It Is Over Romney Ruined His Campaign

[Jim2Dokes 3]

Jim, very good to see your points supported by evidence. We can now have an actual discussion.

 

You are falling vicitm to a major fallacy of the contraception/prophylactic issue. How does the pill (the most effective contraception method) help in any way with the prevention of STD's such as AIDS? Be careful not to tie these two issues together b/c they are not the same. While both are a function of lowered perception of risk from sexual activity the effect on abortion rates and STD spread is not the same.

 

The point is that the consequences (or expected consequences) of (irresponsible) sex have been lessened in terms of unwanted children. But when those expectations are not met, those same people want abortion on demand. Understanding how to minimize the consequences of sexual activity (education and contraception) just covers over the fundamental point that people now don't respect the potential (but now unexpected) consequences of sexual activity, and turn to the easy out (abortion).

 

Here are the historical abortion rates: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html

 

Note the explosion of the abortion rate with the addition of the pill. People did not expect those pregnancies and wanted a way to get the outcome they expected. This massive increase in the abortion rate is dramatically larger than the recent down trend, which is due to improve use of contraception (next paragraph).

 

The recent down trend in the abortion rate is exactly a function of education, people are not more effectively prevent pregnancy. But the baseline problem remains, that abortion (as practiced in america) is a predominantly economic, 'easy out', decision. Made when the outcome of sexual activity does not match up with the expected outcome.

 

Here are your 'reason for abortion' statistics:

 

 

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

 

Recent STD increases are a function of lowered risk appreciation, stemming from effective treatments less than prophylaxis.

 

STD Rates and Historicals: http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/trends.htm

 

Regarding divorces, clearly there was a major societal shift where women with education realized they did not have to stay in unhappy marriages due to the economics. Accordingly, divorce rates spiked before the selection process for mates caught up to the new goals of marriage.

 

But regarding the current marriage statistics, Oklahoma has a point about cohabitation skewing those numbers. I remember an article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/united-states-divorce-rat_n_935938.html) where they site a U. of Mich. study making his point.

 

1. I know that birth control does not prevent STDs I was talking about condoms when making that point.

 

2. "Before the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, data on abortion in the United States were scarce. In 1955, experts had estimated, on the basis of qualitative assumptions, that 200,000-1,200,000 illegal abortions were performed each year.1 Despite its wide range, this estimate remained the most reliable indicator of the magnitude of induced abortion for many years. In 1967, researchers confirmed this estimate by extrapolating data from a randomized-response survey conducted in North Carolina: They concluded that a total of 800,000 induced (mostly illegal) abortions were performed nationally each year.2

 

At about this time, the availability of legally induced abortion in the United States gradually increased, starting in Mississippi in 1966 and then in Colorado the following year. The controversy that these developments would create spurred public health leaders to obtain accurate and complete information on the number and demographic characteristics of women obtaining abortions, as well as on the effects that legalization of abortion would have on morbidity and mortality.3 Three organizations—the Population Council, The Alan Guttmacher Institute and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)—collaborated to gather data by conducting what became known as abortion surveillance. Their combined effort was instrumental in the evaluation of the public health impact of the legalization of abortion."

 

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3502503.html

 

3. Right, education is the key prevention education.

 

4. I agree with you. There is no doubt that many take advantage of the ability to receive an abortion. I hate it just as much as you do, but I look at it in a different lens I am sure.

- Its not my choice, I am not a women. Who am I to tell someone they can not do something I do not know their circumstances.

- There are proven ways as a lot of European countries have shown us to prevent abortions. These ways do not fall in line with making it illegal, abstinence, or any other conservative failures.

-. If my sister for example wants to have an abortion, then she should have consultation and see a professional. I do not want her to go to back-alley Bob and end up dying or trying it herself (sse Revolutionary Road). Again the debate is means and how to prevent. I want to eliminate them, its just Oklahoma's means and how to prevent are skewed and have been proven to be misguided.

 

5. I am not too invested in the divorce issue, I could care less and think it is an exhausting process. I am waiting until I am 33 to get married myself. The point is that more people are being smart about trying to be happy. In the good ol' days it was either be miserable or get shunned by the community for having a divorce or rushed into marriage because of religion or social cues.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Jim2Dokes

[Jersey Irish 205]

The problem is we have dumb and dumber running the country.

God forbid if they are re-elected

[Rocknes Shadow 0]

put a term limit on Congressmen and things will start changing for the better.

 

We've had term limits in Michigan for years. Complete disaster. Worse than before and idiots spend and know they won't be there in 6 years - so who cares. Dems- Reps - doesn't matter.

 

Would you want terms limits in business? Nope. Then why would it work in Congress?

 

There are term limits - you must be re-elected - that's a perfoprmance appraisal.