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comment_756651

Were you there?

I was. There’s no comparison in what Holtz did taking over from Faust to Freeman taking over Kelly.
 

If there is a plausible comparison, it is Faust taking over from Devine.
 

We could parse the comparisons, but from my “I was there” eye test, this feels an awful lot like Faust.

I wish I was hopeful, but college head coaching experience is a long learning curve and we not only don’t have that, but it’s pretty clear that Kelly was the de facto Offensive Coordinator. 

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comment_756652
8 minutes ago, Frankus said:

Were you there?

I was. There’s no comparison in what Holtz did taking over from Faust to Freeman taking over Kelly.
 

If there is a plausible comparison, it is Faust taking over from Devine.
 

We could parse the comparisons, but from my “I was there” eye test, this feels an awful lot like Faust.

I wish I was hopeful, but college head coaching experience is a long learning curve and we not only don’t have that, but it’s pretty clear that Kelly was the de facto Offensive Coordinator. 

feel free to feel any way you want. I just telling you my truth.

comment_756658
1 hour ago, FaithInIrishForever said:

feel free to feel any way you want. I just telling you my truth.

Your truth is that you think Freeman is going to have Lou Holtz like results at Notre Dame? 

comment_756660

a side note before my thoughts, dealing with language that is just a pet peeve….

@FaithInIrishForever I love you, but respectfully I have to take issue with the term “my truth.”  Truth and reality are not subjective.  Otherwise my truth would be that ND won yesterday.  Sadly, that’s not THE truth.  That said..

it is certainly THE truth that Holtz had a bad first season and that a bad first season does not preclude future greatness.  It’s also true that the situation was different in many ways.

it is also THE truth that a strong first season doesn’t mean greatness will happen.  See Weis, Charlie or Willingham, Ty.  Remember how great we felt when Weis started?  

Conclusion:  while this season is ugly, it’s too soon to know what the future will bring.  Some will be optimistic.  Some will not.  Nobody here is the authority about anything other than their own opinions, rather than a multiverse of simultaneous and conflicting truths.

comment_756661

ND also went 5-6 the year before. I’ve seen this argument with Kelly, but ND was also coming off a 6-6 year prior to his arrival. 
 

This team won 10+ in 5 straight seasons, came off a Fiesta Bowl appearance, was ranked in the top 5 in the preseason and according to 247, has top ten talent. Those guys would dream of coming into the situation Freeman has lucked into. 

comment_756664

I agree with the 2nd part. Freeman has until year 2. I'll give him a rookie pass this year as long as the wheels don't fall off or he commits some atrocity like killing a student.

 

If they don't mount a campaign next year that passes the eye test (competitive, consistent play) then I see no problem giving him the hook and getting someone else. 

comment_756667
15 minutes ago, JTennant said:

I agree with the 2nd part. Freeman has until year 2. I'll give him a rookie pass this year as long as the wheels don't fall off or he commits some atrocity like killing a student.

 

If they don't mount a campaign next year that passes the eye test (competitive, consistent play) then I see no problem giving him the hook and getting someone else. 

this is my reality, too... good post.

comment_756716
19 hours ago, ndomer4 said:

ND also went 5-6 the year before. I’ve seen this argument with Kelly, but ND was also coming off a 6-6 year prior to his arrival. 
 

This team won 10+ in 5 straight seasons, came off a Fiesta Bowl appearance, was ranked in the top 5 in the preseason and according to 247, has top ten talent. Those guys would dream of coming into the situation Freeman has lucked into. 

Kelly inherited a group of players who were the core of the 2012 season many who went on to at least decent NFL careers.

If ND has Top 10 talent, then why are so many people bashing the talent of the current team's WRs, LBs, QBs, OL, and maybe even the DBs? If the roster is so great, why do many people think the best WR, OL, and LB talent are true freshmen or sophomores?

The Freeman value proposition was that he was a very good to excellent relentless recruiter and a first time HC with success as a DC who would need to learn to be a HC. In my opinion, this season so far has not changed that at all. 

Also, given that a very good HC who was a lazy recruiter could not win a NC in 12 years at ND, I am willing to see if improved recruiting is what is needed for ND to win a NC. In any case, 3+ years of better recruiting will at least give the next HC something to work with.

comment_756726
1 hour ago, jbrown_9999 said:

Kelly inherited a group of players who were the core of the 2012 season many who went on to at least decent NFL careers.

If ND has Top 10 talent, then why are so many people bashing the talent of the current team's WRs, LBs, QBs, OL, and maybe even the DBs? If the roster is so great, why do many people think the best WR, OL, and LB talent are true freshmen or sophomores?

The Freeman value proposition was that he was a very good to excellent relentless recruiter and a first time HC with success as a DC who would need to learn to be a HC. In my opinion, this season so far has not changed that at all. 

Also, given that a very good HC who was a lazy recruiter could not win a NC in 12 years at ND, I am willing to see if improved recruiting is what is needed for ND to win a NC. In any case, 3+ years of better recruiting will at least give the next HC something to work with.

Many great points, the only one where I will push back is the talent. Go look at the 247 talent composite rankings. How are the teams around ND doing? Have they lost to teams around the hundreds in talent, at home? The portal has hurt ND, but how much higher will Freeman get ND? Maybe number 5? If he can’t beat teams with that big of a gap, what’s a few more 4 and 5 stars going to do? I hope he improves drastically, but I’ve seen this movie before and Freeman doesn’t have the traits most great coaches have. 
 

247 is pretty accurate with their rankings. The top schools in their rankings are almost indicative of the top 25. The fact we aren’t close to our talent ranking tells me it’s coaching and development. Kelly had the team playing at their talent level for the past 5 years. 
 

If all those position groups are littered with 4 star talent, then it must be coaching and development. That means taking a look at Balis and all the coaches. 

comment_756727
10 minutes ago, ndomer4 said:

Many great points, the only one where I will push back is the talent. Go look at the 247 talent composite rankings. How are the teams around ND doing? Have they lost to teams around the hundreds in talent, at home? The portal has hurt ND, but how much higher will Freeman get ND? Maybe number 5? If he can’t beat teams with that big of a gap, what’s a few more 4 and 5 stars going to do? I hope he improves drastically, but I’ve seen this movie before and Freeman doesn’t have the traits most great coaches have. 
 

247 is pretty accurate with their rankings. The top schools in their rankings are almost indicative of the top 25. The fact we aren’t close to our talent ranking tells me it’s coaching and development. Kelly had the team playing at their talent level for the past 5 years. 
 

If all those position groups are littered with 4 star talent, then it must be coaching and development. That means taking a look at Balis and all the coaches. 

I agree with both you and Jbrowns assessment. However, look at the 2019 and the 2020 classes because that’s pretty much your seniors and starters right now. They were both 15th according to 247. Add to the fact that those higher recruits are four stars with the lone borderline 5 star is now at Missouri in Johnson. Now go look some more and a 4th of those guys are either gone, transferred, or in the NFL. Equate those two classes and now they no longer look like 15th ranked classes but more like 20–25th ranked classes. NOT a star studded roster that people thought was going to be the case. 
Look at the wide receiver group alone as an town pointed out. Look at the qb situation. Not justifying that crap from Saturday but Stanford had a high grade qb that could be NFL ready. ND can not say that right now. 
My point, ND talent is not where they need to be based on shyt recruiting classes from 2019 and 2020 classes. Hence, why Kelly brought in Coan and Skoranek. Why ND was doing everything they could to get a transfer wide receiver. Their offense is terrible. It is. That BYU game was fools gold. I listened to BYU’s podcast and their players on Twitter. They thought they were going to get blown out worse by ND. They knew they had no answer for Mayer. Shaw did. He even commented on that at halftime saying they are doubling Mayer and will continue to do so. They knew/know Pyne looks at Mayer as the first, third, and fourth option. Not good offense overall. That’s why running the ball is so imperative for this team to survive from here on out. They aren’t good enough on offense. It’s also why guys like Lewis, Brown, Griffin, and if not for injury probably Bertrand to be passed up on the depth chart. They aren’t great. But the defense isn’t the problem right now. It’s the offense and the lack of talent left behind by the last regime that is the problem. Expect another loss soon. 

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