I don't really see what the coaching staff seems to see in him.

He is a strong athletic kid who has good foot speed, but he doesn't seem to be twitchy enough to be a gadget guy.

Hoping he can be a #1 QB at some point, but I don't think he's getting the instruction and leadership he needs. He's thrown how many passes in 5 games? 

Not sure we can judge the kid just yet with the OL he's working behind. 

Absolutely not ready, but not hanging a Hendrix sign on him yet.

5 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

Not sure we can judge the kid just yet with the OL he's working behind. 

Absolutely not ready, but not hanging a Hendrix sign on him yet.

I hear ya. I bet he's a better QB then Andrew Hendrix, but my post was more or less at the coaching staff who's probably not going to develop him to be a polished passer/true dual threat. 

Unless something drastic happens that hasn't happened at ND in the last 11 seasons, his talents are going to be mis-used and essentially wasted. 

That’s Dr. Andrew Hendrix…

7 minutes ago, JTennant said:

I hear ya. I bet he's a better QB then Andrew Hendrix, but my post was more or less at the coaching staff who's probably not going to develop him to be a polished passer/true dual threat. 

Unless something drastic happens that hasn't happened at ND in the last 11 seasons, his talents are going to be mis-used and essentially wasted. 

I think ND has a QB conundrum. 

IMO they thought the OL would be a lot better, so expected Coan to be able to operate as a pocket passer. And that's where they spent most of the time pre-season.

And it's pretty clear they wanted Buchner to be a package guy to get him ready for next year.

Then the OL sucked, and they're faced with abandoning their strategy because they need someone that's more mobile and knows the system (Pyne). But Pyne is more or less number 3 for a reason, because his ceiling is just not high. 

Ugly situation.

Buchner equals who knows. He's not ready. What he's done so far doesn't preclude him from being great later. IMO.

31 minutes ago, OKelleyIrish said:

I think ND has a QB conundrum. 

IMO they thought the OL would be a lot better, so expected Coan to be able to operate as a pocket passer. And that's where they spent most of the time pre-season.

And it's pretty clear they wanted Buchner to be a package guy to get him ready for next year.

Then the OL sucked, and they're faced with abandoning their strategy because they need someone that's more mobile and knows the system (Pyne). But Pyne is more or less number 3 for a reason, because his ceiling is just not high. 

Ugly situation.

Yes you've echoed what I've said in 2 other threads.

This is more a knock of the coaching staff than Buchner. 

They should have self evaluated better and adjusted the scheme. 

Square peg round hole once again. Now let's see how far this team falls. I think 2014 team fell apart after their 2nd loss to Arizona State.

Edited October 2, 20213 yr by JTennant

6 minutes ago, JTennant said:

Yes you've echoed what I've said in 2 other threads.

This is more a knock of the coaching staff than Buchner. 

They should have self evaluated better and adjusted the scheme. 

Square peg round hole once again. Now let's see how far this team falls. I think 2014 team fell apart after their 2nd loss to Arizona State.

Why does this keep happening?  Hendrix, Wimbush, Zaire. Maybe Buchner?  Too early to say that about him yet but has the look of that type of qb. Are we recruiting that type because bK wants a different look?  He mentioned it’s hard to coach similar guys or get them ready if they are all the same protype. Maybe that’s the problem right there?  No established qb system?

Hendrix had no talent and was mental.  Buchner is just a baby qb.  He needs time, but he has tons of talent.  Rees is calling shitty plays for him.

9 minutes ago, JTennant said:

Yes you've echoed what I've said in 2 other threads.

This is more a knock of the coaching staff than Buchner. 

They should have self evaluated better and adjusted the scheme. 

Square peg round hole once again. Now let's see how far this team falls. I think 2014 team fell apart after their 2nd loss to Arizona State.

To me, they simply overestimated the OL. 

I don't think there's a good answer to the problem right now.

And I'm not sure there was a good answer earlier (unless that answer was replacing Quinn after last season, or bringing in another QB)..

I just don't think any of our QBs would have been an answer behind this OL. Perhaps a little better prepared, but not much different. 

Buchner is a much better athlete but I see the same skittishness and awkward movement around the pocket. 
 

I heard they messed with his throwing motion… never mess with a throwing motion. There are a ton of successful qbs with non traditional motions. If he was short and threw side arm I get it, but If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The guy has probably been throwing that way his entire life and I don’t like the way the ball comes out of his hand right now. 

Buchner hadn’t played a meaningful snap in a game in two years, let’s back off that a little bit. Regardless, Pyne needs to be the starter. Coan will absolutely lose them at least 2 more games

Boggles my mind that ND can’t find a decent QB. Or maybe they do and the staff just screws them alL up, who’s knows. You look around the country and there are lots of decent QBs, yet a team that’s played in the CFB playoff can’t seem to recruit a difference maker at the most important position in sports.

Only qb on the team that seems to have a pulse is Pyne. I’d ride that wave the rest of the season.

Can we get more here to start day 1?

1 hour ago, coltssb said:

Why does this keep happening?  Hendrix, Wimbush, Zaire. Maybe Buchner?  Too early to say that about him yet but has the look of that type of qb. Are we recruiting that type because bK wants a different look?  He mentioned it’s hard to coach similar guys or get them ready if they are all the same protype. Maybe that’s the problem right there?  No established qb system?

We are recruiting that type because that’s all BK can get. The great QBs aren’t even considering us because they don’t want to play for BK. He isn’t a QB type coach. He gets the leftovers after all the top QBs go elsewhere. 

11 hours ago, Kid Gloves said:

We are recruiting that type because that’s all BK can get. The great QBs aren’t even considering us because they don’t want to play for BK. He isn’t a QB type coach. He gets the leftovers after all the top QBs go elsewhere. 

This is a major problem obviously. 

14 hours ago, SDIrishFan said:

Boggles my mind that ND can’t find a decent QB. Or maybe they do and the staff just screws them alL up, who’s knows. You look around the country and there are lots of decent QBs, yet a team that’s played in the CFB playoff can’t seem to recruit a difference maker at the most important position in sports.

Only qb on the team that seems to have a pulse is Pyne. I’d ride that wave the rest of the season.

Can we get more here to start day 1?

1. Do you remember Dayne Crists game at Purdue filling in for JC? Looked absolutely lights out (DC was a Weis kid)
2. What about Deshone Kizer's first year filling in for Malik Zaire's injury? Again, gamer.. Played fast and free and made few mistakes. 
3. What about Ian Books first year as a starter? He was favored because Brandon Wimbush was leaving too many easy reads on the field, and Ian Book was decisive and quick triggered. Go to year 2 and 3 of his career. 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you and taking your point further. This coaching staff has a way of regressing these kids. I know their argument is that these kids make freshman mistakes because teams will confuse them with a coverage they haven't seen and bait them into throwing a pick etc. My rebuttal is by teaching/helping these kids to read defenses better and not make poor decisions, they've overloaded their subconscious and they cant play fast and free like they did as a first year starter. 

I think they might be getting good enough players, but they're teaching the kid too much. Typically when someone tells you too much information, they're trying to prove something like they're smart enough to be coaching you etc.. Perhaps it's small school coach syndrome. These other schools get a big name kid, clean up his footwork and a couple other things and throw him to the wolves and see if he can play. They're not re-working his throwing motion and making sure he understands every single coverage before he goes out and starts taking snaps. 

It’s way to early in to conclude that. He could be a more athletic version of Pyn , but we have no idea because they rushed him by giving him a package, which worked till defense coordinators had film on him. His interception against Cincinnati was hopefully a truly Freshman mistake. Unfortunately for Buchner, when Kelly put him in for one play for Pyne when Pyne was crucially driving us down the field, the crowd booed. So, he’s being exposed to emotional stuff which Kelly shouldn’t be putting him into a position to experience so soon in his career. 

Edited October 3, 20213 yr by Frankus

4 hours ago, Frankus said:

It’s way to early in to conclude that. He could be a more athletic version of Pyn , but we have no idea because they rushed him by giving him a package, which worked till defense coordinators had film on him. His interception against Cincinnati was hopefully a truly Freshman mistake. Unfortunately for Buchner, when Kelly put him in for one play for Pyne when Pyne was crucially driving us down the field, the crowd booed. So, he’s being exposed to emotional stuff which Kelly shouldn’t be putting him into a position to experience so soon in his career. 

That was a MIND BOGGLING decision by the staff in my opinion. 

the package thing for Buckner is a total joke. He is zero threat to throw it and the other team knows it. It speaks volumes to me that he’s not being allowed to pass. If he’s not ready to run a full set of plays downs 1-3, don’t put him in.

and stop messing with kids throwing motion. They basically messed with Jurk enough that he couldn’t throw the simplest of passes and hated football.

the coaches are trying too hard with the qbs or something.
 

1 hour ago, SDIrishFan said:

That was a MIND BOGGLING decision by the staff in my opinion. 

the package thing for Buckner is a total joke. He is zero threat to throw it and the other team knows it. It speaks volumes to me that he’s not being allowed to pass. If he’s not ready to run a full set of plays downs 1-3, don’t put him in.

and stop messing with kids throwing motion. They basically messed with Jurk enough that he couldn’t throw the simplest of passes and hated football.

the coaches are trying too hard with the qbs or something.
 

I don’t mind a set of packages to get him ready for some live action. The timing was just way off. 
Also, a set package doesn’t do anyone any good if it’s the same set package and they know he can’t do anything else. Which he can’t yet. 
it’s like Lenzy his first year. Go run a go route. Then they keep running nothing but go routes. Teams have that figured out by the second time you run it. 

I dont think its fair to evaluate buchner based on his occasional "package".....i get what they were thinking.....Coan is so "statuesque" they thought having a change of  pace with the speedy buchner was smart.....unfortunately it hasnt really worked out to be smart  ....Pyne was never really considered IMO ..it was Coan to start and Buchner to offer the change of pace when they felt it would be effective and Pyne just a back up in case of injury....

That was obviously the plan since spring.....what happened though was Buchners package has overall been ineffective....and when Coan did get hurt Pyne comes in and plays better ?  ...conundrum is a nice word....whats actually happened is more of a MESS.....Nobodys happy.....Coan makes us look like wisconsin....Buchner isnt developing or effective with the package....and now all we have is a confused situation with a QB controversy......

Even though it does seem like de ja vu all over again!.....its probably not constructive to relive every Qb issue we have had under BK....different QB coaches...different OCs....different players,,and different situations albeit a repetitive issue in general....i really dont think Nick Saban could have developed the QBs we have had under BK into NFL first rounders,,,,it is what it is....we get guys with talent  but havent ever recruited a Top Tier recruit since Weis got Clausen....Rees Golson Hendrix Kizer Zaire Wimbush Book.....really only Gunner Kiel was a rated a top QB and that was likely always doomed....

So back to our current issues.....i would  shelve the Buchner package....clever idea but too clever by half as it turned out....and go with Coan and Pyne as your 2 QB system....play the guy with the hot hand...right now that should be PYNE as Coan has been sketchy lately....but if he falters go back to Coan....only so much we can do fellas

aloha

Edited October 3, 20213 yr by hawaiiirish

On 10/2/2021 at 7:40 PM, coltssb said:

Why does this keep happening?  Hendrix, Wimbush, Zaire. Maybe Buchner?  Too early to say that about him yet but has the look of that type of qb. Are we recruiting that type because bK wants a different look?  He mentioned it’s hard to coach similar guys or get them ready if they are all the same protype. Maybe that’s the problem right there?  No established qb system?

How does Lincoln Riley manage to attract and develop QBs the way he does? What does he do different than Brian Kelly? Whatever it is, it seems to have better results for that position.