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WRs lack speed?


irish21

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I'm honestly not impressed by this article, and tend to think it is a half informed crap stir for a slow day in recruiting:

 

- The article mentioned "two linebackers" and "two defensive lineman" for ND. At the HS level that's true, but anyone who follows ND recruiting knows that Fleming is their 3rd LB, primed to play in a 3-4. So for starters, their numbers are a little off.

 

- Brice Butler's "excellent speed" is a 4.59 forty, according to the cited source of info, rivals.com. Typically speaking, that isn't "excellent" when it comes to speed. Now, the info from scout.com tells me a little more on how he maximizes his speed based on being a technician, but thats not what I get from this article.

 

- If I'm a ho-hum fan who does just a little research on rivals, linked at the top of the page, I won't be able to figure out why Duval Kamara's 4.6 forty isn't ready to be a deep threat, whereas Brice Butler's 4.59 is the "speed solution". It wasn't openly stated as though the two were juxtaposed, but the inference is that Duval isn't the answer, whereas Brice Butler and Michael Floyd are.

 

- The receiver they mentioned as committing to Tennessee on the bottom, Antonio Bell, is listed at 6'3" 200 lbs by SI. Yet when you look at rivals, he loses an inch in height, as well as 30 pounds :shock: .

 

From what little I've seen of SI's coverage of college recruiting, I've never come away very impressed with it. Again, this doesn't look like it was well researched, nor well edited. Those are my two cents.

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Guest heismancaliber
I'm honestly not impressed by this article, and tend to think it is a half informed crap stir for a slow day in recruiting:

 

- The article mentioned "two linebackers" and "two defensive lineman" for ND. At the HS level that's true, but anyone who follows ND recruiting knows that Fleming is their 3rd LB, primed to play in a 3-4. So for starters, their numbers are a little off.

 

- Brice Butler's "excellent speed" is a 4.59 forty, according to the cited source of info, rivals.com. Typically speaking, that isn't "excellent" when it comes to speed. Now, the info from scout.com tells me a little more on how he maximizes his speed based on being a technician, but thats not what I get from this article.

 

- If I'm a ho-hum fan who does just a little research on rivals, linked at the top of the page, I won't be able to figure out why Duval Kamara's 4.6 forty isn't ready to be a deep threat, whereas Brice Butler's 4.59 is the "speed solution". It wasn't openly stated as though the two were juxtaposed, but the inference is that Duval isn't the answer, whereas Brice Butler and Michael Floyd are.

 

- The receiver they mentioned as committing to Tennessee on the bottom, Antonio Bell, is listed at 6'3" 200 lbs by SI. Yet when you look at rivals, he loses an inch in height, as well as 30 pounds :shock: .

 

From what little I've seen of SI's coverage of college recruiting, I've never come away very impressed with it. Again, this doesn't look like it was well researched, nor well edited. Those are my two cents.

 

Not saying i disagree what your post, just wanted to point out the author of the article is Mike Farrell of Rivals, not that like "RISE" service SI normally uses for recruiting

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Point taken. I don't want to be too harsh on SI in general, so I'm glad you pointed out the difference with this article.

 

Again, I've had limited experiences with SI's coverage, but for the most part, I wouldn't rely on them to be the first to know about a kid, or to have premiere info on prospects. They had some okay stuff on NSD, putting things in perspective and whatnot, but otherwise, I'd rather go directly to rivals or scout...

 

... or the guys at DD :D

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Guest gallup21

i noticed in the paragraph about Goodman, Kamara, and Tate he completely blew off the '06 class of Jackson, Parris, Gallup, and West. Two of those, Gallup and West ran 4.4 forties and both have had at least one full year in the system

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I'm honestly not impressed by this article, and tend to think it is a half informed crap stir for a slow day in recruiting:

i think the article is dead on. i don't understand how ND can bring in all these stud offensive players but struggel to in bringing in WR studs (we almost had benn and little). CW really needs to hit it big with the WRs this year.

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Guest bluester2000

Russ,

I think we've got some solid players, and numbers to strengthen depth, but we have yet to bring in a wide out that will make the recruiting services sit up and say "wow." And the fact is CW's missed on some of his top flite WR recruits. I'm concerned that our recruiting coordinator (Ianello) seems to be struggling recruiting at his coaching position (wide receiver).

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I am not concerned at all. I think we are lucky to have recruited the players that we have. We have had great recruiting classes and we have landed some talent at wide receiver the past couple years but have yet to land a 5 star super-prep. That will happen this year.

As ND fans I think we have quickly forgotten that a few years ago not many people were high on ND like they are now...this year is the first year in recruiting where most of these kids realize ND is here to stay, i think the last couple seasons have proved that point and now we can expect to get the 5 star receivers. Weis has done an excellent job bringing recruiting at ND out of the basement where Ty left it. I think this year will be our best recruiting year yet and next year will be even better. USC who?

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I think speedy recievers, in the 4.4's and faster, can really stretch the field. However, a stable of special RB's and tight ends that can block and catch are just as important. The O-line is the most important group on players on the offense. I believe that at WR while a fast reciever is great, two 6-5 pillars with 4.6ish speed is more difficult for D's to cover. I'd rather have a phenomenal running game and a great passing game, than the converse.

Irishcalves, i totally agree that we picked up speed at reciever. But i think GT's underutilization of Calvin Johnson is evidence that the author of the article had a deadline to make and really had nothing to say. Super-fast recievers can help a team win, but moving the chains and putting 13 play scoring-drives is the best way to win, even in the fast=best trend these days. Next year, the last thing we need are "quick-scores." I love them, they demoralize the other team, but we need to keep our D rested and off the field. I just think the author should have focused on ND's rebuilding of the O-line. That is the biggest question mark in my mind. Last year we had a bunch of vets and they played like dirt. That would have been some worthwhile sports journalism, but that is just MHO.

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Well said Joe. Your icon of Stovall and Samardzija is very fitting for your argument about big receivers.

 

Big bodied receivers often get overlooked in favor of the guy that runs that 4.4 forty, but for the college level, the big bodies work. Yes, guys like Mike Williams have been professional flops, but he dominated college defenses.

 

WR speed is kind of like QB arm strength: you need to be capable, but there are other more important things to have.

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Didn't Dwayne Jarrett's draft stock fall because he failed to run a blazing 40 time (wasn't it in the 4.6 range?)?

 

Boy that guy was too slow to make an impact in the college game. USC should have never started him. He was never a difference maker.

 

All a bunch of b.s. the guy was basically unstoppable for a lot of teams and that type of player could be Kamara or Parris or Jackson, or Gallup.

 

Truth is special players are special because they just are, not because they run fast in a straight line for 40 yards.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well thats a load of crap, :D . I'm not accusing you of lying Mike, but I think Rivals is. He never looked, or was, a 4.3 40 guy, even out of high school. His 40 time at the NFL combine was reportedly 4.61, and his pro day was supposedly a 4.55 time. And I don't think he'd lose about 2/10ths of a second from his time after adding 10 lbs from his reported 208 HS weight.

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I'm honestly not impressed by this article, and tend to think it is a half informed crap stir for a slow day in recruiting:

 

- The article mentioned "two linebackers" and "two defensive lineman" for ND. At the HS level that's true, but anyone who follows ND recruiting knows that Fleming is their 3rd LB, primed to play in a 3-4. So for starters, their numbers are a little off.

 

- Brice Butler's "excellent speed" is a 4.59 forty, according to the cited source of info, rivals.com. Typically speaking, that isn't "excellent" when it comes to speed. Now, the info from scout.com tells me a little more on how he maximizes his speed based on being a technician, but thats not what I get from this article.

 

- If I'm a ho-hum fan who does just a little research on rivals, linked at the top of the page, I won't be able to figure out why Duval Kamara's 4.6 forty isn't ready to be a deep threat, whereas Brice Butler's 4.59 is the "speed solution". It wasn't openly stated as though the two were juxtaposed, but the inference is that Duval isn't the answer, whereas Brice Butler and Michael Floyd are.

 

- The receiver they mentioned as committing to Tennessee on the bottom, Antonio Bell, is listed at 6'3" 200 lbs by SI. Yet when you look at rivals, he loses an inch in height, as well as 30 pounds :shock: .

 

From what little I've seen of SI's coverage of college recruiting, I've never come away very impressed with it. Again, this doesn't look like it was well researched, nor well edited. Those are my two cents.

 

Not saying i disagree what your post, just wanted to point out the author of the article is Mike Farrell of Rivals, not that like "RISE" service SI normally uses for recruiting

 

Mike Farrell is a douche who wishes he could carry Mike Franks jock. He is uninformed and treats recruiting like Gammons in baseball. Throw enough crap out there and you are likely to have something stick.

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Guest heismancaliber

I believe Peter Gammons is in the MLB hall of fame so i'd say he knows something or two about baseball, and Mike Frank doesn't deserve this reputation as being a genius of recruiting that he's created for himself. He does the same thing you describe in regards to throwing crap against the wall, all he says is "The Irish have a good shot" well wow that really tells us a lot, he says that about damn near every prospect unless the writing is on the wall (such as a Terrell Pryor) then if a kid goes elsewhere that he was picking to ND he says "Oh he verballed to ND but switched" to try and do spin control

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