According to the 247 Team Talent Composite Rankings (basically compiling all recruiting rankings for players on each roster):

 

1. Georgia (991.53)

2. Alabama (985.86)

3. Ohio State (976.48 )

4. Clemson (915.57)

5. Texas (892.91)

6. LSU (873.66)

7. Florida (871.69)

8. Notre Dame (866.56)

9. Oklahoma (866.36)

10. USC (863.93)

 

Huge gap between the Top 3 and everyone else - thought Clemson would be closer, although I think their 2019 class is holding them back (29 commits, with 15 3-stars). Makes you wonder what is going on at Texas. We know what is going on at USC...

 

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/LongFormArticle/Most-talented-college-football-teams-2020-season-247Sports-Team-Talent-Composite-152889228/

#6 won last year

 

We're on par with Oklahoma

 

Not to far from LSU.

Says to me talent should not be the reason we lose.

Which I think is true.

I think for the first time since I’ve been watching ND football (2003), players are being developed. We are clearly a notch below Clemson, OSU and Bama, but we are right at the top of the next tier.

 

Give us a competent DC in 2015 and 2016 and I bet you have another playoff appearance and another double digit win season.

 

It’s going to take special teams and turnovers to beat the upper echelon, still lacking 5 star talent.

I think for the first time since I’ve been watching ND football (2003), players are being developed. We are clearly a notch below Clemson, OSU and Bama, but we are right at the top of the next tier.

 

Give us a competent DC in 2015 and 2016 and I bet you have another playoff appearance and another double digit win season.

 

It’s going to take special teams and turnovers to beat the upper echelon, still lacking 5 star talent.

 

After seeing Bama’s Defense get a new ahole ripped open by Ole Miss, I can’t say I fully believe they’re better than ND for this yr. Clemson looks 2-3 TDs better, I’m guessing OSU is right around the same.

#6 won last year

 

We're on par with Oklahoma

 

Not to far from LSU.

Says to me talent should not be the reason we lose.

Which I think is true.

 

There’s been other years where they were probably even higher and only won 8-9 games. Burrow made all the difference.

There’s been other years where they were probably even higher and only won 8-9 games. Burrow made all the difference.

 

Looking at Texas and to a Degree UGA it shows it takes more then talent.

 

Saban Dabo, Meyer/Day has to do with their success.

 

Unpopular opinion warning: for the first time under Kelly with Rees/McNulty/Taylor/Quinn etc. We have a cohesive offensive scheme with an identity.

 

Lea also has a cohesive scheme. Before we panic Lea clearly diverged from that last week and IMO will get back to it as players can play more then 20 snaps. We are a coverage team. Last week because of holes in secondary availability, we were a blitzing team. Not the way Lea likes to play.

 

Cohesive schemes WILL develop Talent. We will see ND outplaying their talent ranking if this continues

I think we have definitely closed the talent gap. Our speed, size, and strength/conditioning is right there in most positions.

 

The difference is coaching and showing up in the big games when we do play the top teams in the country. Gotta fix that.

I think we have definitely closed the talent gap. Our speed, size, and strength/conditioning is right there in most positions.

 

The difference is coaching and showing up in the big games when we do play the top teams in the country. Gotta fix that.

 

It all boils down to Book. I know it sounds stupid bc they lost by 28, but ND played competitively with Clemson 2 yrs ago. The D held up until Love got hurt but the Offense just couldn’t move the ball.

This omits JUCO ratings I bet... I feel like there are some lost figures in here somehow.

After seeing Bama’s Defense get a new ahole ripped open by Ole Miss, I can’t say I fully believe they’re better than ND for this yr. Clemson looks 2-3 TDs better, I’m guessing OSU is right around the same.

 

I still haven’t seen Book or this o line perform against a top team. I need to see it before I can believe it.

 

I’ve seen this defense perform against top teams, however I feel the corners are still a question mark.

We are 36 and 6 over the last 3 plus seasons.

 

Im not gonna look it up but my instinct is that record likely puts us around number 8 ...so we are not overachieving but we are not underachieving either....producing right about where our recruiting would expect us to me.

 

is that good or not that is the question?

 

aloha

It all boils down to Book. I know it sounds stupid bc they lost by 28, but ND played competitively with Clemson 2 yrs ago. The D held up until Love got hurt but the Offense just couldn’t move the ball.

 

Well, I think there have been other big games where it just isn’t about Book. Our complete no show at Miami and Michigan come to mind where the entire team never got off the bus and it wasn’t just Book. That is a coaching issue and not a talent issue IMO.

I still haven’t seen Book or this o line perform against a top team. I need to see it before I can believe it.

 

I’ve seen this defense perform against top teams, however I feel the corners are still a question mark.

 

I think Ole Miss’ QB is better than Book, doubt their OL is better than ND’s. I can say for certain, ND’s Defense is a lot better. Crazy stat, if Ole Miss hadn’t played Defense at all, literally if they just sent air out to Defend vs Bama, Bama would’ve only gained 41 more yards. That’s an epic level of suck.

I think Ole Miss’ QB is better than Book, doubt their OL is better than ND’s. I can say for certain, ND’s Defense is a lot better. Crazy stat, if Ole Miss hadn’t played Defense at all, literally if they just sent air out to Defend vs Bama, Bama would’ve only gained 41 more yards. That’s an epic level of suck.

 

Wait....this is a qb who literally knew what play the defense was in every play and he’s better than Book now. Jumping the gun a little are we?

By Year:

 

2015: 8th

2016: 10th

2017: 10th

2018: 10th

2019: 14th

2020: 8th

 

Moving from 14th to 8th in one year while adding 18th ranked class (90.74) and dropping the 2016 15th ranked class (89.00) shows you that there is not much difference between teams just above or just below 10th.

 

What is interesting is that Auburn moved from 13th in overall roster in 2019 to 14th in 2020 even though they had the 7th ranked class in 2020. Also, their classes in 2015 to 2017 were ranked 8th, 9th, and 9th so it wasn't like a much higher ranked class dropped out.

 

Such results might reflect teams (which moved more than their 2020 recruiting class might indicate - such as ND and Clemson) having lower ranked recruits transferring out (or taking a "medical" retirement).

This omits JUCO ratings I bet... I feel like there are some lost figures in here somehow.

 

It accounts for every player on the roster. Not sure if it just uses the JUCO players HS recruiting ranking or his revised JUCO ranking, though.

 

Here is the intro:

 

"For those unfamiliar, the 247Sports Team Talent Composite is a measure of a team’s baseline talent level calculated by how a roster’s players ranked as recruits. The metric accounts for transfers and other moves and provides a window into each program’s overall talent heading into the meat of the 2020 season."

We are 36 and 6 over the last 3 plus seasons.

 

Im not gonna look it up but my instinct is that record likely puts us around number 8 ...so we are not overachieving but we are not underachieving either....producing right about where our recruiting would expect us to me.

 

is that good or not that is the question?

 

aloha

 

Exactly and I blame that the amount of schemes we've had. We've run everything from a 3-4 2 gap, to a man press 1 gap to a current 4-2-5(which makes the most sense..)

 

On offense we started with the 5 wide spread passing under molnar, then we went to a run heavy spread under martin, then we went to the pass again under Denbrock/Sanford with Kelly By the way we had Packers head coach Matt Lafluer on the staff(yes, that guy).. Got beat by Arizona STATE so we dabbled in RPO madness with Chip Long(understudy to Norvell, if we wanted to do that we shoulda brought in the real Norvell like we brought in the Real Elko, he didn't stay long, either would have Norvell, but we got Elko's real 4-2-5 before he left Now Rees/Taylor/McNulty/Quinn running a split zone NFL scheme similiar, too wait for it, The Rams, Packers and Chiefs,.. YES, those same Packers whose head coach was on the staff where we could've run this scheme YEARS AGO.................

 

 

 

So you see scheme inconsistency effects player development but then the whole Longo-Balis deal.

 

So yes Kelly certainly has not had a clear path but where we are now does look promising to me.

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by FaithInIrishForever

We are 36 and 6 over the last 3 plus seasons.

 

Im not gonna look it up but my instinct is that record likely puts us around number 8 ...so we are not overachieving but we are not underachieving either....producing right about where our recruiting would expect us to me.

 

is that good or not that is the question?

 

aloha

 

Since 2017, ND is #7 in total wins and #5 in winning percentage (Power 5 only):

 

1. Clemson: 41-3 (93.2%)

2. Alabama: 38-4 (90.5%)

2. Ohio State: 38-4 (90.5%)

4. Oklahoma: 36-5 (87.7%)

5. Georgia: 36-7 (83.7%)

6. LSU: 34-7 (82.9%)

7. Notre Dame: 33-6 (84.6%)

8. Penn State: 31-8 (79.5%)

9. Wisconsin: 31-10 (75.6%)

10. Oregon: 28-12 (70.0%)

10. Washington: 28-12 (70.0%)

12. Iowa: 27-12 (69.2%)

12. Michigan: 27-12 (69.2%)

14. Auburn: 27-13 (67.5%)

15. Washington State: 26-13 (66.7%)

16. Florida: 25-12 (67.6%)

17. Oklahoma State: 25-14 (64.1%)

17. Kentucky: 25-14 (64.1%)

19. Texas: 25-15 (62.5%)

20. Texas A&M: 24-15 (61.5%)

20. USC: 24-15 (61.5%)

20. Michigan State: 24-15 (61.5%)

Exactly and I blame that the amount of schemes we've had. We've run everything from a 3-4 2 gap, to a man press 1 gap to a current 4-2-5(which makes the most sense..)

 

On offense we started with the 5 wide spread passing under molnar, then we went to a run heavy spread under martin, then we went to the pass again under Denbrock/Sanford with Kelly By the way we had Packers head coach Matt Lafluer on the staff(yes, that guy).. Got beat by Arizona STATE so we dabbled in RPO madness with Chip Long(understudy to Norvell, if we wanted to do that we shoulda brought in the real Norvell like we brought in the Real Elko, he didn't stay long, either would have Norvell, but we got Elko's real 4-2-5 before he left Now Rees/Taylor/McNulty/Quinn running a split zone NFL scheme similiar, too wait for it, The Rams, Packers and Chiefs,.. YES, those same Packers whose head coach was on the staff where we could've run this scheme YEARS AGO.................

 

So you see scheme inconsistency effects player development but then the whole Longo-Balis deal.

 

So yes Kelly certainly has not had a clear path but where we are now does look promising to me.

 

So Faith, are you saying that ND has had 11 years of wandering without a consistent direction? If so, perhaps only 29 years to go before reaching the promised land...

We are 36 and 6 over the last 3 plus seasons.

 

Im not gonna look it up but my instinct is that record likely puts us around number 8 ...so we are not overachieving but we are not underachieving either....producing right about where our recruiting would expect us to me.

 

is that good or not that is the question?

 

aloha

 

Is only having roughly Top 10 talent what is preventing ND from not beating any Top 10 teams since 2013? If so, then the answer is that Kelly must recruit better. It is sad to hear Kelly talking about how he is finally putting in more effort this year recruiting compared to past years.

 

If it is not recruiting (since other teams without Top 10 talent manage to beat Top 10 teams), then it must be something else. Perhaps his schemes are too dependent on having more talent than other teams and they break down when talent is equalized.

Is only having roughly Top 10 talent what is preventing ND from not beating any Top 10 teams since 2013? If so, then the answer is that Kelly must recruit better. It is sad to hear Kelly talking about how he is finally putting in more effort this year recruiting compared to past years.

 

If it is not recruiting (since other teams without Top 10 talent manage to beat Top 10 teams), then it must be something else. Perhaps his schemes are too dependent on having more talent than other teams and they break down when talent is equalized.

He never said that. He said hes putting in tge same amount as always

 

7th in wins. 5th in winning perecentage. Others should worry about winning more