If we won't get them off the schedule because of some gray hair, dandruff, dry skin and overpaid/overrated debt, then let's play them game 1 every year. Tell them we build the library or monument in recognition of their never ending gift/sacrifice but the payment is due Game 1 every year. That would work right?

If they don’t cut block our OL and injure them for several games.

If we won't get them off the schedule because of some gray hair, dandruff, dry skin and overpaid/overrated debt, then let's play them game 1 every year. Tell them we build the library or monument in recognition of their never ending gift/sacrifice but the payment is due Game 1 every year. That would work right?

 

Jesus...millennials... No sense of service or gratitude...Just take everything without any sense of the sacrifice or cost that allows them to take... One day it will all collapse and you'll be the first one complaining that you don't see the military around. It's just a football game, bro. If that's the least we can do for the Navy, then I'll be happy to see Notre Dame play them every year and twice on Sunday. The inability of people in this country to show a little Goddamned respect and humility, today, never ceases to surprise me and heck, I'm not THAT old...

its much bigger than football.

Jesus...millennials... No sense of service or gratitude...Just take everything without any sense of the sacrifice or cost that allows them to take... One day it will all collapse and you'll be the first one complaining that you don't see the military around. It's just a football game, bro. If that's the least we can do for the Navy, then I'll be happy to see Notre Dame play them every year and twice on Sunday. The inability of people in this country to show a little Goddamned respect and humility, today, never ceases to surprise me and heck, I'm not THAT old...

 

He’s not a millennial. Not even close. Some day when you have more than two counterpoints to argue a position you’ll maybe win one of these internet debates.

People were laughing when ND beat Navy consecutively for 44 years. Now that Navy plays the Irish competitively people are complaining.

He’s not a millennial. Not even close. Some day when you have more than two counterpoints to argue a position you’ll maybe win one of these internet debates.

 

Yup when irishwave responds to you be ready to be called a millennial or a woman, that's about all he's got

If we won't get them off the schedule because of some gray hair, dandruff, dry skin and overpaid/overrated debt, then let's play them game 1 every year. Tell them we build the library or monument in recognition of their never ending gift/sacrifice but the payment is due Game 1 every year. That would work right?

 

As long as the Irish continue to play Navy why not schedule that game the last game of the season? If the Irish suffer any minor injuries they would have a month to recover and get healthy incase they play a bowl game.

People were laughing when ND beat Navy consecutively for 44 years. Now that Navy plays the Irish competitively people are complaining.

 

Navy also didn't run the triple option, cut blocking the DL for most of those 44 seasons.

Jesus...millennials... No sense of service or gratitude...Just take everything without any sense of the sacrifice or cost that allows them to take... One day it will all collapse and you'll be the first one complaining that you don't see the military around. It's just a football game, bro. If that's the least we can do for the Navy, then I'll be happy to see Notre Dame play them every year and twice on Sunday. The inability of people in this country to show a little Goddamned respect and humility, today, never ceases to surprise me and heck, I'm not THAT old...

 

Excellent post! Agree 100% and I am that old! And an alumnus!

If we won't get them off the schedule because of some gray hair, dandruff, dry skin and overpaid/overrated debt, then let's play them game 1 every year. Tell them we build the library or monument in recognition of their never ending gift/sacrifice but the payment is due Game 1 every year. That would work right?

 

In spite of all the grumbling your point is well made. You can't run with the hounds and the hare, you have to choose. If ND wants to be competitive in the playoff era they have to make choices to support that and honoring a 50 year old debt probably isn't part of that.

 

I am a veteran so don't get me wrong, I love the armed services and I am glad ND does this every year, but it isn't a smart move.

 

1. It does tend to lead to injury to our players, it is a fact.

2. It does nothing for our SOS. If we beat them they are overrated, if they beat us our season is over.

3. It takes up a slot where we should probably be placing another team to better practice and calibrate. Something like a Boise State, a mid major with a name who probably isn't going to alley whip us.

 

Between this and the JUCO thread, all of the issues that make it tough for ND to succeed are starting to be discussed. Whatever your side of the discussion is, the fact remains that ND has to make some compromises if they want to move to the Michigan / OSU tier (as someone pointed out the Bama level isn't likely and even they can't sustain indefinitely). If 9-3 is a good year nothing needs to change.

 

For my part, I am perfectly content at this stage to keep Navy and win 9 games, so long as we don't have to offset every great season (10+ wins) with an awful season ( not bowl eligible). I would love to see more JuCo kids but as was pointed out, I don't think the issue is ND turning up their nose so much as it is the lack of transferable courses.

I love the ND-Navy game every year, what I don't love is navy making this a game every year.

If they don’t cut block our OL and injure them for several games.

 

This is an old tired response. When is the last time this happened? Three, four years ago? Since they changed the engagement rule, this has been less of an issue.

It's always a frustrating game to watch (how can they not tackle that damn fullback on a 3rd and 8 dive????), but just take a look at those kid's faces on the other side. This is their Super Bowl. Their fans and students love it. As mentioned above it, they deserve it.

Navy vs. Notre Dame is one of the most unique rivalries in college football. I absolutely love the respect the two schools have for each other. It's truly special to have a rival that is based on respect instead of contempt.

 

Also, as an ND/ROTC grad (Army), I was able to experience the respect and comradery first-hand between Notre Dame and the service academies both when they visit ND and when we go to their campus. Notre Dame also has one of the larger / better ROTC programs in the country which makes the match up even more compelling from my perspective.

 

Just as I wouldn't want to stop scheduling USC, I don't want to stop scheduling Navy. It is one of my favorite rivals (minus the cut-blocking.) Maybe schedule Navy before our bye week so we have an extra week for the linemen to heal.

 

Why I love the Navy rivalry:

- We've been playing each other since 1927 - it's the longest uninterrupted rivalry in college football.

- Notre Dame might not even be around if it weren't for Navy making it a training facility during WW2

- When we beat them 43 straight times, they never suggested ending tradition.

- I've been to more Navy/ND games with my dad than any other game because he just loves the tradition, the fly-overs, the drill team, etc. It carries great memories personally to me.

- I love that both teams participate in both alma maters

 

Each is allowed their own opinion, but it would be a sad day for me if they ever ended this rivalry.

Facts are facts. Most teams stick to one region of the country for most of their games and play teams with similar styles every week. All of the conferences tend to have the same style of offenses and defenses. Part of of Notre Dame's problem is that they travel all over the country playing teams with all different styles of offenses and defenses. A very difficult and demanding task.

 

This is likely part of the reason why we seem to gas out at the end of every season. If winning a National Championship is our #1 goal, than we should do what it takes to do that, within the rules and within reason. That very well could mean getting rid of a team that is extremely difficult to prepare for style wise that we seem to play all over the world, and get no credit for when we do actually beat them.

 

If holding on to the past and our traditions mean more than currently winning a modern day national championship, then by all means keep them on the schedule every year.

 

It comes down to what your priorities are.

Facts are facts. Most teams stick to one region of the country for most of their games and play teams with similar styles every week. All of the conferences tend to have the same style of offenses and defenses. Part of of Notre Dame's problem is that they travel all over the country playing teams with all different styles of offenses and defenses. A very difficult and demanding task.

 

This is likely part of the reason why we seem to gas out at the end of every season. If winning a National Championship is our #1 goal, than we should do what it takes to do that, within the rules and within reason. That very well could mean getting rid of a team that is extremely difficult to prepare for style wise that we seem to play all over the world, and get no credit for when we do actually beat them.

 

If holding on to the past and our traditions mean more than currently winning a modern day national championship, then by all means keep them on the schedule every year. don't expose their schedule

 

It comes down to what your priorities are.

 

Exactly,

 

ND is at a cross roads of either wanting to win NC's or maintaining all their traditions.

 

Maintaining both is a very tall order on a HC....meaning the pool for a high quality replacement for BK will be smaller than a normal P5 school. Back in the 70's when scholarships were basically limitless, ND could load up on talent. In today's world of 85 schollies...parity is the norm....and the more you make your season difficult, the less success you should expect.

Edited December 6, 20177 yr by Uteck

Facts are facts. Most teams stick to one region of the country for most of their games and play teams with similar styles every week. All of the conferences tend to have the same style of offenses and defenses. Part of of Notre Dame's problem is that they travel all over the country playing teams with all different styles of offenses and defenses. A very difficult and demanding task.

 

This is likely part of the reason why we seem to gas out at the end of every season. If winning a National Championship is our #1 goal, than we should do what it takes to do that, within the rules and within reason. That very well could mean getting rid of a team that is extremely difficult to prepare for style wise that we seem to play all over the world, and get no credit for when we do actually beat them.

 

If holding on to the past and our traditions mean more than currently winning a modern day national championship, then by all means keep them on the schedule every year.

 

It comes down to what your priorities are.

 

I mentioned the travel issue before and I agree. It's got to be draining for the guys by this point in the season on top of practice, game prep, classes, etc. Plus it's drawing near the time for finals or it's already here, I can't remember. Regardless, that's a lot of extra studying on top of everything else.

Facts are facts. Most teams stick to one region of the country for most of their games and play teams with similar styles every week. All of the conferences tend to have the same style of offenses and defenses. Part of of Notre Dame's problem is that they travel all over the country playing teams with all different styles of offenses and defenses. A very difficult and demanding task.

 

This is likely part of the reason why we seem to gas out at the end of every season. If winning a National Championship is our #1 goal, than we should do what it takes to do that, within the rules and within reason. That very well could mean getting rid of a team that is extremely difficult to prepare for style wise that we seem to play all over the world, and get no credit for when we do actually beat them.

 

If holding on to the past and our traditions mean more than currently winning a modern day national championship, then by all means keep them on the schedule every year.

 

It comes down to what your priorities are.

 

The upside of traveling is the recruiting exposure. We are a national brand, which gets discounted by all the excuse makers who only see the downside when we lose. Blaming the Stanford loss on being mentally tired is the biggest excuse I've seen a coach make, but I see a lot of people have picked up on it.

 

I think the travel excuse is just another in a long line of excuses, but if we want to be a regional program we should just join the Big 10, which would be the final nail in the coffin. We'd be Northwestern, something a lot of the faculty would have no problem being reduced to.

 

Be careful what you wish for. A lot of good can be thrown out in the heat of a few disappointing losses.

The upside of traveling is the recruiting exposure. We are a national brand, which gets discounted by all the excuse makers who only see the downside when we lose. Blaming the Stanford loss on being mentally tired is the biggest excuse I've seen a coach make, but I see a lot of people have picked up on it.

 

I think the travel excuse is just another in a long line of excuses, but if we want to be a regional program we should just join the Big 10, which would be the final nail in the coffin. We'd be Northwestern, something a lot of the faculty would have no problem being reduced to.

 

Be careful what you wish for. A lot of good can be thrown out in the heat of a few disappointing losses.

 

Alabama is Regional

Ohio St is regional

USC is Regional

Clemson is regional

Michigan is regional

 

Army is independent

U. Mass is independent

New mexico st is independent

BYU is Independent

 

Ok I am finally starting to see your point

https://www.onefootdown.com/2013/10/31/5047760/notre-dame-navy-football-why-we-still-play-series-history-part-1

 

In recent years, college football has seen an unprecedented shakeup in its traditional structures. Conferences have fluctuated wildly; previously-unimaginable partnerships have formed; and--perhaps most importantly--old rivalries have been disbanded in favor of new ones. Notre Dame has certainly not been immune to this phenomenon, either, as evidenced by the recent move to the ACC (you da man, Savvy Jack).

 

But as speculation about future schedules begin to rise, so too have worries about Notre Dame's all-important Strength of Schedule. Would they keep their traditional rivalries? Would their rankings suffer from being required to play mediocre ACC teams? And which opponents could be deemed "expendable"? In particular, one question keeps popping up: "Why don't we just drop Navy from the schedule?"

 

I've also asked this question several times. After all, there are many logical reasons to swap out Navy for a tougher foe. Some include: "We have little to gain and a lot to lose"; "How can we drop Michigan but keep Navy??"; and by far the most common complaint, "How is it even a rivalry?? It's usually a lopsided win for us anyways!" All of these have merit to them--so much merit, in fact, that I decided to check it out for myself.

 

I wasn't sure what I would find out...but after a little research, a chat with ND legend Fr. Ted Hesburgh, and a lot of help from the friendly folks at the Notre Dame Archives and the Naval Academy Archives, it's safe to say I got a pretty solid answer. [To make things a bit more digestible, I'll split the story into the eras of 1927-1945 and 1945-present.]

 

Sit back and relax, folks--we're about to have ourselves a little history lesson about the longest continuous-running intersectional rivalry in college football.

 

The early years: 1927-1940

 

I won't spend a whole lot of time on the very beginning, but the first meeting in this 87-year series between Notre Dame and Navy was in 1927 in Baltimore. Although Navy held a 6-0 halftime lead, they eventually succumbed to the Irish reserves; the final was a 19-6 Notre Dame victory. In a prophetic twist, ND's 1927 Season Review declared: "This was Notre Dame's first game with the Naval Academy, and Irish supporters are confident that the same cordial relations that have existed between the Army and Notre Dame will exist with the other branch of the service."

 

 

Throughout the first 13 years of the series, the two teams played in Baltimore, Cleveland, and South Bend. In 1930, Navy was also the opponent at the dedication game for the brand-new Notre Dame Stadium, which was also the game that inspired G.K. Chesterton to write his famous poem "The Arena" after attending it. By 1940 (at which point ND led the series 10-3), the two schools had already built up quite a relationship. It may have helped that ND's President from 1934-1940 was then-Rev. John F. O'Hara, C.S.C., who eventually became the Apostolic Delegate for the U.S. Military Forces. During the war, he even became the first Catholic bishop to be appointed to the Board of Visitors at the Naval Academy!

 

Prior to the 1940 game, then-ND President Rev. J. Hugh O'Donnell, C.S.C. was asked by the Baltimore Catholic Review about the importance of the game with Navy. His response, in part, read:

 

In many respects, the two schools are similar both in objectives and in the daily lives of the students. As a result, there has developed through the years an esteem for the Naval Academy which places this game high on our list of intersectional gridiron contests[...]Clean sportsmanship has always characterized students of both [Army and Navy], and we are honored that two of our best rivalries are with these splendid institutions. No matter what the outcome of [this weekend's game], it will serve to forge another link in a splendid relationship.

 

How the Navy Saved Notre Dame: 1940-1945

 

But as the Irish and the Midshipmen clashed on the field, a deadlier conflict was breaking out in Europe. At first, there was little concern among the 3,200 students living in the 14 dorms on campus. The only military presence to speak of was a small nearby Civilian Air Patrol training school for student-pilots (which was restricted to military two years later).

However, as the European conflict intensified and the United States grew increasingly worried, the University became more involved in the war effort. For the most part, this consisted of Engineering and Science faculty members helping with research and instruction. The last on-campus change in peacetime was the establishment of the Naval ROTC in the summer of 1941, a program that has endured to this day (and still provides much of the visible, concrete link between Navy and ND).

 

As everyone knows, December 1941 changed the course of the nation, and its reverberations were felt even in South Bend. The all-male student body began leaving for the military in droves, and within a month an eerie silence settled over the once-bustling campus. The minuscule 750-man population was bad, but it was only one of the problems the University faced.

 

Frankly, it would be charitable to call ND's prewar endowment "mediocre"--it was downright bad. As donors began redirecting their funding to the war effort, schools nationwide suffered; in Notre Dame's case, it fell to three million dollars, which was among the smallest in the country for schools of its size. When I asked him how bad the situation was, Father Hesburgh (who was a young priest at the time) put it starkly: "We had a couple years with no income and a lot of expenses. If it wasn't for the Navy, we would've had to close within a year."

 

Thankfully for Notre Dame, help arrived not a moment too soon. Alerted to Notre Dame's dire financial situation by President O'Donnell's urgent request for aid, the War Department began a 5-year rescue effort that kept the University financially stable in return for using their facilities--a template that saved many other impoverished colleges across the country. I'll spare everyone most of the technical details, but here are the major milestones of the Navy's wartime resuscitation of Notre Dame:

 

• January 1942: A one-month V-7 training course (or "indoctrination") for USN Reserve Midshipmen officer candidates is proposed, with trainees potentially residing in Morrissey, Badin, Lyons, and Howard Halls. To accommodate this influx to campus, the Navy builds a huge drill hall on the present-day site of the Library, as well as an office/classroom building.

 

• April 1942: The first 1,200 V-7 officer trainees--the first of six classes--begin taking the aforementioned 30-day commissioning courses in the Indoctrination School. For the most part, their classes are taught in Washington Hall and the Engineering Building, and they take their meals in South Dining Hall. A significant amount of these students were actually transfers from the Naval Academy!

 

• May 1942: Notre Dame accelerates its academic year from two 18-week semesters to 3 16-week trimesters; this is done to align with other Navy-affiliated colleges.

 

• October 1942: The Navy declares its V-7 program at Notre Dame a full-fledged USN Reserve Midshipmen School, thus extending the original 30-day courses into four months; this allows officer trainees to receive a more complete college education before being sent out as leaders.

 

• July 1943: The War Department elects to maximize Notre Dame's facilities by building a major branch of the Naval V-12 Program there. Instead of being taught by naval officers (as the officer candidates were), the V-12 students took college courses directly from the Notre Dame faculty. These students were housed in Dillon, Alumni, Walsh, Cavanaugh, and Zahm Halls. Their presence ballooned the University's student population from a paltry 750 to the 3,500-4,000 range and above.

 

• In addition to all the training courses, the War Department also employed Notre Dame's researchers and science facilities for various projects, military and non-military alike. Among these were the Departments of Physics (atomic energy, rubber, radiation), Electrical Engineering, and Biology (anti-malaria measures, nutrition).

 

There are many more stories and stats to tell, but I will content myself with only a few more lines for today. At the conclusion of World War Two, the NROTC and the V-7 Midshipmen School stationed at Notre Dame produced 12,000 officers and officer candidates. Combined with the V-12 trainees and the regular alumni who entered the military through other means, Notre Dame gave the U.S. over 25,000 reserve Naval officers and ensigns during the war. But of all those military students and alumni, the most honored are these: the 331 who made the ultimate sacrifice, and their 1,200 fellow alumni who were wounded in World War Two--many of them products of both Notre Dame and the Navy. It is this solemn bond of shared blood, more than any contract or training course, that has forever sealed the friendship between Notre Dame and the Naval Academy.