4thand1 Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 Angeli is the obvious better passer and Leonard the obvious better runner. There are going to be games that ND has to come back from 10 or more late in the game and Leonard won't be able to do that. If it were my choice, I would devise a gameplan utilizing both of them. I would start Angeli and work in Leonard as play dictates it. ND has to showcase a passing game and move beyond a run based (only) offense. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 Just now, 4thand1 said: Angeli is the obvious better passer and Leonard the obvious better runner. There are going to be games that ND has to come back from 10 or more late in the game and Leonard won't be able to do that. If it were my choice, I would devise a gameplan utilizing both of them. I would start Angeli and work in Leonard as play dictates it. ND has to showcase a passing game and move beyond a run based (only) offense. Leonard should be Notre Dame's Taysom Hill. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithInIrish Forever Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 9 minutes ago, Mike said: Leonard should be Notre Dame's Taysom Hill. Like it. I think you need to be ready to use both guys. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Chris Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 28 minutes ago, Mike said: Leonard should be Notre Dame's Taysom Hill. It's going to be hard to go away from Riley now simply because he ran for 3 TDs today, and that's an asset. Taysom is much stronger and faster than Riley too. Oh yea, and Taysom can throw a little. Riley will cost us another game once teams figure out how to defend his running. Teams will be scheming for that from here on out, and having to rely on Riley to convert 3rd and longs is going to be a really big problem for us down the line. He just isn't capable. Teams with a great front 7 won't allow him to get to the edge or gouge them in B and C gap plays running behind pulling guards and tight ends. We might have no choice but to mix Angeli in a few plays here and there. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 35 minutes ago, Mike said: Leonard should be Notre Dame's Taysom Hill. Yes, this I can get behind! 38 minutes ago, 4thand1 said: Angeli is the obvious better passer and Leonard the obvious better runner. There are going to be games that ND has to come back from 10 or more late in the game and Leonard won't be able to do that. If it were my choice, I would devise a gameplan utilizing both of them. I would start Angeli and work in Leonard as play dictates it. ND has to showcase a passing game and move beyond a run based (only) offense. Totally agree! It would be the best of both worlds, and Notre Dame could be completely unstoppable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgov12 Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 1 minute ago, Irish Chris said: It's going to be hard to go away from Riley now simply because he ran for 3 TDs today, and that's an asset. Taysom is much stronger and faster than Riley too. Oh yea, and Taysom can throw a little. Riley will cost us another game once teams figure out how to defend his running. Teams will be scheming for that from here on out, and having to rely on Riley to convert 3rd and longs is going to be a really big problem for us down the line. He just isn't capable. Teams with a great front 7 won't allow him to get to the edge or gouge them in B and C gap plays running behind pulling guards and tight ends. We might have no choice but to mix Angeli in a few plays here and there. That line I highlighted exactly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Chris Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 5 minutes ago, mcgov12 said: That line I highlighted exactly. Team defenses will base their entire gameplan on that. They know he hasn't thrown a TD pass in a very long time and they'll see all the tape on his throwing limitations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithInIrish Forever Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 1 minute ago, Irish Chris said: Team defenses will base their entire gameplan on that. They know he hasn't thrown a TD pass in a very long team and they'll see all the tape on his throwing limitations. I will tell you though its harder to put more then 1 spy on Riley in 5 wide flex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Chris Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Just now, FaithInIrish Forever said: I will tell you though its harder to put more then 1 spy on Riley in 5 wide flex Absolutely Faith, but it takes that one stud linebacker or safety to blow up his runs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithInIrish Forever Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 1 minute ago, Irish Chris said: Absolutely Faith, but it takes that one stud linebacker or safety to blow up his runs. It'll be interesting who we play who can do that probably USC but he is 6-4. Probably FSU. Louisville.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyskiND Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Great win today but what sucks about it is Riley Leonard will get credit for playing a great game which he did not. He SUCKKED throwing the ball downfield and couldn't t see open receivers. Mark my words. If Angeli starts the rest of the season ND doesn't lose. If Leonard does they do not make playoffs and Freeman is gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieAngel Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Until Leonard throws a TD pass it is tough for me to see him as the clear starter. You can’t have a one dimensional game and that is what we have with Leonard. Angelli had great touch on that 42 yarder coming in mostly cold. I like what Leonard brings as a runner but he hasn’t shown himself as a real passing threat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Run them both. Purdue was gased on D, A&M was gased on D, see a pattern here? This is so goddamn easy to figure out going back forever, run the the ball!! It is our strong suit why ignore it. Actually mix in some play action would be a boon too. Selling out to stop the run opens up play action passes, which don't have to be downfield bombs but can be huge chunk plays. Our offense is limited by our coaches moreso than our players IMO. If our D is up to snuff and rested, they can hang with anyone IMO. We shouldn't find ourselves down multiple scores needing basketball on grass type offense. If Freeman wants Tresselball, which we haven't run at all, then let's get an OC who understands this and play to our strengths that Tresselball would work great with. Michigan ran it last year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessemoore97 Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Faith and I discuss this almost every season and the stats absolutely bear out. When we run and out rush our opponent our win rate increases a lot. I wish I had the numbers breakdown, but it's close to a lock win the closer we get to 200 yards rushing or over in a game. We control the clock and the defense is fresh, every f'ing time. Winning is all that matters, who cares if we don't have pretty stats on offense. I like top 10 defensive stats better. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thand1 Posted September 15 Author Share Posted September 15 Opposing defenses have no reason to defend the field beyond 10 yards with Leonard at QB. Either Denbrock has to force Leonard to throw more downfield passes to open up the run or make a switch. It's a lot to ask Denbrock to develop a 2 QB offense at this point if it hasn't already been worked on but I do think it would be in the team's best interest. If defenses have no idea of when or if Angeli or Leonard will play, makes it tougher to defend ND. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGoldenDomer Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 Its almost like they should have just went this season with Minchey. He throws a better ball than both Leonard and Angeli and he's a better runner than Angeli. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltssb Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 This post was recognized by Mike! coltssb was awarded the badge 'Great Content' and 10 points. My question. And I’m trying to be fair here. Does ND beat Ohio State last year with Leonard? I honestly think both players-Hartman and Leonard are on the wrong side of ND teams. I think Hartman would have benefited a lot more with this team and Leonard would have benefited more on last years team. Thoughts? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InLikeFlynn Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 4 minutes ago, coltssb said: My question. And I’m trying to be fair here. Does ND beat Ohio State last year with Leonard? I honestly think both players-Hartman and Leonard are on the wrong side of ND teams. I think Hartman would have benefited a lot more with this team and Leonard would have benefited more on last years team. Thoughts? Thats an interesting question. Hard to tell but I would have loved to have seen Hartman with these receivers. I think last year's team with these receivers is a much more solid offense. I think with Leonard's skill set, they may have won that game against OSU last year but then again, they should have won it with Hartman 🙂. On the flip side, I could also see a scenario where they get blown out too. Hard to answer these questions but it's a good one for sure 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InLikeFlynn Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 On 9/14/2024 at 10:55 PM, bobbyskiND said: Great win today but what sucks about it is Riley Leonard will get credit for playing a great game which he did not. He SUCKKED throwing the ball downfield and couldn't t see open receivers. Mark my words. If Angeli starts the rest of the season ND doesn't lose. If Leonard does they do not make playoffs and Freeman is gone. Rushing Touchdowns and passing touchdowns are both 6 points. I agree that Riley had trouble throwing down field, but dude had 3 rushing touchdowns in the first half. No disrespect to Angeli, but I don't see a guarantee we go undefeated the rest of the way with him. He has played in pretty much all pressure free scenarios. I don't think we beat A&M week 1 with him at the helm personally. I like that they are riding Leonard because he is their guy. It is my opinion of course 🙂 GO IRISH! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldy Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 58 minutes ago, coltssb said: My question. And I’m trying to be fair here. Does ND beat Ohio State last year with Leonard? I honestly think both players-Hartman and Leonard are on the wrong side of ND teams. I think Hartman would have benefited a lot more with this team and Leonard would have benefited more on last years team. Thoughts? This is a great question! It sucks that we’ll never know, because I do think you’re right! Man, what if!? 😢😂 46 minutes ago, InLikeFlynn said: Rushing Touchdowns and passing touchdowns are both 6 points. I agree that Riley had trouble throwing down field, but dude had 3 rushing touchdowns in the first half. No disrespect to Angeli, but I don't see a guarantee we go undefeated the rest of the way with him. He has played in pretty much all pressure free scenarios. I don't think we beat A&M week 1 with him at the helm personally. I like that they are riding Leonard because he is their guy. It is my opinion of course 🙂 GO IRISH! I agree with your analysis on Angeli as well. When I saw Angeli take that first sack after holding the ball for too long, I knew right there that was the reason he wasn’t starting. The good thing was he didn’t make any bad decisions and made some great throws, but still, that can cause you to lose games because good teams will feast on that! But yes, ND needs to roll with Leonard the whole season because his rushing ability is too good to not play, and I feel it outweighs his inability to throw long. Short intermediate throws, with a few long ones when coverage allows. We also have two of the best RBs, so it should even out. 😜 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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