November 9, 20213 yr Wow, that is a HUGE difference. I still do not understand why they seemed to go back to the early offensive gameplan for Navy, but Coan really does well when he gets the ball out quick and does not have to sit in the pocket.
November 9, 20213 yr I think it's simply that the OL has settled. Coan is a pocket passer. And he finally has a pocket.
November 9, 20213 yr 31 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said: I think it's simply that the OL has settled. Coan is a pocket passer. And he finally has a pocket. Hasn't ND started playing much weaker defenses as well? So maybe just the level of competition has changed?
November 9, 20213 yr 28 minutes ago, jbrown_9999 said: Hasn't ND started playing much weaker defenses as well? So maybe just the level of competition has changed? Perhaps a little, but USC and UNC both have athletes. Don't get me wrong, Cinci and Wiscy have good Ds, but it's more than that. We went "big" on the OL the last 4 or 5 games, and we've looked better and better. More big/power, less cute/finesse, and it's turned things around. Pretty sure what we've seen from Coan and the OL the last couple games is what BK and TR envisioned from the start. And the OL was just plain bad early. If we played Cinci again right now, I'd take us by 10-14 points. And just to be clear... I'm not saying we're elite now. Just that the OL was awful early, and impacted the O big time. I also think the D is starting to play better in the new scheme. Not saying they are great either, but simply more comfortable in what they're asked to do.
November 9, 20213 yr 6 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said: Perhaps a little, but USC and UNC both have athletes. Don't get me wrong, Cinci and Wiscy have good Ds, but it's more than that. We went "big" on the OL the last 4 or 5 games, and we've looked better and better. More big/power, less cute/finesse, and it's turned things around. Pretty sure what we've seen from Coan and the OL the last couple games is what BK and TR envisioned from the start. And the OL was just plain bad early. If we played Cinci again right now, I'd take us by 10-14 points. And just to be clear... I'm not saying we're elite now. Just that the OL was awful early, and impacted the O big time. I also think the D is starting to play better in the new scheme. Not saying they are great either, but simply more comfortable in what they're asked to do. Here are team defensive ranking for Yards per Play. Given that there are 130 teams, just so happens that the last three games have been against the worst defenses they have seen so far. So O's success must be taken with a grain of salt. Good news is that the next defenses are even worse so O should continue to do better than before. 49 FSU 19 Toledo 52 Purdue 1 Wisconsin 6 Cincinnati 66 Virginia Tech 101 Southern Cal 90 UNC 93 Navy 119 Virginia 105 Georgia Tech 102 Stanford Edited November 9, 20213 yr by jbrown_9999
November 9, 20213 yr Author 1 hour ago, jbrown_9999 said: Here are team defensive ranking for Yards per Play. Given that there are 130 teams, just so happens that the last three games have been against the worst defenses they have seen so far. So O's success must be taken with a grain of salt. Good news is that the next defenses are even worse so O should continue to do better than before. 49 FSU 19 Toledo 52 Purdue 1 Wisconsin 6 Cincinnati 66 Virginia Tech 101 Southern Cal 90 UNC 93 Navy 119 Virginia 105 Georgia Tech 102 Stanford Stats like this make DomerDomain great! Check out this analysis @Mike! So by those Stats ND's offense should get even better over the next two weeks and then level off a bit vs Stanford
November 9, 20213 yr 10 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said: Perhaps a little, but USC and UNC both have athletes. Don't get me wrong, Cinci and Wiscy have good Ds, but it's more than that. We went "big" on the OL the last 4 or 5 games, and we've looked better and better. More big/power, less cute/finesse, and it's turned things around. Pretty sure what we've seen from Coan and the OL the last couple games is what BK and TR envisioned from the start. And the OL was just plain bad early. If we played Cinci again right now, I'd take us by 10-14 points. And just to be clear... I'm not saying we're elite now. Just that the OL was awful early, and impacted the O big time. I also think the D is starting to play better in the new scheme. Not saying they are great either, but simply more comfortable in what they're asked to do. I’m going to disagree a little on the o-line. Are they playing a little better? Yes, but they are still not good. Technique is awful but they are at least getting a body on a body and somewhat staying with it. Can they drive anybody off the line. No way. i think the turn around has everything to do with Rees taking the bye week to do self reflecting/analyzing/scouting of the offense and emphasizing the things that will help hide the deficiencies of the oline, highlight the playmakers, and the things coan does well. IMO if we were still running the style of offense we did in the first 6 games, most would still be complaining about coan and the oline. Rees deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround. Hopefully Rees and Kelly realize a change at oline coach is much needed.
November 9, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, Domers23 said: IMO if we were still running the style of offense we did in the first 6 games, most would still be complaining about coan and the oline. Rees deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround. Hopefully Rees and Kelly realize a change at oline coach is much needed. I agree with this. The hurry-up, in combination with the play calling, has allowed Coan to be more successful. Quick throws, shorter patterns (unless we see an advantage in the coverage), has allowed ND to be more successful and put less pressure on an average O-Line. UNC is horrific on defense, and so does UVA this week.
November 9, 20213 yr Kristofic and Alt. I imagine we beat Cinci if they start. I also wonder if he started the year injured? He refused to move at the start of the year, now he is at least moving in the pocket and buying time. Edited November 9, 20213 yr by ndomer4
November 9, 20213 yr Author 16 hours ago, NDhoosier said: Wow, that is a HUGE difference. I still do not understand why they seemed to go back to the early offensive gameplan for Navy, but Coan really does well when he gets the ball out quick and does not have to sit in the pocket. I know why and still don't agree with it. Here's the reasoning. I'm going to argue against myself and you tell me which one you would choose. Again I'm actually in the middle and that what makes planning for NAVY so hard If we throw longer passes we score faster, if we score faster we get more possessions. If we get more possessions we score more points. If we score more points we win the game. Short passes are bad because they require more plays to score. If we get stopped in the redzone after a 6 minute drive of short passes that 3 points took twice as long as 2 longer passes and 3 points Here's the counter to that argument. Long passes have lower completion percentages, Lower completion percentages means more incompletions. More incompletions mean more punting. They also lead to more times the clock stops more. Navy gets more time. The ONLY WAY NAVY CAN BEAT YOU IS WITH MORE TIME. Running the ball is bad unless it results in a first down to stop the clock
November 9, 20213 yr 33 minutes ago, FaithInIrishForever said: I know why and still don't agree with it. Here's the reasoning. I'm going to argue against myself and you tell me which one you would choose. Again I'm actually in the middle and that what makes planning for NAVY so hard If we throw longer passes we score faster, if we score faster we get more possessions. If we get more possessions we score more points. If we score more points we win the game. Short passes are bad because they require more plays to score. If we get stopped in the redzone after a 6 minute drive of short passes that 3 points took twice as long as 2 longer passes and 3 points Here's the counter to that argument. Long passes have lower completion percentages, Lower completion percentages means more incompletions. More incompletions mean more punting. They also lead to more times the clock stops more. Navy gets more time. The ONLY WAY NAVY CAN BEAT YOU IS WITH MORE TIME. Running the ball is bad unless it results in a first down to stop the clock Navy wins by controlling the clock. The more time they have the ball, the more the defense starts to tire which leads to Navy getting more yards and keeping the defense on the field. If ND scores quickly, the defense has no chance to rest. This adds to what is mentioned above. Unless ND has one of those games where they are absolutely stuffing the option, then you do not want to score quickly. No question.
November 9, 20213 yr Author Just now, IrishGuy said: Navy wins by controlling the clock. The more time they have the ball, the more the defense starts to tire which leads to Navy getting more yards and keeping the defense on the field. If ND scores quickly, the defense has no chance to rest. This adds to what is mentioned above. Unless ND has one of those games where they are absolutely stuffing the option, then you do not want to score quickly. No question. Yep its such a hard decision because if you don't score quickly the game usually is close. My choice of strategy would depend on the quality of my defense. If I thought I could NOT stop Navy, then Bombs away. If I had Kelly's defense and Kyren Williams/Tyler Buchner I think I'd run the option(RPO) right back at them, force them in to more cover 1 and let Tyler bust more man to man coverage once Kyren ran the ball to mid-field.
November 10, 20213 yr 12 hours ago, jbrown_9999 said: Here are team defensive ranking for Yards per Play. Given that there are 130 teams, just so happens that the last three games have been against the worst defenses they have seen so far. So O's success must be taken with a grain of salt. Good news is that the next defenses are even worse so O should continue to do better than before. 49 FSU 19 Toledo 52 Purdue 1 Wisconsin 6 Cincinnati 66 Virginia Tech 101 Southern Cal 90 UNC 93 Navy 119 Virginia 105 Georgia Tech 102 Stanford Like I said, I stressed that we're not elite. But there is a considerable difference in OL play lately. You can see they are gelling and not making near the mistakes they did previously. Still a few dumb penalties, but much better cohesion. A lot less whiffs and ole's. And while you can point to our SoS from a opponent defense perspective, you also have to take note we pounded the #1 team (Wisconsin) and put up 41 on them. And I'd recommend following Football Outsiders. Our break down of OL areas were atrocious early. Still not great in some areas, but considerable progress lately. Overall, I think we'll end up being a paper tiger at the end of the year. One loss team who played a bunch of mediocre to bad teams, and a couple good, not great teams.
November 10, 20213 yr 9 hours ago, Domers23 said: I’m going to disagree a little on the o-line. Are they playing a little better? Yes, but they are still not good. Technique is awful but they are at least getting a body on a body and somewhat staying with it. Can they drive anybody off the line. No way. i think the turn around has everything to do with Rees taking the bye week to do self reflecting/analyzing/scouting of the offense and emphasizing the things that will help hide the deficiencies of the oline, highlight the playmakers, and the things coan does well. IMO if we were still running the style of offense we did in the first 6 games, most would still be complaining about coan and the oline. Rees deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround. Hopefully Rees and Kelly realize a change at oline coach is much needed. I agree Rees deserves a lot of credit. The OL being atrocious to start the year wasn't in plan lol. But I disagree on OL improvement. Yes, technique still lacks, but we've also got a true frosh playing LT, and several guys playing different positions than originally thought. It's been musical chairs and things are starting to settle. And Alt was arguably the least heralded OL we've taken in the last couple cycles (outside the top 400), and he's playing the most critical position, and doing well given the situation. And don't underestimate a body-on-a-body.... Like I said, we've went more power/man, and it's paid off. Yes, it's hiding weaknesses like technique and youth, but it's letting guys be more raw and less finesse.
November 10, 20213 yr 5 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said: I agree Rees deserves a lot of credit. The OL being atrocious to start the year wasn't in plan lol. But I disagree on OL improvement. Yes, technique still lacks, but we've also got a true frosh playing LT, and several guys playing different positions than originally thought. It's been musical chairs and things are starting to settle. And Alt was arguably the least heralded OL we've taken in the last couple cycles (outside the top 400), and he's playing the most critical position, and doing well given the situation. And don't underestimate a body-on-a-body.... Like I said, we've went more power/man, and it's paid off. Yes, it's hiding weaknesses like technique and youth, but it's letting guys be more raw and less finesse. Yes, Alt deserves a ton of praise for stepping up, given that, as you said he was the least heralded OL recruit. Bodes well for next season, Alt slides over to RT, Blake Fisher returns to LT, Rocco and Kristofic man the guard positions and I hope Zeke C is a better center than he is a guard.
November 10, 20213 yr 12 hours ago, OKelleyIrish said: And while you can point to our SoS from a opponent defense perspective, you also have to take note we pounded the #1 team (Wisconsin) and put up 41 on them. Pounded? ND was losing 13-10 early in the 4th quarter and 21 of the 41 points (more than half) were due to a kickoff return and two pick-sixes. ND only had 242 total yards and averaged 3.5 yards per play. ND's defense saved the Irish by getting 5 turn-overs. Edited November 10, 20213 yr by jbrown_9999
November 10, 20213 yr 8 hours ago, jimbo said: Yes, Alt deserves a ton of praise for stepping up, given that, as you said he was the least heralded OL recruit. Bodes well for next season, Alt slides over to RT, Blake Fisher returns to LT, Rocco and Kristofic man the guard positions and I hope Zeke C is a better center than he is a guard. And Patterson still might return for another year!
November 10, 20213 yr 10 hours ago, jimbo said: Yes, Alt deserves a ton of praise for stepping up, given that, as you said he was the least heralded OL recruit. Bodes well for next season, Alt slides over to RT, Blake Fisher returns to LT, Rocco and Kristofic man the guard positions and I hope Zeke C is a better center than he is a guard. I like the future of the OL frankly. Fisher, Alt, Baker, Spindler... all pups.
November 10, 20213 yr 4 hours ago, jbrown_9999 said: Pounded? ND was losing 13-10 early in the 4th quarter and 21 of the 41 points (more than half) were due to a kickoff return and two pick-sixes. ND only had 242 total yards and averaged 3.5 yards per play. ND's defense saved the Irish by getting 5 turn-overs. Wiscy averages/allows 159 passing yards per game and 0.78 passing TDs per game. We had 239 yards (80 yards over average), and 2 passing TDs. We put up 20 offensive points total which they allow on average around 15. IIRC, only scUM had more passing success, and it was just barely, and because of a 50+ yard TD McCarthy threw (his only pass of the game). scUM's D actually was a huge part of their success over Wiscy too. But they ran the ball better than us. Pounded in the pure sense of our O vs their D was a poor choice of words. Pounded in the sense the final score, and pounded in the sense we performed well over average vs Wiscy's D average is more accurate.
November 10, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, OKelleyIrish said: Wiscy averages/allows 159 passing yards per game and 0.78 passing TDs per game. We had 239 yards (80 yards over average), and 2 passing TDs. We put up 20 offensive points total which they allow on average around 15. IIRC, only scUM had more passing success, and it was just barely, and because of a 50+ yard TD McCarthy threw (his only pass of the game). scUM's D actually was a huge part of their success over Wiscy too. But they ran the ball better than us. Pounded in the pure sense of our O vs their D was a poor choice of words. Pounded in the sense the final score, and pounded in the sense we performed well over average vs Wiscy's D average is more accurate. Not sure why you cherry-picked just the passing yards to try to make your point. Perhaps you wanted to ignore ND only having 3 rushing yards in that game? In fact ND had more yards from KO and Interception returns (278) than total offensive yards (242). Wisconsin is giving up 214 total yards a game so ND's 242 total yards was only 28 yards more than average. Only rushing for 3 yards after giving up 6 sacks doesn't scream ND's O "pounding" on the Badger D to me. ND's O greatly benefitted from 4 interceptions and a fumble that the Irish D forced. I will give you that on the scoreboard, ND "pounded" Wisconsin but, IMO, it was the Irish D and ST which did the pounding (& won the game) not the O.
GOOD LATELY.. THOUGHTS?