at-state-capitol

 

 

Is this what you all want??? Eddie????

I don't get bothered by any mythical displays. Jesus , Easter bunny, Santa. etc... I just don't think a public building should display any of it.

 

Bah, that is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the plans to erect a Satanic monument in the OK?

 

http://www.metalinjection.net/satanism/satanists-put-oklahoma-statue-on-hold-after-christian-statue-destroyed

 

Or the black mass open to the public?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/22/dozens-attend-satanic-black-mass-in-oklahoma-city-hundreds-protest-outside/

 

Or the Mosque at ground zero?

 

Christianity is not the worship of symbols, Christ does not live in a a cross, a crucifix, a Church or anywhere else. I could care less what people put up, I just get more than a little tired of people crybabying that seeing a Nativity scene hurts their feelings because they don't believe in Christ and they get sad at this time of year and blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Plenty of times in the day I have to turn my head just to watch TV, lots of offensive crap on there. I just realize it is the price I pay for living in a broken world.

[EddieAngel 508]

Again Christmas is the Christian version of Yule, Juul, saturnalia. Etc. which is exactly why early Christians in America did not celebrate Christmas at all. I hope you don't think Jesus is the reason for the season?!? I love winter solstice. It's a great time of year for everyone.

 

That is ignorant. It is true that we don't know the actual date of Jesus's birth and it is celebrated at this time of the year because of the coincidence with the pagan holiday. But it is foolish to simplify it as such.

 

Christ is the reason for the season and many of the traditions people enjoy are Christian traditions they have adopted.

 

For example:

 

Candy Canes

Christmas Trees

Santa Clause

Stockings

Gift Giving

 

Yeah, I know people want to talk about the Christmas Tree and the sacrifice to Odin and whatnot, but it was St. Boniface who adopted this tradition to replace the pagan tradition with a Christ honoring tradition.

 

Santa Clause comes from St. Nicholas of Myra. He started the tradition of leaving gifts in people's shoes, which evolved in to much more gift giving and stockings.

 

Also, as the Nativity story tells us, the three wisemen (magi) gave the baby Christ gifts, which we commemorate at Christmas time. But for us Christians the birth of Christ is the reason we celebrate the season.

 

Whatever you do for the next month is your business, go live in a cave and eat canned spam or whatever you want, but in my family we celebrate the story of the birth of Christ this month and it culminates for us at Christmas with the celebration of the birth of Christ. Do what you want with your month.

 

Also, if you are interested in knowing the Christian roots or the reason that Christians celebrate around the same time that pagans celebrate(d) their traditions, PM me and I would be happy to share with you.

 

Merry Christmas.

[nickman54 0]

Why do we have to do this every year? It makes me wanna puke.

[Pregame 291]

Given that Jesus was born during a Roman census, it's likely he was born in the summer or early fall.

 

Also, the Church adopted many pagan holidays and traditions which made it easier for converts to assimilate to their new religion.

 

Does this change anything about Christmas or any other religious holiday? No. The spiritual significance behind the holiday/tradition/artifact SHOULD trump the historical inconsistencies.

 

My stance is always to just enjoy the season and time I get to spend with friends, family, etc.

[Pregame 291]

One thing that always gets to me is when misinformed atheists/Christians/whomever use wrong information to make their point. For example, many Catholics themselves don't even understand that the Catholic Church has always maintained that the Bible is a spiritual guide and not a historical text.

 

Additionally, I find it very hard to be a practicing Catholic when many church leaders and hardcore Catholics have used "religion" to subvert the rights and freedoms of people they don't agree with. Considering Jesus associated closely with those on the outskirts of society, it's pretty hypocritical.

 

Despite the occasional frustration, I am grateful for and proud of my catholic education and upbringing. It brought me into contact with a lot of great friends, teachers and mentors.

 

TL;DR I'm a catholic leaning agnostic.

[Tenacious_ND 0]

Why do we have to do this every year? It makes me wanna puke.

 

Because I'm an antagonistic, angry, hateful, unhappy atheist/agnostic(because un/non believers can't be happy) who goes out of his way to bring other people down because of their beliefs. oh wait I didn't start this thread.

 

I'm not a Civil Engineer. I don't have a 4 year degree in engineering. I'm considered a Civil Cad Designer. I've got over 20 years experience and thought about sitting for the PE but I've got better things to do with my time. So technically I haven't sold my soul!

[Tenacious_ND 0]

One thing that always gets to me is when misinformed atheists/Christians/whomever use wrong information to make their point. For example, many Catholics themselves don't even understand that the Catholic Church has always maintained that the Bible is a spiritual guide and not a historical text.

 

Additionally, I find it very hard to be a practicing Catholic when many church leaders and hardcore Catholics have used "religion" to subvert the rights and freedoms of people they don't agree with. Considering Jesus associated closely with those on the outskirts of society, it's pretty hypocritical.

 

 

TL;DR I'm a catholic leaning agnostic.

 

Its pretty amazing that a Pope is finally speaking out about these issues. Pope Francis is the best thing to happen to the Catholic church.

[nickman54 0]

Because I'm an antagonistic, angry, hateful, unhappy atheist/agnostic(because un/non believers can't be happy) who goes out of his way to bring other people down because of their beliefs. oh wait I didn't start this thread.

 

I'm not a Civil Engineer. I don't have a 4 year degree in engineering. I'm considered a Civil Cad Designer. I've got over 20 years experience and thought about sitting for the PE but I've got better things to do with my time. So technically I haven't sold my soul!

 

Civil Cad Designer is still the the debils work. How many road projects have you been involved in?

[Tenacious_ND 0]

Civil Cad Designer is still the the debils work. How many road projects have you been involved in?

 

way too many. I've done a lot more subdivisions though.

[EddieAngel 508]

One thing that always gets to me is when misinformed atheists/Christians/whomever use wrong information to make their point. For example, many Catholics themselves don't even understand that the Catholic Church has always maintained that the Bible is a spiritual guide and not a historical text.

 

Additionally, I find it very hard to be a practicing Catholic when many church leaders and hardcore Catholics have used "religion" to subvert the rights and freedoms of people they don't agree with. Considering Jesus associated closely with those on the outskirts of society, it's pretty hypocritical.

 

Despite the occasional frustration, I am grateful for and proud of my catholic education and upbringing. It brought me into contact with a lot of great friends, teachers and mentors.

 

TL;DR I'm a catholic leaning agnostic.

 

The Church in general is not in the habit of addressing issues outside of the Bible. The job of the Church (At least non-Catholic) is to make believers. To learn the historical significance of symbols one has to go out and find out on your own. I have never been to Catholic church, but I know that at my Church Christmas time is the time when the Nativity story is told and we celebrate the gift of Christ, the services during the month of December tend to be what you would call "seeker" services, since most non-believers are apt to come during Easter and Christmas.

 

Every believer is entitled to interpret and believe and celebrate the way they are inspired to do so. My kids believe in Santa Claus and I encourage that and go along with it. I like it. They know what Christmas is about, why we celebrate, but they also enjoy getting presents from Santa. They also get baskets from the Easter bunny, though they know that we celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus at Easter, and they get money from the tooth fairy.

 

These things can coexist in my world. No one needs to be butthurt because they believe or don't believe. I think that internet aside we should all try to play nice. We might not all agree about where we came from or where we are going but we have all embraced the hell on earth that is being an ND football fan.

[NDhoosier 1,229]

One thing that always gets to me is when misinformed atheists/Christians/whomever use wrong information to make their point. For example, many Catholics themselves don't even understand that the Catholic Church has always maintained that the Bible is a spiritual guide and not a historical text.

 

I agree with this, however, I think the new Pope is forcing those Catholics to rethink things. With all of the recent discussions and speeches he has made, it is clear that Catholics should be much more accepting of different opinions. When the Pope comes out and says as long as you are a good person, you go to heaven, regardless of your religion or sexual preference, it should be noted.

 

Additionally, I find it very hard to be a practicing Catholic when many church leaders and hardcore Catholics have used "religion" to subvert the rights and freedoms of people they don't agree with. Considering Jesus associated closely with those on the outskirts of society, it's pretty hypocritical.

 

What do you mean? Please dont say the Crusades. That was hundreds of years ago and I dont appreciate being still identified with people I have never even met or have been dead for hundreds of years. If you go by that logic, I guess all white people in America are racist...

 

With an organization as big as the Catholic church, you will have a few bad apples, but that should not define the organization.

[Pregame 291]

What do you mean? Please dont say the Crusades. That was hundreds of years ago and I dont appreciate being still identified with people I have never even met or have been dead for hundreds of years. If you go by that logic, I guess all white people in America are racist...

 

With an organization as big as the Catholic church, you will have a few bad apples, but that should not define the organization.

Not the crusades, those were almost strictly a secular war waged to gain power politically and economically in the region under the guise of allowing Christians access to the Holy Land. Also, this was during a time that the Holy Roman Empire was more an empire than it was a religious institution.

 

I'm more speaking on the negative view on gay people and exclusion of women from holding positions of importance within the leadership hierarchy. I will say the new Pope has been awesome and has done a lot in his tenure to make the church a more inclusive place, closer to what I view as the true purpose of the Church.

 

Also, the shielding of child molesters and the general way in which the child molesting scandal was handled was out and out wrong, in my opinion. Yes, there were a VERY small percentage of priests involved but it seemed that many dioceses were more concerned with damage control than they were fixing the problem.

 

Finally, despite the Pope's more inclusive attitude, that has not trickled down to many of the dioceses across the country. Too often I think local leadership are stodgy, set in their ways hardcore conservative individuals and that's fine for a lot of people but it doesn't jibe with me personally. Too many "good Catholic" parishioners are some of the more judgmental, backwards people I've come across.

 

I guess my issue is rarely with the idea of Catholicism and moreso the people associating with it.

[NDhoosier 1,229]

Not the crusades, those were almost strictly a secular war waged to gain power politically and economically in the region under the guise of allowing Christians access to the Holy Land. Also, this was during a time that the Holy Roman Empire was more an empire than it was a religious institution.

 

I'm more speaking on the negative view on gay people and exclusion of women from holding positions of importance within the leadership hierarchy. I will say the new Pope has been awesome and has done a lot in his tenure to make the church a more inclusive place, closer to what I view as the true purpose of the Church.

 

Also, the shielding of child molesters and the general way in which the child molesting scandal was handled was out and out wrong, in my opinion. Yes, there were a VERY small percentage of priests involved but it seemed that many dioceses were more concerned with damage control than they were fixing the problem.

 

Finally, despite the Pope's more inclusive attitude, that has not trickled down to many of the dioceses across the country. Too often I think local leadership are stodgy, set in their ways hardcore conservative individuals and that's fine for a lot of people but it doesn't jibe with me personally. Too many "good Catholic" parishioners are some of the more judgmental, backwards people I've come across.

 

I guess my issue is rarely with the idea of Catholicism and moreso the people associating with it.

 

I wont really argue with that. There are those stuck up individuals, there are definitely those who are stuck in their ways. Not much I can really say to be honest. I think if the Church fixed that, the younger population would be more apt to attending church and being a part of it. However, and I am sure you are aware, is that all denominations and even different religions have people like that.

 

Something that still bothers me today is that more Protestants than I realized do not know the definition of Christianity and believe Catholicism is not a part of Christianity. I have had conversations before with people where I will tell them I am Catholic and they respond by saying, "I thought you were a Christian." Facepalm moment

[DTCBND03 0]

Here's a good laugh. Former movie star Andrew Keegan starts new religion called Full Circle. I'm pretty sure it should be called Full Up on LSD:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/andrew-keegan-new-religion/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

Full Circle is described as "advanced spiritualism."

"Synchronicity. Time. That's what it's all about," Keegan told Vice. "Whatever, the past, some other time. It's a circle; in the center is now. That's what it's about."

The former teen heartthrob said his spiritual journey began after he and some friends were attacked on Venice Beach in 2011. The incident happened around the same time as the earthquake and tsunami in Japan, and Keegan said he began to see an odd series of occurrences that led him to start Full Circle.

"I had a moment where I was looking at a streetlamp, and it exploded," he said. "That was a weird coincidence. At a ceremony, a heart-shaped rose quartz crystal was on the altar, and synchronistically, this whole thing happened. It's a long story, but basically the crystal jumped off the altar and skipped on camera. That was weird."

It all prompted him to conclude that "the mission is to take the war out of our story, which is essentially peace but activated peace," he said.

His church, which started occupying its building in May, now has several members. Keegan says it's not a cult but a community.

"I very much speak what comes through (while) in the collective," he said. "We create a resonance of balance and equality of the crew."