ND WR's have been terrible for 4 years

[Baldy]

1 hour ago, tneun89 said:

I should know better than to respond to this thread, but here goes...

The WRs have been fine this year. They are much, much better than last season. While nobody would confuse this group with Ohio State's, Oregon's, Alabama's, etc., they have been mostly good when given opportunities. The issue is Leonard has no confidence right now. He is a true one-read QB in that if his first option isn't open, he will try to run. He cannot (or will not) stay in the pocket and go through his progressions. This severely limits Denbrock's playcalling abilities (not to give him an out, I thought he was awful against NIU). You saw against Purdue and Miami (OH) that they've adjusted the playcalling to fit more Leonard's style. Get the ball out in 2-3 seconds, with most throws coming within 5-10 yards of the LOS. This is not a sustainable way to run an offense, but it's what the staff has to do as long as they stick with Leonard (a topic for a different thread, which I've been avoiding for the last month).

Back to the WRs, I'd argue they have been mostly good when given the opportunities to make plays. Judging any ND WR by their stats doesn't mean anything as long as Leonard is the QB. He's averaging less than 150 yards passing per game. Judge the WRs by their ability to make plays and help the offense...

Collins; ND's best WR. He's consistently made plays (A&M, Miami) when given opportunities. He is an alpha out there, and I think he's one of the true leaders of the offense. Maybe not a #1 on a Top 10 team, but he is certainly a good college WR with NFL potential. He's a freak athlete (widely reported that he smoked every other WR in summer camp testing), and he's made some good plays in limited chances through four games.

Greathouse: Probably the only one I agree with you on (minus the not-so-funny suggested name change...). I expected a lot more of him. I would have guessed he would be ND's leading receiver this year. His drop in the first half of the NIU game was obviously a killer. He's made some contested catches, but he has not shown up a whole bunch. Pretty disappointing sophomore year so far.

Faison: This is where you lost me. Faison was ND's best WR last year. He was pretty much the only dynamic playmaker in the group last year. Bowl game MVP. Not sure why you're discussion his injury history like it's an issue - he's missed two games in two years for a sprained ankle. He's still dynamic, and I'm hoping Denbrock finds a way to get him the ball in space on some tunnel screens, quick slants, etc. He's a homerun threat whenever he gets the ball.

Mitchell: Reports from fall camp are that he struggled with drops. We've seen that a few times this season, so I'd agree he's been disappointing. But I've been to 3 of the 4 games this year (missed Purdue), and he's been open. The underthrow in the NIU game was criminal, as he had an easy TD if Leonard puts the ball in the right place. I think he's coming on and expect him to be more of a factor moving forward.

Thomas: He was ND's 6th WR coming out of camp, and I think that's still true. He's made some nice plays in the passing game (a couple of crucial third down catches last game), but he's always been more of a threat blocking, which is not surprising.

Harrison: I expected more from him based on reports from fall camp. It seems like they are trying to get the ball in his hands close to LOS to get him in space to make a play. It hasn't happened yet. He had a great catch against Purdue, but ND picked him up from the portal primarily to handle kick return duties (he was an All American last year). Anything he can offer in the passing game is just a bonus.

Evans: You lost me again. He was All American caliber last year (did you watch the Ohio State and Duke games?), and he was a preseason All American this year. He is less than a year removed from a torn ACL. He will make a huge impact on the offense the rest of the season. Very confident in him. ND's next NFL TE.

I just don't think the WRs have been disappointing this year. Leonard has been really disappointing as a passer, but the WRs have helped him out and made some nice plays through four games. This is not a dynamic passing offense right now (and probably won't be any time this season), but there are some legit threats at WR if Leonard/Denbrock can find a way to get them the ball. I hope the Miami game (after the 1Q) is a step forward for Leonard. ND cannot beat Lousiville with a one-dimensional offense.

Great response, as always @tneun89, and 100% how I feel about this group now! 👏🏼

[NDLincPark]

1 hour ago, tneun89 said:

I should know better than to respond to this thread, but here goes...

The WRs have been fine this year. They are much, much better than last season. While nobody would confuse this group with Ohio State's, Oregon's, Alabama's, etc., they have been mostly good when given opportunities. The issue is Leonard has no confidence right now. He is a true one-read QB in that if his first option isn't open, he will try to run. He cannot (or will not) stay in the pocket and go through his progressions. This severely limits Denbrock's playcalling abilities (not to give him an out, I thought he was awful against NIU). You saw against Purdue and Miami (OH) that they've adjusted the playcalling to fit more Leonard's style. Get the ball out in 2-3 seconds, with most throws coming within 5-10 yards of the LOS. This is not a sustainable way to run an offense, but it's what the staff has to do as long as they stick with Leonard (a topic for a different thread, which I've been avoiding for the last month).

Back to the WRs, I'd argue they have been mostly good when given the opportunities to make plays. Judging any ND WR by their stats doesn't mean anything as long as Leonard is the QB. He's averaging less than 150 yards passing per game. Judge the WRs by their ability to make plays and help the offense...

Collins; ND's best WR. He's consistently made plays (A&M, Miami) when given opportunities. He is an alpha out there, and I think he's one of the true leaders of the offense. Maybe not a #1 on a Top 10 team, but he is certainly a good college WR with NFL potential. He's a freak athlete (widely reported that he smoked every other WR in summer camp testing), and he's made some good plays in limited chances through four games.

Greathouse: Probably the only one I agree with you on (minus the not-so-funny suggested name change...). I expected a lot more of him. I would have guessed he would be ND's leading receiver this year. His drop in the first half of the NIU game was obviously a killer. He's made some contested catches, but he has not shown up a whole bunch. Pretty disappointing sophomore year so far.

Faison: This is where you lost me. Faison was ND's best WR last year. He was pretty much the only dynamic playmaker in the group last year. Bowl game MVP. Not sure why you're discussion his injury history like it's an issue - he's missed two games in two years for a sprained ankle. He's still dynamic, and I'm hoping Denbrock finds a way to get him the ball in space on some tunnel screens, quick slants, etc. He's a homerun threat whenever he gets the ball.

Mitchell: Reports from fall camp are that he struggled with drops. We've seen that a few times this season, so I'd agree he's been disappointing. But I've been to 3 of the 4 games this year (missed Purdue), and he's been open. The underthrow in the NIU game was criminal, as he had an easy TD if Leonard puts the ball in the right place. I think he's coming on and expect him to be more of a factor moving forward.

Thomas: He was ND's 6th WR coming out of camp, and I think that's still true. He's made some nice plays in the passing game (a couple of crucial third down catches last game), but he's always been more of a threat blocking, which is not surprising.

Harrison: I expected more from him based on reports from fall camp. It seems like they are trying to get the ball in his hands close to LOS to get him in space to make a play. It hasn't happened yet. He had a great catch against Purdue, but ND picked him up from the portal primarily to handle kick return duties (he was an All American last year). Anything he can offer in the passing game is just a bonus.

Evans: You lost me again. He was All American caliber last year (did you watch the Ohio State and Duke games?), and he was a preseason All American this year. He is less than a year removed from a torn ACL. He will make a huge impact on the offense the rest of the season. Very confident in him. ND's next NFL TE.

I just don't think the WRs have been disappointing this year. Leonard has been really disappointing as a passer, but the WRs have helped him out and made some nice plays through four games. This is not a dynamic passing offense right now (and probably won't be any time this season), but there are some legit threats at WR if Leonard/Denbrock can find a way to get them the ball. I hope the Miami game (after the 1Q) is a step forward for Leonard. ND cannot beat Lousiville with a one-dimensional offense.

 

Faison was a 2 Star Recruit - you can see why.  He was their best WR last year?  He had 15 catches at 207 yards in 6 regular season games..hahah

Evans was a lumbering 3 star recruit who has been invisible this year 

Collins is a massively underperforming rental, who Clemson was not sorry to see leave 

Mitchell was a 1 star nobody

Greathouse -  a sought after recruit who is no better than Mitchell 

 

[brian_nd88]

3 hours ago, NDLincPark said:

He doesnt play - have you not been watching?  That is how comically bad he is...he is just a practice squad loser

How pathetic that you see fit to call a twenty something who cares about Notre Dame and came in trying to succeed.  What were your stats at Notre Dame in any sport?  You sound like a bitter forty-year old whose life has passed him by and realized that he does not have much to show for it.  

[tneun89]

1 hour ago, NDLincPark said:

 

Faison was a 2 Star Recruit - you can see why.  He was their best WR last year?  He had 15 catches at 207 yards in 6 regular season games..hahah

Evans was a lumbering 3 star recruit who has been invisible this year 

Collins is a massively underperforming rental, who Clemson was not sorry to see leave 

Mitchell was a 1 star nobody

Greathouse -  a sought after recruit who is no better than Mitchell 

 

I don't understand what recruiting rankings have to do with anything. Is Jordan Johnson a better WR than Jordan Faison because Johnson was a 5-star and Faison was a lacrosse recruit? No. 

And why aren't you including Faison's bowl stats? He finished the season with 19 catches for 322 yards and 4 TDs (more than any other WR, despite playing half the games). Seems like you might have an agenda...

Again, Mitchell Evans was a consensus preseason All American who is widely regarded as one of the top TE prospects in the upcoming NFL Draft. Not sure what his recruiting ranking has to do with anything.

How is Collins massively underperforming? He's ND's leading receiver, and he's made key plays in almost every game. He had a huge first down catch on ND's game winning drive at A&M. He had a really nice TD catch last week against Miami. So, how exactly is he underperforming? 

[NDLincPark]

The only good WR they had last year transfered after his Freshman year, because of the black hole of ND QBs

 

[NDLincPark]

There is not a single ND WR on an NFL 53 man active roster, and the ND fan boys think they have been churning out quality WRs for the last 10+ years. 

St Brown - Practice Squad

Boykin - Practice Squad 

Claypool - Free Agent 

Skowronek - Not on active roster/Not really a ND player anyway 

 

Edited September 24 by NDLincPark

[InLikeFlynn]

14 hours ago, NDLincPark said:

There is not a single ND WR on an NFL 53 man active roster, and the ND fan boys think they have been churning out quality WRs for the last 10+ years. 

St Brown - Practice Squad

Boykin - Practice Squad 

Claypool - Free Agent 

Skowronek - Not on active roster/Not really a ND player anyway 

 

I'm not sure I read many posts on here where fans have said many positive things in regard to our WRs in the NFL but I will say, we do have some good players in that room.  You really can't have it both ways.  Are you blaming Leonard's throwing or the WRs?  or are they really that bad yet defenses don't ignore them to completely stop our run game?  In the end, we are fans and its natural to think guys are better than they are maybe but that's the fun of fandom.  To say these guys are trash at the college level is a little off base though in my opinion.  Would they start for OSU or Bama, maybe not, but ND isn't OSU or Bama.  They are who they are.  

LETS GO IRISH!

[Baldy]

4 hours ago, InLikeFlynn said:

I'm not sure I read many posts on here where fans have said many positive things in regard to our WRs in the NFL but I will say, we do have some good players in that room.  You really can't have it both ways.  Are you blaming Leonard's throwing or the WRs?  or are they really that bad yet defenses don't ignore them to completely stop our run game?  In the end, we are fans and its natural to think guys are better than they are maybe but that's the fun of fandom.  To say these guys are trash at the college level is a little off base though in my opinion.  Would they start for OSU or Bama, maybe not, but ND isn't OSU or Bama.  They are who they are.  

LETS GO IRISH!

I could not agree more!

Go Irish!!!

[Baldy]

I’m trying to be as nice as possible @NDLincPark, but your analysis is quite off with the WRs, as others have pointed out.

You must feel vindicated that you were right about Leonard, but that doesn’t mean you’re right about the receivers! They really do depend on having a good QB, and since they don’t, how could anyone actually know?

Or do we just have to trust your expert knowledge here? 😜😂

[FaithInIrish Forever]

1 minute ago, Baldy said:

I’m trying to be as nice as possible @NDLincPark, but your analysis is quite off with the WRs, as others have pointed out.

You must feel vindicated that you were right about Leonard, but that doesn’t mean you’re right about the receivers! They really do depend on having a good QB, and since they don’t, how could anyone actually know?

Or do we just have to trust your expert knowledge here? 😜😂

I've now completed three quarters of my deep dive on the offense from the Miami Ohio. As long as Denbock calls plays that Leonard releases the ball quickly,, they'll be fine.

[InLikeFlynn]

1 hour ago, FaithInIrish Forever said:

I've now completed three quarters of my deep dive on the offense from the Miami Ohio. As long as Denbock calls plays that Leonard releases the ball quickly,, they'll be fine.

I am sure he can find a way throw in some deep balls and get the play action game going as well.  I cant wait for Saturday!

GO IRISH!!

[FaithInIrish Forever]

Look at this switch release concept @NDLincPark 1 draws 2 and 1 draws 0 because they crossed paths and confused the defenders.

 

[coltssb]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:44 AM, FaithInIrish Forever said:

Look at this switch release concept @NDLincPark 1 draws 2 and 1 draws 0 because they crossed paths and confused the defenders.

 

I still think Harrison scores on that play if he just tries to do one juke. That guys knee was tweaked and after he used his adrenalin to make the tackle he laid there for a few minutes with the training staff tending to him. 
As for the receivers, I agree with NDlinc.  They have average wr’s in the past. Serviceable as a 2 or three but zero number 1 guys. As for this year, I don’t blame the receivers as much as Leonard just missing them open or missing the throws. But he’s starting to get better so we’ll see where that goes. 

[brian_nd88]

2 hours ago, coltssb said:

I still think Harrison scores on that play if he just tries to do one juke. That guys knee was tweaked and after he used his adrenalin to make the tackle he laid there for a few minutes with the training staff tending to him. 
As for the receivers, I agree with NDlinc.  They have average wr’s in the past. Serviceable as a 2 or three but zero number 1 guys. As for this year, I don’t blame the receivers as much as Leonard just missing them open or missing the throws. But he’s starting to get better so we’ll see where that goes. 

It's probably a combination.  I think Collins dropped 2 catches last game that he should have made.  Maybe one he needed to make some adjustment to catch.  The receivers aren't getting to much separation, which I would expect from Mitchell and Harrison at this point if they have any potential.  

[Jburkdd12]

2 hours ago, brian_nd88 said:

It's probably a combination.  I think Collins dropped 2 catches last game that he should have made.  Maybe one he needed to make some adjustment to catch.  The receivers aren't getting to much separation, which I would expect from Mitchell and Harrison at this point if they have any potential.  

Need to figure out the reciever position. We will be wasting Minchey and Carr if we don't