RockneDrive

I don't understand people calling this the biggest game in years, blah, blah. It's just another USC game. The biggest USC game in recent years was the Bush Push game. This won't rise to that level, nor should it, considering our team is not complete with such a crappy defense. If they are down, that's awesome because we may win, but winning against a less than perfect USC team doesn't make this the biggest USC game in a decade. It makes it another USC game. If USC was at it's prime and we had a chance, that's one thing. But they aren't at their best and neither are we.

Well said!

I'm not too sure of a shootout Rockne..It's possible tho...

 

I hope that word hasn't been mentioned in the main Sports media.

 

Over the years when a talking head says 'shootout' I've observed it never is. So I would like JC to really air it out some and that word is a no, no to me.

 

For me it's lumped with a 'talking about'...Who the heck was talking about some other player? Not me. Just some filler from the color man.

I'd settle for an interesting shoot-out. I'd rather watch a good shoot-out than to be shut-out.http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/363/loluk4.gif

Oh ok, let's air it out!

Excellent points, I just teeter on the reality that we could have lost some very close games (we also could have won the one that did get away)...

 

While this season has been a success, it's a very fine line away from being a total disaster.

Agreed! We could easily be 5-0 OR 0-5 or anywhere in between. The margins are extremely tight. JC has proved he can move the ball down the field at will. The red zone offfensive performance could use some improvement and I expect the practices will focus on that aspect. The question will be can JC move the ball at will against arguably one of the best defenses we have faced thus far? And how will he perform if that defense rattles him with an interception or some sacks and/or a lot of 3 and outs?

We will find out this Saturday whether or not our offensive firepower is for real or not. My belief is that we will move the ball on USC and surprise them. I don't think you can stop JC. We must however do a better job once we get into the red zone. With our defense, we will need to get it into the endzone and a bunch of field goals won't cut it against USC.

Expect a shoot-out with an Irish victory! Let's hope the defense comes to play and has its best performance of the year.

Rockne "we hate in others, what we hate in ourselves"-- Depak Chopra--- try to relax and move toward the light my friend-- aloha--GO IRISH!

Thanks for the psyche 101 class but I've already had that about 4 decades ago. I say to you and to him:

I calls em' as I see's em'.http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9408/shocked003hx1.gif

Nothing more.

Stop being so self-righteous and don't get your panties in a ringer every time someone offers some constructive criticism against the coach or a player or any other aspect of ND football. Someone else said "an unexamined life isn't worth living." and we all know that criticism makes us better if we examine and learn from it rather than let it get into our heads and bother us to the point where we don't make improvements.

BTW, I thought CW called a good game and made better decisions in taking the field goals rather than being

"cute" and "surprising" everyone with a trick play.http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4594/clapji7.gif

He just may be learning how to be a good coach but I am still extremely skeptical about him AT THIS TIME.

I am seeing a pretty darn good offense, and a defense that is still weak but seems to be developing nicely, especially the goal line defense - frickin' awesome! But reality will be upon us soon and we will see what CW and the team is made of in 11 Days, 23 Hours, 48 Minutes, 59 Seconds Until Kickoff With Southern Cal

Go Irish!

Screw the poodle! http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1310/eatdrink004it2.gif

Looks like i struck a nerve eh!--

I just calls em as I see's em'.

having read through todays posts --i think all and all we stayed on the ND team---i understand alot of the flailing around, much of the negativity and despondency during the game was understandable in the heat of a game like this-- hell i'm an optimist but i'm human-- i felt it too---

 

BUT i do take issue with a certain group of posters-- now i'm not going to name names because most of us know who they are-- FOR THE RECORD-- i do not include DJ and the fans of his realism at all in this group, most of them i call friends and partners in this seasons adventure--- my complaint is not about that--- they want to win and this team can be frustrating-- not agreeing with me is certainly no sin-- indeed my wife see's it as a true VIRTUE!!

 

BUT FOR A VERY FEW OF YOU-- I ASK YOU RETHINK WHERE YOUR LOYALTIES LIE----as the boards designated optimist i don't mind being a punching bag when things go poorly-- its fine-- i accept it as part of the territory-----

 

BUT AS AN ALUMNI AND FAN__ I DO RESENT A CERTAIN KIND OF POST--- THE KIND OF POST THAT SEEMS TO BE HOPING FOR FAILURE AS A WAY TOWARD PERSONAL VINDICATION THAT CHARLIE AND THE TEAM SUCK!

 

TO BE FRANK__ I HAVE HAD IT WITH THE TENOR AND TRANSPARENT SELF SERVING NATURE OF THAT DESTRUCTIVE FORM OF CRITICISM--- WITH FANS LIKE THEM WHO NEEDS ENEMIES!!!

 

to be clear here -- i do accept and learn from many of the negative posts-- and i enjoy the banter with the realist wing of DD who have in many ways a damn good case to make---- BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT ROOTING FOR DEFEAT IN ORDER TO FIND PERSONAL GRATIFCATION__ THAT IS NO ND FAN--- AND IF THIS CRITICISM IS ABOUT YOU__ THAN I SIMPLY ASK__ GET A GRIP_ AND BE LOYAL TO YOUR TEAM__ IF IT IS YOUR TEAM______ALOHA--- ENJOY A CLASSIC WIN__ A GREAT GAME__ AND A TWO WEEK REPRIEVE WHERE WE CAN ARGUE LIKE ADULTS ABOUT OUR CHANCES WITH USC!!!---GO IRISH!

Self-righteous, sanctimonious crap. And that's being kind. Get over yourself preppy.

It's not your loyalty that I question...It's your mouth...and how you are the first to launch the fire charlie cannon and question how a true sophomore is able to lead a group of young men. When the team struggles you take the chance to use that as some kind of holier than thou position and kick dirt on them, with or without merit. So while we all acknowledge you as a fan, some of us still choose to view your posts as irrational and lacking any real long term vision...

 

There's a lesson to be learned from the kid who screams fire at every sight of smoke, sometimes its a cigar and sometimes its a building, discresion is the ability to recognize the difference, and is something that it appears you lack more times than not.

 

I'm glad you are a fan, you have an encyclopedia of knowledge, but most of it stems from 15-20 years ago and fails to acknowledge the turn around that this team is undertaking and the rational to question the leadership of this program as a result of the inexperienced and physically underdeveloped freshman and sophomores taking their lumps in order to prepare for the future and long term, shows a genuine flip-flop mentality that could paralyze this program if anyone would listen to you...

A very arrogant and condescending response to a genuinely humble post. No class.

Who needs your approval as to whether one is a "true" fan or not?

Rock, do you happen to be a mod over at NDnation? That rant sounds an awful lot like their mantra...

Rant? I was dead seeerious.

Bah! Don't you optimists know anything?! WE ARE ND!!!

 

What I think we should do is load our schedule up with the toughest of the tough every game, just like Florida does! That's the only way to become elite, after all. We'll lose four or five games a year, fire our coach in mid-season every year, and eventually be forced to join a conference. Now that's how you usher in a new "ara" of ND football.

Yes, mediocrity will indeed be our tradition. But, seriously, isn't it now? We only slipped past Purdue by three points on Saturday, and on a last minute drive no less. We should be beating them by at least 153 points every time we play them. I mean, come on, aren't they in the same conference as William and Mary?

What's that you say? Our number one running back, full back, and wide receiver weren't able to play, and our starting quarterback was severely limited due to turf toe? What rubbish! Injuries are a part of the game. Our backups, hell, our third stringers should be able to play with anyone in the country. These kids were all four and five star guys coming out of high school, for Christ's sake! Continuity and playing experience are vastly overrated, and don't even get me started on that "high school kids aren't as strong or fit as college seniors/potential NFLers" crap. No excuses!

Notre Dame held Purdue's potent rushing attack to only 74 yards you say? Yeah, only because they count negative rushing plays and sacks against that stat. What does it matter if Darius Flemming spent half the night in the Purdue backfield, effectively making Ralph Bolden his bitch? The Purdue back still broke off a couple of decent runs past the line of scrimmage. This is unacceptable! It's not like Bolden was one of the top five rushers in the country coming into the game or anything.

And those positive posts keep coming as if the old mantra of "a win is a win" still held water. I'm tired of you eternal optimists, you clueless cheerleaders. You people will never understand that this is COLLEGE football. If you're not winning by fifty, you're really just losing. How can you still be positive when we lost the game?

 

Cheer, cheer, for Old Notre Dame (because there's nothing but doom and gloom ahead).

Touche!

The truth lies somewhere between your post and mine.

I think we should just soften the schedule so that we can be 12-0 every year. Now that's ND football! And CW will be the genius he thinks he is. Everyone will be happy because we will win. Let's usher in a new "ara" of ND football.

Mediocrity will be our tradition. Winning is the only thing that matters. Bring on Baylor and Nevada. Isn't it wonderful how our team wins so many football games and how good they execute against every team?

What's that you say? We are not number one on the BCS? Those are just ND haters.

JC is not a Heisman candidate you say? But just look at how he picked apart every opponent. CW should be coach of the year.

And those negative posts keep coming as if who we play and how we win is important. Hey a win is a win! I'm tired of you negative analysts, you Monday morning QB's. You people will never be happy with CW. His play calling the entire year was impeccable. And - ND WON! How can you still be negative when we won the game?

Cheer, cheer, for Old Notre Dame.

Does Sean slap them with the front of his hand or the back of his hand...because if it's the back...that's COMPLETELY disrespectful.

LOL!

Here he is in his own words:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FgMLROTqJ0

Don't mean to be an ass here...but didn't Steven beat his wife? I understand the point though...sorry. He does look good in the movies.

I don't know about Steven beating his wife but I do know that Sean Connery slaps women who he says don't know when to shut up. Saw him say that during a Barbara Walters interview a long time ago. The feminists gave him a pass because they must have thought only a good-looking manly hunk (007) could say something like that. hahahaha

I remember in the recent past a home game against Navy. We had bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic and higher-rated players and everyone expected a blowout win. We lost.

Nothing is a gimme with CW as the coach. Nothing!

Go Irish!

"If I don't win a N.C. by my 5th year, they should fire me"- C.W.

I've been trying to google that quote but can't seem to find it. I thought I heard CW make that statement too his first year. Where can I find the source of that quote?

That was an interesting post my friend-- i think you just made my point!

What point? You just ranted about things I never said or implied and you can't answer my questions. Check.

ROCKNEDRIVE--- its best if your a little less emotional and maybe a bit more reasoned--- you cannot claim you are being persecuted for speaking ill of wies--lol--- that statement is just delusional----- have you read the threads or do you just rant???--- charlie has been under relentless attack since hector was a pup-- even after a win-- its all chalries fault we didnt win easier-- tenuta the very fella pundits proclaim as a defensive guru-- has a very weak start on the D he controls-- and its WELL CHARLIE HIRED HIM----you seem to think you are the only one who realizes we have problems, despite thread after thread and post after post of others finding blame and fault everywhere, and all leading to charlie---IMO that is as it should be, he is the head coach-- but to think those of us who want to temper the defeatist attitudes at least until the teams season warrants it-- are in any way running the asylum here means you havent been reading enough threads---- We all know charlie is walking on a tightrope-- We all know we have defensive problems-- We all know we could have won that michigan game and losy the MSU game--- We all know charlie will pay the piper for another disappointing year--NONE OF THIS IS NEWS!

 

So all we ask is to restrain the fire this guy fire that guy hes a bum talk until the season merits such talk!

 

That isnt asking alot and it is clearly not some hypersensitivity to criticism of charlie--lol--- that truly is a laughable notion after the last two years--- we have some exciting high profile games coming right up---maybe this really isnt the best time TO BURY THE COACH__BURY THE SEASON & BURY THE TEAM---- how about just a simple GO IRISH!--see that doesnt hurt

Your post is a perfect example of making up stuff about another person's post. I think you might be projecting about being emotional. I certainly haven't been emotional.

What did I say that gave you the impression I was being emotional?

Where did I claim I was being persecuted?

What statement did I make that was delusional?

Where did I imply I was the only one who thinks ND has problems?

What made you think I have a defeatist attitude?

Where in this thread did I say we should fire CW?

Where did I say CW was a bum? Pointing out his record gave you that impression? My my.

What gave you the impression that I'm all for burying the season or the coach or the team?

If anyone is suffering from delusions, my friend I'm sorry to say it looks like your entire post fit that description.

Go Irish!

To really stir things up, I fall on the side of the fence that not only admits our defense is bad, but Charlie's overall coaching and offensive play-calling are not excluded from his criticism.

 

Weis seems to outsmart himself 3 or 4 times a game on offense. Something is working, but he has this 'special play' that he thinks needs executed. Look no further than the reverse-Tate- pass that blew up this past week as an example. These are momentum killers and limits an otherwise very productive offense. This is not a new phenomenon this year for Weis.

 

I also personally find his style of offense to be too reactive. It really doesn't have an identity other than the "go routes" once a series. Just because a team loads 8 men into the box does not mean you can't run the ball. Yet, this is exactly what Weis said was the reason he threw at the end of the Michigan game. Good-to-elite teams can execute a grinding drive and pound their opponent to the ground in those situations. I have no confidence that Weis will ever attempt this basic physical mentality.

 

And this leads to the final criticism. Charlie is not a good game manager. As a Parcells fan, I thought Charlie would have this attribute imprinted in him. Parcells used to talk about getting the lead and shortening the game. Pounding the ball, leaving the other team's defense on the field, control the time of possession with high percentage passes, and running the ball. Parcells did this all the way back into the 3rd Qtr. Contrary to popular belief, you can score TD's with such an offensive possession.

 

Weis gets the lead and thinks its time to get tricky. It's time to air it out. This leads to short drives, allowing the other team to creep back into the game. It also leaves a struggling defense on the field LONGER -which makes no sense from a head coaching perspective.

 

I don't have any faith that if the defense gets 'fixed' that then all the sudden all is well for Weis. He'll win the majority of shootouts against lesser teams, but he'll coach his team out of games and this is not what good head coaches do.

I think you made some very good points! Getting cute when we should have kept doing what worked turned that game around and let MSU off of the hook.

I am a guy who is on the fence with Weis but its funny how some people can't give him credit for anything. And how some people can't be happy with a win. You guys are the same people who are ripping Pete Carroll a new one except a different fanbase.

Go back and read Katzenboyer's posts. I think your statement is completely false and you are putting words into people's mouths and claiming people say something they never said.

Please show me who has on this thread expressed that they can't be happy with a win or can't give CW credit for anything. I missed that. Help me out please. Who are these "some people?"

Actually, no - I don't say that I won't be convinced Weis can be the guy. What my post says is that the offense is good and Charlie deserves credit, but if the defense continues to stink than he deserves the blame. And thus far the defense has been bad, and therefore, he should take the heat because of it.

 

Again, I'm baffled that anyone would take my post and say "There's no way Weis can convince me he's the guy." If he gets the defense playing well, and he eliminates the mental errors that are plaguing this team, I'm fine with him coaching ND. If the defense continues to let inferior teams hang in, then that should count against him -- even if his offense is very, very good.

 

Please tell me where in my post I say that no matter what happens, Weis isn't the guy for ND. Show me.

 

He's built a great offense, and if the defense can match the offensive production and help us win more games, then Weis should stay. But at the end of the season, if our defense is still as bad as it's been, we will have a very large problem, and that problem will and should fall squarely on Weis' shoulders.

Jumping to erroneous and unverifible conclusions and mischaracterizing what one posts seems to be rampant on this thread. And it seems to be primarily directed towards anyone who dares whisper a critical remark about CW.

If charlie takes us to a BCS game this year---that will be 3 BCS appearances in 5 years for a program that was DEAD FOOTBALL WALIKNG FOR A DECADE!---A program missing 2 lost years of recruits-- a program with high standards for recruiting----and a very low scholorship count-----If we make it to and win a BCS game in 2009--- and head to 2010 with what will be a top 15 or top 10 preseason team in 2010-----THEN IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT SHOULD ANSWER ALL THESE QUESTIONS-- AND BY YOUR OWN STANDARD , THIS REBUILING WOULD BE A SUCCESS BASED ON FACTS NOT WHAT IF's------AND ALL THE COMPLAINING BECOMES JUST SO MUCH NOISE!!

 

so it seems by almost any logic-- a 3rd BCS appearance in 5 years-- and a win--- would translate into a great job by charlie, despite the losses in a tough 2 year cycle----So if you think this team is toast and will struggle to win 7 or 8 then the argument is MUTE because charlie will be gone---If on the other hand -- charlie pulls this team (WITHOUT THERE BIGGEST PLAYMAKER) and manages to find a road to the BCS then he will have success based on results not recruiting like any ND COACH!

 

I ask one more time-- cant we find it as a display of class and decorum to "HOLD OUR FIRE__OR AT LEAST TEMPER IT"__UNTIL THE SEASON UNFOLDS IN A MORE DEFINED WAY--

 

Afterall-- we just watched a notre dame QB -- by force of will bring us back again and again while limping , under pressure, kicked in the head---etc--- we just watched a team RUN THE BALL--AND DO IT WELL-- BEHIND THAT WEAK BACK THAT GOES DOWN TO EASY __ AND THE GOAT OF THE LAST TWO YEARS THE OLINE__JUST PLAYING VERY WELL

 

Where is the satisfaction from those on this board who for the last two years have had one thing to say-- OLINE--run the ball--OLINE we cant run--OLINE is the key to the team--OLINE is so weak we can never be good--OLINE is filled with softies--ETC ETC ETC---- you all know this is true-- and yet now that we have established a running game-- and protected jimmy very well-- from a VASTLY IMPROVED OLINE--- NOW AFTER TWO RELENTLESS YEARS OF COMPLAINING IT JUST DOESNT MATTER--its like HO_HUM so we can run-- thats nice

 

now its all about the defense and this criticism and that--- it is like follow the bouncing ball of complaints-- win loose no matter-- run or dont run-- no matter-- win on the last play a thrilling game -- won by a gritty team-- and led by an AMAZING QB-- well nevermind i have complaining to do!!!

 

IMO we will best purdue--- we match up very well against washington that is tough against the run but faced a QB in aaron corps who was HAPLESS IN THAT GAME---- WE WILL BEAT THE HUSKIES AND WELCOME USC INTO TOWN AT 4-1 RANKED AT # 24--- With the big game of the weekend-- a game loaded with recruits-- a really FUN AND EXCITING PROSPECT-----

 

So i ask again-- cant we at least temper the negativity while we are only two weeks away from what can be a HUGE TURNING POINT GAME FOR THE TEAM!!--- it just seems like there will be plenty of time to whine after the team fails us another season--THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED AS OF NOW__INDEED LOTS OF FUN AHEAD--- My advice RELAX AND ENJOY AND DONT WALLOW IN PREMATURE BLAME AND PREMATURE ANGER!!!

 

EVEN ND FOOTBALL CAN BE FUN WHEN ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE AND YOU HAVE THE BEST QB IN THE COUNTRY___LETS SHOW A BIT MORE SUPPORT!------ALOHA GO IRISH!

The noise to signal ratio is rising dramatically where you can't hear much of anything. You are assuming in your rant that I've said things I never said or implied. I want ND to win just as much as any fan. Regardless of where the program was before CW or how many BCS bowls we've made, or how good this year's offense is or how bad this year's offense is, the bottom line for any coach is wins and losses. CW is not the first coach to inherit a long drought of poor coaching and sub-par performance and won't be the last.

Stating the facts about a coach's W-L record doesn't mean one cannot enjoy ND football games or cannot relax or is wallowing in premature blame, blah, blah, blah. It is what it is.

Some of you homers crack me up.

The question I have from some of you homers is why do you get so hysterical and defensive when CW's less than stellar record is brought up? Facts shouldn't move you to be so touchy.

Well, I think the "what is his record in the past" is past and just noise. I couldn't ask for anything more on the offense THIS year. If the defense makes the fixes, they will be a very good team THIS year. And THIS year is far from over. And I could care less what happen in 2007.

So Knute Rockne's past record had nothing to do with his success as a head football coach?

Performance on the field and wins and losses is what separates a great coach from an average coach. And they all faced the same problems with recruiting, young players, other good teams, etc. Bottom line, what is CW's record? Hopey-changy doesn't mean crap.

I'm sure Jerry Faust had his fans other than his family who thought he had much better potential and would have done much better if only ND had given him more time.

Sooner or later, CW's W-L record will be the only relevant factor as to whether or not he is a great coach or an average coach. That standard should be no different for him just because he's a nice guy and had success as an OC in the NFL. That standard applied to Davie, Ara, Ty, and it should also apply to CW, even though a dropped pass here or a missed tackle there might have made the difference between the NC and the toilet bowl.

Help me understand something here...He goes to 2 BCS games...has a 1st round QB drafted...wins the Hawaii Bowl (first bowl win for ND since some of his players were born)... has the offense and qb looking unstoppable and as a result of piss poor officiating and great play from our opponents, he isn't the right man for the job???

 

Give me a break, you guys are acting like he came to this program in 1993 and started the let down in the program...He is rebuilding the program and I think has done a damn fine job of making us relevant on the national stage in recruiting, playing meaningful games in November and while losing is never acceptable, it is part of the rebuilding process...the same way that patience is a part of the fans responsibility...

 

Had Forcier fumbled in the final 30 seconds...would this even be a conversation?

 

As for the defense's struggles...He is on his 3rd defensive coordinator and has a new Dline coach this year and has signed some of the best defensive recruits over the past 25 years. If they aren't producing, maybe its because we have gone from 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 the past 3 seasons which is believe it or not difficult to do for young players...there has been little to no consistancy in their responsibilities and they have yet to develop total comfort in Tenuta's system...

 

Tenuta calls the plays, and Weis is to blame...sounds a bit half-cocked to me. How about we let Tenuta get to know his personel and his personel know his style of defense before we blame the head coach for not having a defense that shuts a team out every week... Because, I don't think you people were critical after the nevada game...You are looking for reasons to be critical and to be honest its pathetic...

 

We have beaten two good teams and lost to a top 20 team...The sky isn't exactly falling.

 

And to those of you who say our National Title dreams are dead...Did you say the same thing about Florida losing to Ole Miss last year or when LSU lost twice two years ago or how about Florida the year before that...2003 both LSU and USC lost a game and split a national title...

 

This isn't the 1940s we haven't exactly been the most dominant team of the past few decades and with recruits focusing on winning, we are taking the first real step in building a dynasty...that is unless you brainless 'fire charlie' fans get your way and throw us back into another 4-5 year rebuilding process under some other coach dejour.

The bottom line for any coach is his record. How does his record compare to the great coaches at ND at this particular time in his tenure? How does his record compare to the coaches like Faust and other inferior coaches? When we can see that, we can make a valid comparision and assessement of CW.

Does anyone have the stats in this comparison as to how both great and not-so-great coaches did against teams with winning records their first 4+ years?

Now these are factors that are objective and one can hang their hat on to determine whether or not CW is a good coach. Everything else is just opinion and speculation. We need to be realisitic and not constantly say things like, "if only this would have happened, then our record would be blah, blah, blah. What actually happens on the field is what counts, not what might have happened. This applies to every head coach at ND since our very first game. The rest is all noise.

I think Charlie's too afraid of getting headbutted or something to say anything to Tenuta.

Or blindsided when his back is to the defensive players on the field.

How is it that Tenuta's defense can be so unbelievably dominant at G.Tech (see ND vs GT, 2007, a 33-3 ass whoopin' where we were sacked 9 times) and so mediocre with ND? Did GT's defense have that many better athletes than ours? I doubt it....something's amiss...

That's the million dollar question. Very puzzling to me too.

I'm guessing it has more to do with lack of talent than bad coaching, but what do I know?