DTCBND03 0 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 How is there no thread on this yet? Awesome documentary. I binge watched it in 2 days and am watching it through again right now. Here's my theory so far after watching and reading the extra evidence not presented in the documentary: 1. Steven Avery is guilty BUT there are plenty of holes in the evidence. 2. Brendan Dassey was definitely falsely coerced into his confession. I think he knew what happened but was fed a lot of the info from the cops. I don't know if Dassey participated or not bc honestly he's so dumb and changes his story so many times I don't even think he knows what's going on. 3. The cops definitely planted some of the evidence (key, blood in the car, bullet in garage). The evidence was planted to make absolutely sure Avery was guilty given the $36M pending lawsuit. My guess is that Avery killed Teresa Halbach but not in the way that Dassey confessed. I mean there would be tons of blood everywhere in trailer and garage but there was none. But the phone calls, burning the cat, last one to see her, prior history, burning the body like the cat, etc. I mean there would have to be so much planning prior to the event for the cops to pin it on Avery. Unless the cops were watching Avery and then saw Halbach drive up and then snatched her and killed her themselves, burned her body and then scattered it over Avery's burn pit....I just don't see that happening though. Who knows...interesting to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianIrish 0 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just an unreal show. But yes, it seems a lot was left out. What I'm most interested to see is the shitshow that ensues if he actually gets a new trial from all of the public support. If you read some of the comments people post it is scary that THEY are allowed to live on their own, operate a vehicle, procreate, etc. I now start all phone conversations with "Hello? "Yeah." "Yeah?" Also, how hot was the reporter with the brown hair and glasses - the girl who always looked like she didn't buy what Kratz was selling????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 I now start all phone conversations with "Hello? "Yeah." "Yeah?" Also, how hot was the reporter with the brown hair and glasses - the girl who always looked like she didn't buy what Kratz was selling????? hahaha i literally said the same thing to my girlfriend about the Dassey phone calls. Yeah? yeah? And I hear ya about the reporter: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,286 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 First, I'd caution anyone from referring to this program as a documentary that is up on all the facts. It's primarily for entertainment value, and as such elements of the story can be stretched to fit the goal of making it entertaining for the viewer. I have not watched it, but it achieved its goal of being watched and generating income and buzz for the people who made it, which all things being equal is what they intended. I also was not on the jury and didn't have ALL the facts of the case brought before me, and this show falls short of providing that information as well as I understand it and experience has taught me with regard to media coverage. Cherry picking aspects of cases, while ignoring others, tries to diminish or omit altogether those other facts which may have been as equal and vital to the jury in their mission to get as close to a full picture of the truth they can get. Trying court cases in the eyes of public opinion strictly from the vantage point of the media who brings it to viewers sets a dangerous precedent. That's why the system of courts and laws protecting an individual's right to a fair trial is established. Some of the more recent examples of this include the incidents in Ferguson and Baltimore involving the police, among other examples the media plays out. While the system isn't perfect, and there have been examples of people who are convicted and found later to be exonerated, remember there are also examples where the person is certainly guilty and they aren't convicted. The process has to play out in the court room rather than in the streets, living rooms, and around the water coolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianIrish 0 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 First, I'd caution anyone from referring to this program as a documentary that is up on all the facts. It's primarily for entertainment value, and as such elements of the story can be stretched to fit the goal of making it entertaining for the viewer. I have not watched it, but it achieved its goal of being watched and generating income and buzz for the people who made it, which all things being equal is what they intended. I also was not on the jury and didn't have ALL the facts of the case brought before me, and this show falls short of providing that information as well as I understand it and experience has taught me with regard to media coverage. Cherry picking aspects of cases, while ignoring others, tries to diminish or omit altogether those other facts which may have been as equal and vital to the jury in their mission to get as close to a full picture of the truth they can get. Trying court cases in the eyes of public opinion strictly from the vantage point of the media who brings it to viewers sets a dangerous precedent. That's why the system of courts and laws protecting an individual's right to a fair trial is established. Some of the more recent examples of this include the incidents in Ferguson and Baltimore involving the police, among other examples the media plays out. While the system isn't perfect, and there have been examples of people who are convicted and found later to be exonerated, remember there are also examples where the person is certainly guilty and they aren't convicted. The process has to play out in the court room rather than in the streets, living rooms, and around the water coolers. Still, what a great show to waste a day watching! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,286 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Still, what a great show to waste a day watching! LOL, I can't really watch police or court shows anymore. You deal with the drama all day at work and just want to get into something else. About the only time I can really watch that stuff if it's a comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedsterX 652 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 LOL, I can't really watch police or court shows anymore. You deal with the drama all day at work and just want to get into something else. About the only time I can really watch that stuff if it's a comedy. Exactly! Everyone always asks, "You must watch a lot of Cops!" Ummm,,, No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 1,286 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Exactly! Everyone always asks, "You must watch a lot of Cops!" Ummm,,, No Is COPs still on anymore, lol? How about every time you are around others someone inevitably starts asking you about something police related or to share f'ed up stories or what have you. Sometimes I don't mind, but usually I have a difficult time recalling some of the crap I've seen or done over 17 years. There's just so much, and it runs the full spectrum of unbelievably funny to horrifically tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunSlinger 28 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Is COPs still on anymore, lol? How about every time you are around others someone inevitably starts asking you about something police related or to share f'ed up stories or what have you. Sometimes I don't mind, but usually I have a difficult time recalling some of the crap I've seen or done over 17 years. There's just so much, and it runs the full spectrum of unbelievably funny to horrifically tragic. Lol, I have the same problem. The ones I want to tell are usually not very appropriate to tell in most settings, mainly because only another cop would find the humor in it. I have a brother in LE and we talk shop all the time, the moment a family member asks or a friend it seems to become tedious to talk about at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketsan 768 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Same kind of craziness...watch the West Memphis Three documentaries - Paradise Lost 1-3 and Jackson's film West of Memphis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 74 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) How is there no thread on this yet? Awesome documentary. I binge watched it in 2 days and am watching it through again right now. Here's my theory so far after watching and reading the extra evidence not presented in the documentary: 1. Steven Avery is guilty BUT there are plenty of holes in the evidence. 2. Brendan Dassey was definitely falsely coerced into his confession. I think he knew what happened but was fed a lot of the info from the cops. I don't know if Dassey participated or not bc honestly he's so dumb and changes his story so many times I don't even think he knows what's going on. 3. The cops definitely planted some of the evidence (key, blood in the car, bullet in garage). The evidence was planted to make absolutely sure Avery was guilty given the $36M pending lawsuit. My guess is that Avery killed Teresa Halbach but not in the way that Dassey confessed. I mean there would be tons of blood everywhere in trailer and garage but there was none. But the phone calls, burning the cat, last one to see her, prior history, burning the body like the cat, etc. I mean there would have to be so much planning prior to the event for the cops to pin it on Avery. Unless the cops were watching Avery and then saw Halbach drive up and then snatched her and killed her themselves, burned her body and then scattered it over Avery's burn pit....I just don't see that happening though. Who knows...interesting to think about. Are you joking? I didn't see a single Avery family member that possessed the intelligence to formulate a coherent thought. Now one is cleaning up crime scenes like Dexter? She wasn't killed on that property and she wasn't killed by Avery. I can tell you from several years of interrogation experience that Colborn and Lenk lied literally every time they opened their mouths. They had tells when the questions were posed...tells while they considered their answers, and tells after they answered. Every time. Im so sure of it that I think both should be in prison for perjury and conspiracy. My mind is blown that no one in that department was investigated on the federal level and that polygraphs were not systemically administered. Also, why wasn't Cingular called upon to give the general location of Teresa's cell phone after she supposedly left the property? They can absolutely do that. I think if Cingular was asked to do so, we would know where Colburn found Teresa's body and RAV-4 when he called in the plate. Classic good ol boy network that plagues small towns. These guys weren't even good at framing someone and they still got away with it...infuriating. Edited January 8, 2016 by echo88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltssb 1,044 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Are you joking? I didn't see a single Avery family member that possessed the intelligence to formulate a coherent thought. Now one is cleaning up crime scenes like Dexter? She wasn't killed on that property and she wasn't killed by Avery. I can tell you from several years of interrogation experience that Colborn and Lenk lied literally every time they opened their mouths. They had tells when the questions were posed...tells while they considered their answers, and tells after they answered. Every time. Im so sure of it that I think both should be in prison for perjury and conspiracy. My mind is blown that no one in that department was investigated on the federal level and that polygraphs were not systemically administered. Also, why wasn't Cingular called upon to give the general location of Teresa's cell phone after she supposedly left the property? They can absolutely do that. I think if Cingular was asked to do so, we would know where Colburn found Teresa's body and RAV-4 when he called in the plate. Classic good ol boy network that plagues small towns. These guys weren't even good at framing someone and they still got away with it...infuriating. Although I'm only on the 4th episode, I can also tell that Lenk and Colburn were uneasy during the questioning. And I'm not an expert at interrogating. Their look on their faces looked like, oh shyte, we're in trouble. As for Avery, he is too damn honest. I killed a cat. I ran my aunt off the road. I pulled a gun on her. He blatantly stayed in prison because he did not commit that assault. As you said, he's not coherent enough to defend himself. The foul up of the assault case already has me directly looking at the police force as a cover up. I'm not on the murder case yet, but it looks like a witch hunt so far. Can't wait to get off work to finish this up to form an opinion on the murder case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Echo - I think Lenk and Colburn are guilty as hell of planting evidence. Especially Lenk. And I agree Avery was not smart enough or clean enough to cover up that murder the way it was described. Which is why I think she was killed somewhere else. Maybe somewhere else on property or off the property completely. And he does seem pretty honest/talkative when he talks but I think someone capable of killing someone like that could have the split personality (jekyll/hyde). I also wondered why doesn't he get really pissed at Dassey when he "confesses" to a made up crime? Someone points the finger at you in a really bad way and you don't say WTF and yell at his mother? Remember that phone call with her taped from jail he's really calm and says "Well I didn't do it" If Avery didn't do it, then you think Lenk/Colburn found her car (possibly with her body in it), mutilated it, burned it and then scattered it all over Avery's property while planting all that evidence? They had to of done that. Cause there's no way a separate killer would be able to do that without the Avery's noticing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltssb 1,044 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Also, 32 years for assault, and attempted murder on no evidence to link him there at all. Just crazy. I can only imagine that the murder case is going to be just as bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 74 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Echo - I think Lenk and Colburn are guilty as hell of planting evidence. Especially Lenk. And I agree Avery was not smart enough or clean enough to cover up that murder the way it was described. Which is why I think she was killed somewhere else. Maybe somewhere else on property or off the property completely. And he does seem pretty honest/talkative when he talks but I think someone capable of killing someone like that could have the split personality (jekyll/hyde). I also wondered why doesn't he get really pissed at Dassey when he "confesses" to a made up crime? Someone points the finger at you in a really bad way and you don't say WTF and yell at his mother? Remember that phone call with her taped from jail he's really calm and says "Well I didn't do it" If Avery didn't do it, then you think Lenk/Colburn found her car (possibly with her body in it), mutilated it, burned it and then scattered it all over Avery's property while planting all that evidence? They had to of done that. Cause there's no way a separate killer would be able to do that without the Avery's noticing. Yes, I do. 8 days is much more time than they'd need with the family banned illegally from their property....to do whatever they wanted. As for Avery, he wasn't emotional about anything. At any time. Even about getting locked up for 18 years. If that doesn't get a rise out of him, nothing will. It's obviously just part of his subdued personality. I also think he has mild retardation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltssb 1,044 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes, I do. 8 days is much more time than they'd need with the family banned illegally from their property....to do whatever they wanted. As for Avery, he wasn't emotional about anything. At any time. Even about getting locked up for 18 years. If that doesn't get a rise out of him, nothing will. It's obviously just part of his subdued personality. I also think he has mild retardation.[/quote I'd have to agree with you again. This could be my nephew. Low iq, goes along with everybody, half retarded... Doesn't get up or down for anything. Would also not hurt a fly. If framed for something wouldn't know how to defend himself. Avery comes across the exact same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Echo I agree with your points. Plenty of time and $36 million motive. I want to believe Avery is innocent. After watching the documentary I thought...He's 100% innocent. But taking a step back and thinking through the other evidence not shown in documentary and thinking how large the conspiracy/crime would have to be...from Manitowac to Calument to completely ignoring another killer. It just seems too large. I'd love to see an independent federal investigation and a trial outside of Maintowac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 74 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Echo I agree with your points. Plenty of time and $36 million motive. I want to believe Avery is innocent. After watching the documentary I thought...He's 100% innocent. But taking a step back and thinking through the other evidence not shown in documentary and thinking how large the conspiracy/crime would have to be...from Manitowac to Calument to completely ignoring another killer. It just seems too large. I'd love to see an independent federal investigation and a trial outside of Maintowac. I dont think it would take much at all. Lenk and Colborn, working under the corrupt police chief would be more than enough. They didn't hand the reigns over to Calumet until after the fact--and it was only to give the false impression that they wanted to look impartial. And even then the 2 same officers remained involved in the searches (voluntarily no less) and, shockingly, discovered new evidence with each visit. Visits that the legitimate and capable Calumet police must've missed after a dozen searches and several months. They didn't look for the real killer because their motive wasn't to catch a murderer--it was to erase the stains on their reputations and to eliminate the 30 million suit that definitely wouldve cost them their jobs. Only one department had access to the evidence room to steal the blood with a syringe. There was no reason to access that styrofoam sample box unless you were planting blood in a crime scene. Edited January 8, 2016 by echo88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianIrish 0 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes, I do. 8 days is much more time than they'd need with the family banned illegally from their property....to do whatever they wanted. As for Avery, he wasn't emotional about anything. At any time. Even about getting locked up for 18 years. If that doesn't get a rise out of him, nothing will. It's obviously just part of his subdued personality. I also think he has mild retardation.[/quote I'd have to agree with you again. This could be my nephew. Low iq, goes along with everybody, half retarded... Doesn't get up or down for anything. Would also not hurt a fly. If framed for something wouldn't know how to defend himself. Avery comes across the exact same way. I hope you're not referring to Avery. When he threw that cat in the fire, the truth is he covered it in oil first and then threw it alive into the bonfire (or bombfire to quote Dassey) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTCBND03 0 Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 I hope you're not referring to Avery. When he threw that cat in the fire, the truth is he covered it in oil first and then threw it alive into the bonfire (or bombfire to quote Dassey) Animal cruelty is a big time correlation to other crimes like rape, murder, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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