An Experienced Dayne Crist...

[Pregame 291]

The most important stat of the pitt game was 0 interceptions. Yeah he made and is going to make throws were you say to yourself what that f**k was that? But the key to being a accurate qb is anticipation. That will come with time. Jimmy was accurate because he could see what was about to happen, and that came with time. The overthrow to Kyle was something that just is going to happen from time to time. I see pro qbs miss on throws all the time. As long as he can keep the int's down then he will be fine. Decision making is way more important than accuracy. That's what I'm looking for in Dayne, can he cut down on the bad reads and throws.

Exactly, he hasn't been forcing the ball as much (michigan-throw to floyd). If he kept the INTs down the rest of the year, I think we could all agree you couldnt ask for much more.

[ErickJD08 0]

Exactly, he hasn't been forcing the ball as much (michigan-throw to floyd). If he kept the INTs down the rest of the year, I think we could all agree you couldnt ask for much more.

 

Crist has 4 INTs. So does Luck, Denard, and Cousins. While thinking about this, think about the teams each team has faced. Taking all the factors into account, I think asking for much more would be a bit unrealistic.

[Ray Herring 0]

Crist has completely changed his throwing motion that he's had his whole career even up to the spring game. Gone is the sidewards motion that no one tried to correct during his time behind Clausen.

 

That has to be the source of his accuracy troubles.

[tj4ndirish 0]

[quote=sg4nd;3060844. Overthrow of Rudolph. I happened to be watching Rudolph on this play and the action from the receiver cutting inside and Rudolph outside left Rudy WIDE OPEN. He probably would not have scored but would have been a huge gainer.

 

If you are talking about the Pitt game, Crist threw a perfect ball to Rudy that over shot him by 5 yards or so...............however, if you go back and look at that play again, he was lame. Rudy had a clear limp on that play. A healthy Rudy would have caught that ball and very likely would have scored.

 

I'm not flaming you or anything, just pointing out what I saw on that play. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

[Frankus 197]

Besides his problems with accuracy, Crist has got to learn to feel pressure, buy time and make plays on the run after eluding pressure.

 

He's got a long way to go.

 

Check out Tony Pike eluding pressure, buying time and making plays.

 

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Check out Colt McCoy

 

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[Guest MittenDomer8]

Perfect throws don't land 10 yards past the receiver trying to catch them. Is Rudolph hurt? Yes. Did Crist know that Rudolph wasn't 100%? Yes. Did Rudolph pull up lame mid route? No, consistent speed the whole route. So, was the throw "perfect?" No.

 

In what world does our QB get credited with a perfect throw that lands 10 yds past the receiver? It's not like the ball hit Rudolph in the numbers (ahem...Ragone) or he simply fell down. Does he also get credited with a perfect throw to Floyd in the endzone, I mean it really is Floyd's fault for not being 7'3". It's ok to have a critical statement regarding Notre Dame and her players, especially when Dayne has been overthrowing guys all year.

__________________

 

Timing is way off because of his injury. In most cases the QB usually throws to a spot on the field not the reciever. timing off=incompletion.

[tj4ndirish 0]

Got to love a hi-lite real that shows a QB throwing interceptions and incomplete passes.......:rofl: :rofl:

[IrishCalves 0]

We've been spoiled man. We expect EVERY throw to be made by Dayne, in part because of the guy before him. I haven't seen consistent accuracy like Clausen's from any QB at the college level in a LONG time. He's a smidge undersized, and may not pan out in the pros (in part because his line in Carolina may get him shell shocked and killed a la David Carr), but Clausen was a fantastic thrower.

 

I'm not blind to some of his mistakes. Earlier in the season, he leaned on Rudolph too heavily, and missed Floyd quite a bit on 3rd downs or near the red zone, struggling with his reads and progressions. He has a habit of having the ball swatted out of his hands in the pocket. He doesn't have the accuracy to place the ball where receivers want it every time. I'm not saying he's perfect. But the kid has done pretty darn good for someone who has a bubble gum knee, a new playbook, a handful of snaps in college, and was a half go during the spring. Considering the impetus on running in this system, he's doing about as good as can be expected.

 

Say we double his #s to project a full season's work (which will probably be even better considering Western Michigan, Army, and, hopefully Navy). 22 TDs, 8 INTs, 3200 yards, and 59% completion percentage. I take that in a heartbeat. Its waaaay too easy, and too overplayed, to put this on the quarterback. If anything, the bigger issue this year with this offense has been the lack of an established #2 behind Allen, but people don't think to critique what we aren't seeing on the field versus what we are.

 

Like I said, for all of last season, we worried about everything but Clausen. His play was so good and consistent that it wasn't even a concern heading into a week, and we came to expect precision execution on his part. Yes, there is a drop off, but he set an unrealistic bar of expectations for a lot of fans.

 

And seriously, if we're griping about Crist, imagine how we'd feel if he didn't regain vision out of his eye, and we were rocking Tommy Rees and Nate Montana. I know none of us are calling for his head or are seriously upset with his play, but there are other positions that have let the team down more than his play. 2 of our 3 losses, he gives the defense a lead before the last possession of the game. Not much more you can ask for.

Edited October 12, 2010 by IrishCalves

[da coach 0]

... is all that is holding ND back right now. For all the "bad calls" and penalties that caused the offense to stall, I'll submit four plays as evidence.

 

1. Against MSU in the first half, he forces a throw on first down in the red zone that leads to a pick with ND having a chance to go up by two TD's.

 

2. In the second half, up 7, with ALL the momentum, he underthrows a WIDE OPEN Mike Floyd. 5 feet longer of a throw and ND is up 14.

 

I was sitting in section 120, in the endzone, looking right down on the field for the Pitt game.

 

3. 1st half against Pitt in the redzone, he leads Floyd too far to the sideline in the end zone and Floyd can't quite bring it down in bounds. Floyd had beaten his man BADLY.

 

4. Overthrow of Rudolph. I happened to be watching Rudolph on this play and the action from the receiver cutting inside and Rudolph outside left Rudy WIDE OPEN. He probably would not have scored but would have been a huge gainer.

 

Now add these four plays on top of numerous overthrows and underthrows and it's clear ND is VERY close. If Crist had more game experience and was more consistent, ND's offense would be devastating. Bodes very well for the rest of this year and next year as he is only going to get better!

 

 

And if we had any backup on the roster he would be given a chance...but we don't and Dayne is improving week in and week out...He's better at this stage of his career than Jimmy was as a Sophomore. That is tough to swallow, but it wasn't until after the North Carolina game did Jimmy begin to take the next step...funny how he was viewed as the golden child, and Dayne is the anti-christ because he is developing at the position...

 

Look if you think playing QB is so easy, than how come ten NFL teams every season are struggling to find QBs who are capable starters or backups...If you think Dayne is so bad, than would you suggest we start Montana or Rees ???

[Frankus 197]

You must not watch much college football. Colt McCoy just graduated with a career completion perentage of 70%. Graham Harrel's career completion percentage was 68%. Sam Bradford's career completion percentage was 68%. Clausen's career completion percentage was 61%.

 

Clausen was an accurate QB, but the spread makes it even easier to have very high completion percentages, even for QB's in their first year.

 

 

I haven't seen consistent accuracy like Clausen's from any QB at the college level in a LONG time.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Frankus

[Pregame 291]

And if we had any backup on the roster he would be given a chance...but we don't and Dayne is improving week in and week out...He's better at this stage of his career than Jimmy was as a Sophomore. That is tough to swallow, but it wasn't until after the North Carolina game did Jimmy begin to take the next step...funny how he was viewed as the golden child, and Dayne is the anti-christ because he is developing at the position...

 

Look if you think playing QB is so easy, than how come ten NFL teams every season are struggling to find QBs who are capable starters or backups...If you think Dayne is so bad, than would you suggest we start Montana or Rees ???

Dayne is a junior, not as many game reps, obviously, but he is a junior.

 

I disagree with the Clausen being the golden boy, at least on campus. Clausen was really quiet and sort of kept to himself. Dayne was always outgoing and seems to be a generally nice guy.

[Guest SavageCanuck]

Things will flow much better once he gains confidence of the coaches. He has to be able too run the spread offense without having to look confused and stare down the sidelines for the playcall. Ive noticed he does not even look at the defense pre-snap sometimes as he's too busy getting the play call

[IrishCalves 0]

Statistically, this is an argument I'm sure I'm going to lose. We're talking about two different things Frankus. There's what my eyeballs tell me, and what the stats say. Colt McCoy as a RS Junior put up crazy numbers. But, I gotta ask, how many times did they ask him to heave it 50 yards down field like they asked Jimmy? Who has the more complete surrounding cast: Texas - who went on to the national championship - or Notre Dame - that ended up 6-6 with a fired head coach?

 

I do watch college football, plenty, and the difference in our opinions isn't inexperience or being naiive, frank. Its the reason I'm not even mentioning Graham Harrell's name, because everybody and their brother puts up numbers in that system. Kliff Kingsburry told me everything I need to know about that scheme and what Leach is capable of getting out of pretty damn mediocre QBs who can't make all the throws. Its that I'm watching for a guy who can make all the throws, makes the vast majority of them, and how those expectations carry over to this year with a more quarterback friendly offense, rather than stats. Colt was asked to take short throws, and throw to guys with easy reads in open space. Jimmy was asked to chuck it deep, throw 15 yard out or comeback routes, hit tight ends in the seam with safeties converging with great regularity, and still come out with great numbers. And comparatively, we saw Jimmy Clausen hit just about everything that moved 15 yards and inward last year, and if he didn't he still made the right throw or the right read, something Dayne has yet to master. Hence, we're getting our shorts in knots over a guy who is our only option to play, and who's only chance at getting better is more reps, which comes with TIME.

 

If you wanna play the stats game, Tony Pike completed 62% of his throws last year, and 61% of throws the year before. Seeing as thats the same scheme we're dealing with here, I'll take 59% of the throws through his 6 starts against 3 ranked teams and 6 BCS conference opponents from Dayne.

[Frankus 197]

If you wanted to take every down spread QB's out of the mix, you should have said you haven't seen a college pro style QB as accurate in a long time. But then, you'd still have to deal with Matt Leinhart and Mark Sanchez and revert to the "they had better receivers to throw to and a better line" argument. BTW: Matt Barkely is hitting 65% of his passes as a true soph this year.

 

As for Pike: We'll be able to win with a QB that only complete 61% of his passes if we get a guy like Mardy Gilyard. That guy was the equivalent of The Rocket for Cincinnati. He averaged 18 yards every time he touched the ball. Without a guy like him, you've got to have a spread guy who is more accurate. You also need a guy who can buy time when teams drop 8, and then make accurate throws on the run.

 

I hope Dayne can get better. We'll see.

 

 

Statistically, this is an argument I'm sure I'm going to lose. We're talking about two different things Frankus. There's what my eyeballs tell me, and what the stats say. Colt McCoy as a RS Junior put up crazy numbers. But, I gotta ask, how many times did they ask him to heave it 50 yards down field like they asked Jimmy? Who has the more complete surrounding cast: Texas - who went on to the national championship - or Notre Dame - that ended up 6-6 with a fired head coach?

 

I do watch college football, plenty, and the difference in our opinions isn't inexperience or being naiive, frank. Its the reason I'm not even mentioning Graham Harrell's name, because everybody and their brother puts up numbers in that system. Kliff Kingsburry told me everything I need to know about that scheme and what Leach is capable of getting out of pretty damn mediocre QBs who can't make all the throws. Its that I'm watching for a guy who can make all the throws, makes the vast majority of them, and how those expectations carry over to this year with a more quarterback friendly offense, rather than stats. Colt was asked to take short throws, and throw to guys with easy reads in open space. Jimmy was asked to chuck it deep, throw 15 yard out or comeback routes, hit tight ends in the seam with safeties converging with great regularity, and still come out with great numbers. And comparatively, we saw Jimmy Clausen hit just about everything that moved 15 yards and inward last year, and if he didn't he still made the right throw or the right read, something Dayne has yet to master. Hence, we're getting our shorts in knots over a guy who is our only option to play, and who's only chance at getting better is more reps, which comes with TIME.

 

If you wanna play the stats game, Tony Pike completed 62% of his throws last year, and 61% of throws the year before. Seeing as thats the same scheme we're dealing with here, I'll take 59% of the throws through his 6 starts against 3 ranked teams and 6 BCS conference opponents from Dayne.

[ErickJD08 0]

Statistically, this is an argument I'm sure I'm going to lose. We're talking about two different things Frankus. There's what my eyeballs tell me, and what the stats say. Colt McCoy as a RS Junior put up crazy numbers. But, I gotta ask, how many times did they ask him to heave it 50 yards down field like they asked Jimmy? Who has the more complete surrounding cast: Texas - who went on to the national championship - or Notre Dame - that ended up 6-6 with a fired head coach?

 

I do watch college football, plenty, and the difference in our opinions isn't inexperience or being naiive, frank. Its the reason I'm not even mentioning Graham Harrell's name, because everybody and their brother puts up numbers in that system. Kliff Kingsburry told me everything I need to know about that scheme and what Leach is capable of getting out of pretty damn mediocre QBs who can't make all the throws. Its that I'm watching for a guy who can make all the throws, makes the vast majority of them, and how those expectations carry over to this year with a more quarterback friendly offense, rather than stats. Colt was asked to take short throws, and throw to guys with easy reads in open space. Jimmy was asked to chuck it deep, throw 15 yard out or comeback routes, hit tight ends in the seam with safeties converging with great regularity, and still come out with great numbers. And comparatively, we saw Jimmy Clausen hit just about everything that moved 15 yards and inward last year, and if he didn't he still made the right throw or the right read, something Dayne has yet to master. Hence, we're getting our shorts in knots over a guy who is our only option to play, and who's only chance at getting better is more reps, which comes with TIME.

 

If you wanna play the stats game, Tony Pike completed 62% of his throws last year, and 61% of throws the year before. Seeing as thats the same scheme we're dealing with here, I'll take 59% of the throws through his 6 starts against 3 ranked teams and 6 BCS conference opponents from Dayne.

 

Jimmy had a TON of weapons around him. He did "heave" it but he also had players who can go up and get the ball. Don't pretend that JC didn't have a good surrounding cast.

[a1ND 0]

Statistically, this is an argument I'm sure I'm going to lose. We're talking about two different things Frankus. There's what my eyeballs tell me, and what the stats say. Colt McCoy as a RS Junior put up crazy numbers. But, I gotta ask, how many times did they ask him to heave it 50 yards down field like they asked Jimmy? Who has the more complete surrounding cast: Texas - who went on to the national championship - or Notre Dame - that ended up 6-6 with a fired head coach?

 

I do watch college football, plenty, and the difference in our opinions isn't inexperience or being naiive, frank. Its the reason I'm not even mentioning Graham Harrell's name, because everybody and their brother puts up numbers in that system. Kliff Kingsburry told me everything I need to know about that scheme and what Leach is capable of getting out of pretty damn mediocre QBs who can't make all the throws. Its that I'm watching for a guy who can make all the throws, makes the vast majority of them, and how those expectations carry over to this year with a more quarterback friendly offense, rather than stats. Colt was asked to take short throws, and throw to guys with easy reads in open space. Jimmy was asked to chuck it deep, throw 15 yard out or comeback routes, hit tight ends in the seam with safeties converging with great regularity, and still come out with great numbers. And comparatively, we saw Jimmy Clausen hit just about everything that moved 15 yards and inward last year, and if he didn't he still made the right throw or the right read, something Dayne has yet to master. Hence, we're getting our shorts in knots over a guy who is our only option to play, and who's only chance at getting better is more reps, which comes with TIME.

 

If you wanna play the stats game, Tony Pike completed 62% of his throws last year, and 61% of throws the year before. Seeing as thats the same scheme we're dealing with here, I'll take 59% of the throws through his 6 starts against 3 ranked teams and 6 BCS conference opponents from Dayne.

 

I'll add on to this - accuracy isn't about completion percentage (for all the reasons Calves already mentioned) - it's about ball location and being able to consistently put it where your receiver can not only catch it, but do something with it. Go back watch Golden's highlight reel that someone posted on here from last year, you'll see balls put into places where either 1) he could only catch or 2) he could catch it and do something with it. He rarely ever had to adjust for balls as they just came down perfectly for him - think of the Mich St game winning TD where Tate ran into the band or the crossing patterns he ran and then kept running because the ball was put where it needed to be or my absolute favorite - the sideline bomb against USC last year placed perfectly between 2 defenders (phenomenal catch too) that I'm not sure anyone else could have made last year - that is accuracy

 

One more note here - people talk about Floyd's numbers being down this year and a huge part of that is his inability to be able to run after the catch since a lot of times he has to dive for balls or wait for them allowing the defenders to catch up to him. The 45 yd reception that was called should have been a TD if it was thrown better. The catch and run for 44yds (that was also called back) was the only time this whole year I can remember where he was able to actually run w/ it. The pass the TJ Jones that he had to dive for instead of running into the end zone with is the difference between a TD and a FG (since the drive ended up stalling) and we see this over and over again. Clausen is the most accurate college QB I've ever seen and I watch a lot of CFB (not saying he's the best, just the most ACCURATE).

 

With all this being said, I do think Crist will continue to grow and his accuracy will improve as he builds better mechanics and understands the system better and builds confidence in himself and his WRs, but he will never be Clausen accurate.

[sg4nd 0]

Please re-read my post. I never said he was that bad, in fact, I said at the end that his continued development "bodes very well for us the rest of this year and next year as he is only going to get better."

 

You could also go back and read my follow up post, post number 4 of this thread. Ahh, never mind, I'll quote it here:

 

"Thanks for the heads up wave. I'm not saying anything against Dayne as I think he has done a great job in his first season as QB. Much better than Brady or Jimmy did. I just feel he has room to grow and he'll be MUCH better next year with a year under his belt. A couple throws here and there and we are at least 4-2 with blow out wins in our last two games.

 

He'll also be better because we'll be better prepared at back-up QB and BK can really open up the playbook."

 

Geesh, people are so quick to blast a post without reading the entire thread. Unbelievable!!!! You were right Wave!

[sg4nd 0]

Sorry, my post above is in response to da Coach.

[CelticImport 51]

We've been spoiled man... Clausen was a fantastic thrower... set an unrealistic bar of expectations for a lot of fans.

 

[P]roject a full season's work (which will probably be even better considering Western Michigan, Army, and, hopefully Navy). 22 TDs, 8 INTs, 3200 yards, and 59% completion percentage. I take that in a heartbeat.

 

And seriously, if we're griping about Crist, imagine how we'd feel if he didn't regain vision out of his eye, and we were rocking Tommy Rees and Nate Montana... In 2 of our 3 losses, he gives the defense a lead before the last possession of the game. Not much more you can ask for.

 

+1 Amen brother. Where would we be without Crist? Nuff said.

[rocket31 0]

in a weird way, i think the rudolph injury will help in the development of crist.

 

instead of concentrating on rudy, he will now be forced to make the correct read...

 

far too many times, crist would lock in on a double-teamed rudolph, only to miss a wide open mike floyd or theo riddick...