FlyinIrish

ND beat USC with Tommy the Freshman who threw about 42 int's and then in 2013 we were handling them pretty well until Tommy the senior got hurt and we had to play Hendrix. USC may have had some bad luck with their QB's, but so has ND. This year was horrible, but overall, the gap has closed substantially.

I don't post very often, but this thread is embarrassing.

Wave, you're just as wrong and petulant as your precious neo-con tea party carpet baggers. Not only do I understand this situation better than you, I actually have to live with the results of poor political discourse on a daily basis. Unlike sand bagging whiners like yourself I have to deal with government ramifications every day of my life. I've been active duty military my entire adult life and govt is more than a talking point for my family. I've spent 5 lengthy deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan "living" govt policy while idiots like you sit around and do nothing but bitch. By the way, I have govt health care and it's great. As for your Chris Matthews BS, I don't listen to any talking heads, unlike yourself. People like you only seek affirmation instead of information. You're small minded and completely uninformed. As a steward of my govt I've spent many months studying our govt with a Fellowship at the Kennedy school at Harvard. Throughout my professional military education I've actually had the opportunity to work with and through our govt giving me what I'm sure is about a 1 million percent better understanding of it than you. I just get so sick of people spewing ignorance. Obama isn't perfect and neither are his politics, but if you can't see that Congress isn't responsible for this latest govt screw job, then you're to far gone for me to explain it to you.

Wrong Irish Convert. The president has dutifully submitted budgets every year. Maybe a week late, but that's typical, particularly when dealing with a hostile House like right now. Even moderate Republicans know that this is ridiculous. The speaker is a hostage in his own party. This shut down is nothing but a self-inflicted wound caused by the petulant tea party members. The president has submitted a reasonable budget to fund the law, now the house refuses to do it. That's on the house, not the president or the senate. Do yourself a favor and turn off Fox News. As for ND football, it would be a real shame if the Navy streak came to an end because of idiot politics. I have many friends who played football at USAFA and those guys work their butts off. It's a devastating turn of events when these young men can't be rewarded with a Gameday. It's a fraction of the overall picture, but it does matter. Especially since it's so pointless.

AND it's the Republican controlled Houses job to put forth a budget that is amenable to both parties. The House controls the money and the Senate makes the laws. I may not agree with the ACA, but it's passed the house and the senate and been deemed legal by the US Supreme Court. It's a law, plain and simple. It's the Congress job to fund it, regardless of their opinion. Their opinion should've been expressed in the lawmaking process, the Republicans failed in that regard. Now they're basically being sore losers. I'm Active Duty military and I can't stand this kind of crap. I don't always get my way, but when I'm given a lawful order, I follow it. This political grandstanding is an atrocious miscarriage of the American system of politics. Now I have civilian co workers who can't work. These are are decent people being held hostage by tea party idealogues who can't stand that this health care law actually passed. They use disinformation and scare tactics to confuse their constituents and they've disrupted all of our lives for their own political gain. I've spent my entire adult life defending our constitution, I've never been so ashamed of the people who are supposed to perpetuate our prosperity by embracing that piece paper instead of pissing on it because they don't like the laws that it has produced.

It's just a glorified practice. Relax.

Flying to the football...hitting hard. I'll take it.

I think it's a little pre-mature to say that Hendrix or Golson won't succeed at ND.

The facts about Tommy are irrefutable. He simply does not possess the skill set to run this offense in it's entirety. What he does have is great football acumen and a certain moxy that allows him to operate under pressure. His steady personality and knowledge allow him to manage games very well and his football intelligence allows him to operate a certain portion of the offense very well. The problem is that his skill set prevents him from making the team better athletically. It can't be stressed enough that very athletic defenses with a skilled back four will continue to sell out against the run and force Tommy to manage a passing game. Athletically gifted teams like USC know that he can't stretch the field with his arm so they can press receivers, shrink passing lanes and pin their ears back with a pass rush because he's not a threat to run. His lack of mobility completely turns off a substantial part of Kellys offense. He can win against mediocre defenses because our skill position players are talented and can "out athlete" a lot of teams...like Air Force. But when our guys get pressed, Tommy can't keep you humble with the deep ball and he can't run on you. Kelly already knows all of this, that's why Crist was the starter against USF and that's why Hendrix has started to play... at least that's my opinion. I like Tommy, but he'll never be the guy that gets the team over the hump with his athletic skills. Fast athletic defenses will continue to give us trouble until we can run the entire offense.

Holy crap man. Do you read? A poster completely compared Tommy to Montana and directly said that Tommy really reminds him of Joe. To say that Tommy clinched the game against USC is foolish. He threw 3 picks and lost a fumble. Going into the locker room after the game he even apologized to his teammates and thanked Diaco for saving his bacon. To say that Dayne couldn't have made those throws is baseless and not worth discussing. As for the last drive against Pitt, I absolutely give Tommy credit for that. He was great going 8 for 8 and threw some very nice passes. My point, which you totally missed, was that if he'd had a better game that drive wouldn't have been necessary. How may bad reads ending in INT's and sacks leading to a fumble will it take for people to admit that he's not that great and that he's gotten a much longer leash than Dayne ever did. Tommys record as a starter is great, but for me, I believe it's more because of the improved play of the defense, not the quarterback. But you're entitled to your own opinion, that is after all, what this board is about.

Tommy didn't do it against USC, Robert Hughes did. Tommy actually forced a bad situation by turning the ball over 4 times that night. He was forced to do it against an inferior Pitt defense that shut him down for 3 1/2 quarters. Not in a Bowl game against a good opponent like Joe did. Comparing Tommy to Joe Montana is ridiculous... the reasons for which are too many to enumerate. He's thrown 7 TD's and 6 INT's so far this season. Even Joe Montana would admit that's poor in a spread offense.

I don't feel like Dayne really had his shot. He beat Purdue. He played well against UM, but missed half of the game with a concussion. He played well against MSU, but the D gave up some big runs and we ultimately lost on a play that has gone down in CFB history as one of the great OT gambits. We lost to Stanford. Dayne played poorly against a Vic Fangio D that lost one game and then went on to a dominating victory in a BCS bowl. He beat Pitt. He beat BC. He beat WMU. He looked bad against Navy, but he was not helped out at all from a D that couldn't stop the triple option and made ND one dimensional as they played catch-up all day. He played one series against Tulsa and still gets credited with the loss, not exactly accurate. He looked pedestrian in one half against USF and loses the job. One half is not a shot.

I love optimism. But, I can't believe people are talking about blowing out Purdue when we just snuck by Pitt. I have some bad news for everyone... Pitt sucks big fat donkey nuts and we barely beat them. Sorry for the vulgar picture. Please, please, please don't overlook Purdue. They have a history of playing "the spoiler". With the inconsistency this offense has displayed this year, I wouldn't take any team for granted. I would love to sit back and enjoy a 50-7 blowout, but I certainly don't expect it.

If Jonas Gray scores on the first drive against USF, or even if that fumble isn't returned for a TD I firmly believe that ND is 4-0 and Crist is the starter. Of course, that's just my opinion. Crist had a bad half. Tommy has had several. He throws too many picks, he can't get sacked without fumbling. He was shut down by a Pitt pass defense that was ranked 119th having faced the likes of Buffalo and Maine. He doesn't have the proper skill set to run this offense to it's full potential. He is too slow to run the read option and he does not possess the arm strength to fit the ball into tight man coverage... that's why he's thrown so many INT's. The pick this weekend was a perfect example. Eifert was open, if Tommy puts more zip on the ball the defender never gets to it and Eifert has 6. He can't throw from hash to hash like Dayne and he can't run like Dayne. As for his 6-1 record, he's been bailed out by the defense. I won't bore you with the stats, just look at the defensive stats with Dayne as a starter and Tommy under center. You'll quickly realize that if we have Daynes numbers with the recent defensive numbers and we are crushing people. I like Tommy, but I can't believe that Dayne was pulled for one half of impunity while Tommy has consistently committed the same sins over and over again, yet he's given a pass because the D keeps bailing him out. As for his game winning drives, they should have never been necessary. At this point he's played as much as Dayne and has considerably worse individual statistics, he has just been given a better D. Mark my words, Tommy's lack of god given ability will cost ND a game soon. D coordinators have figured him out and they know his limitations. Unless something changes we will get seriously exploited by the athletic defenses of USC and (I can't believe I'm saying this) Stanford. Everyone loves his 6-1 record, which is completely valid. But I ask, at what point do you pull the plug. How many individually bad plays are necessary to determine that a mistake was made and Dayne deserves another chance. I pray that I'm dead wrong... but I don't think I am.

Thanks Cory. I started the thread specifically so that people would knock my point and remind me of things that I had either forgotten or hadn't thought of yet.