This isn't meant to be a cover up for what was a terrible game Saturday night.

 

But to put things into perspective, this type of game happens to every team other than Alabama. Does it suck when it happens? Of course, but until ND becomes Alabama, it's likely going to happen again at some point.

 

Of the Power 5 teams in the top 25 right now, other than Alabama, every team has gone on the road and lost by 3+ scores in the last 3 seasons. All but Clemson and Wisc were either this year or last year.

 

Every. Single. Team.

 

Ohio St @ Iowa

Georgia @ Auburn

USC @ ND

TCU @ OU

Stanford @ Washington

Washington @ Stanford

Michigan @ Penn St.

Michigan St. @ Ohio St.

Auburn @ Alabama

LSU @ Miss. St.

Clemson @ Georgia

Miami @ Va Tech

Wisconsin vs Ohio St

Ok St. @ OU

Penn St. @ Michigan

Washington St @ Cal

Miss St @ Auburn

NC St @ ND

 

If you notice, only once was Alabama the team putting on the beating.

 

Yes, I get all of the year 8 stuff and I concede that this isn't good enough at this point in a tenure.

 

But to suggest that ND is the only team that has failed miserably in a big road game is just plain nonsense. Every team, except Alabama, has failed miserably in a big road game in the last few seasons.

I think, besides the fact that we also lose to the Tulsa's of the world, the problem is perception. We've had a perception that we've been overated ever since the Fiesta Bowl in 2000. We had a chance to put that aside, but didn't. So, the perception remains. That can't be good for recruiting, which is the lifeblood of a program. Kelly needs to prove we aren't overrated. Yeah, I get that Urban Meyer got shellacked this year, but he's Urban Meyer. So, he gets a pass Kelly and ND won't. Is there any other program that gets beat so badly so often in big games? I don't know, but ND has that national perception of being overated that I don't think anybody can deny.

Edited November 13, 20177 yr by Frankus

My problem wasn't with the losing. ND lost "well" to Georgia, even at home.

 

My problem was that this loss was waaaaay worse than even the NC game in 2013. I'd say within the first quarter, I literally had no hope that any comeback was possible. Now my lack of hope is subjective but I haven't felt that way in a long time and it was based on the fact that NOTHING was working. NOTHING. We got whipped in EVERY facet of the game. It's been a long time since I've seen a game where that was true on a big state with two top ranked teams.

 

Most embarrassing loss, IMO, since Navy in 2008 (or whatever year that was).

 

I think we can still finish 10-2 but it's not going to take the sting out of how manhandled we were in that game. And by a team that had been struggling to win all year. I just don't get it.

 

It's Monday and I'm still blown away.

This is why not coming back until Monday after a bad loss makes sense. Yes, it still stings, yes Frankus and OklahomaIrishFan's posts are completely on point, but so is Cory's. This stuff happens and as fans, we can wretch but we can't let it get the better of us. There was some awful stuff being said about the team and to each other on Saturday night. Some of it is understandable but the reality is - move forward, crush Navy and beat Stanford, and right the wrong of the UM game in a big bowl.

 

That's what we can hope for. Truly, we didn't earn our #3 ranking and I think we're fortunate to still be #9.

 

Also, I can say that I do think Kelly's response to the outcome is about as frustrating as anything. How can it be so plainly obvious what happened, yet he won't admit it or show any inkling he even sees it? That's the maddening part, to me.

I think, besides the fact that we also lose to the Tulsa's of the world, the problem is perception. We've had a perception that we've been overated ever since the Fiesta Bowl in 2000. We had a chance to put that aside, but didn't. So, the perception remains. That can't be good for recruiting, which is the lifeblood of a program. Kelly needs to prove we aren't overrated. Yeah, I get that Urban Meyer got shellacked this year, but he's Urban Meyer. So, he gets a pass Kelly and ND won't. Is there any other program that gets beat so badly so often in big games? I don't know, but ND has that national perception of being overated that I don't think anybody can deny.

 

I agree for the most part, I think some of that perception has been lessened a little this season because finally we've had some high quality wins over msu, nc state and USC.

 

But it would definitely help if nd could beat Stanford and/or get a bowl win to help legitimize the season a bit and regain some stability going into next year. I felt like we've seen a nice upward trend in terms of progression all season and then hit a cliff Saturday night putting everything in question. It will be hugely beneficial going into next season to get at least 1 more high quality win to stabilize the season and still have a good taste in our mouths heading into the off season

This is why not coming back until Monday after a bad loss makes sense. Yes, it still stings, yes Frankus and OklahomaIrishFan's posts are completely on point, but so is Cory's. This stuff happens and as fans, we can wretch but we can't let it get the better of us. There was some awful stuff being said about the team and to each other on Saturday night. Some of it is understandable but the reality is - move forward, crush Navy and beat Stanford, and right the wrong of the UM game in a big bowl.

 

That's what we can hope for. Truly, we didn't earn our #3 ranking and I think we're fortunate to still be #9.

 

Also, I can say that I do think Kelly's response to the outcome is about as frustrating as anything. How can it be so plainly obvious what happened, yet he won't admit it or show any inkling he even sees it? That's the maddening part, to me.

 

Like i’ve said several times since saturday night, i’m not a big kelly fan, but the staff handed brandon an easy playbook on a golden platter. Simple routes to keep the def honest. He sh1t his pants & dropped the platter. Not sure what more Kelly can say in a post game presser w/o killing brandon’s already shaky head....

I can't believe I'm going to make this try and sound better for myself because I do feel duped, but since I've come to accept that we've got our current head coach for a while, I'm trying to see the positives.

 

In comparing us to someone like OSU (only for THIS season and not over the past 5 years, because that comparison would be embarrassing) but for our same 2 losses, we got beat far less convincingly by the former #1 team, whereas they got beat thoroughly in their first loss; and we got taken behind the woodshed by a team with far more talent than the team that did the same to them in Iowa City.

 

What really matters now is how the team looks in the next 2 games. If they rebound the way OSU did (so far anyway) after the Iowa pummeling, I'll feel better. If they dominate Navy the way OSU did Sparty, and then finish up with a tough road win at Stanford, I'll feel that the azz-whooping down in Fla was more of an anomaly.

 

Of course, that feeling won't be complete until I see how things go against what will likely be a pretty damm good opponent in a bowl game, if we are sitting at 10-2 at season's end.

Like i’ve said several times since saturday night, i’m not a big kelly fan, but the staff handed brandon an easy playbook on a golden platter. Simple routes to keep the def honest. He sh1t his pants & dropped the platter. Not sure what more Kelly can say in a post game presser w/o killing brandon’s already shaky head....

 

I said this before and I'll say it again: Miami knew ND was going to throw that slant route early and was prepared for it, because their linebacker batted it in the air and it almost was intercepted. So what does ND do? They throw it again deep in their territory. QB's that get a ball batted on the first slant route throw think they have to adjust and throw higher in their second throw. This was in Wimbush's head pre snap. What does he do? He throws it higher, but too high. Brown bats it up and it gets intercepted.

 

Wimbush is not that good a QB to make that kind of fine tune adjustment. The second slant call was a high risk call given the first result of a batted ball by the linebacker. So, what you call a "simple route" isn't so simple, unless you think a coach shouldn't know his personnel well enough to know how capable his is making fine tune adjustment to his throwing motion.

I think, besides the fact that we also lose to the Tulsa's of the world, the problem is perception. We've had a perception that we've been overated ever since the Fiesta Bowl in 2000. We had a chance to put that aside, but didn't. So, the perception remains. That can't be good for recruiting, which is the lifeblood of a program. Kelly needs to prove we aren't overrated. Yeah, I get that Urban Meyer got shellacked this year, but he's Urban Meyer. So, he gets a pass Kelly and ND won't. Is there any other program that gets beat so badly so often in big games? I don't know, but ND has that national perception of being overated that I don't think anybody can deny.

 

Well, I suppose on one hand, you have to be a decent program to even get to play in "big games", so the fact ND has been in them is at least encouraging.

 

But Meyer lost 31-0 vs Clemson. Then got blown out vs Iowa. Eeeked by Penn St at home. I'd say Ohio St's record in big games is just as bad as ND's the last two seasons.

 

Of course, they beat Alabama, so they get that perception boost. So really, ND just needs to get over the hump in one of these games and they won't be any different than any other top 10 team sans Alabama.

 

USC was a start. Now they need to finish one vs. Clemson, FSU, Georgia, etc. and the Miami game will be a distant memory.

I get your argument Cory it's just the fact we always do it in a huge stage, and it's usually a massive blowout.

 

Miami, OSU, Stanford, Bama, LSU, OSU and I think the last one right before I became a fan losing to Oregon State. Forgot USC 06 too.

 

We can't beat a major team in a true road game and forget about us showing up in a big bowl on a neutral site. A top 20 Stanford team definitely isn't on the stage of some of those games but we need to change the narrative. If we win that we can really change the perception with a BCS bowl win, just hope we don't draw an Ohio State.

I get your argument Cory it's just the fact we always do it in a huge stage, and it's usually a massive blowout.

 

Miami, OSU, Stanford, Bama, LSU, OSU and I think the last one right before I became a fan losing to Oregon State. Forgot USC 06 too.

 

We can't beat a major team in a true road game and forget about us showing up in a big bowl on a neutral site. A top 20 Stanford team definitely isn't on the stage of some of those games but we need to change the narrative. If we win that we can really change the perception with a BCS bowl win, just hope we don't draw an Ohio State.

 

Certainly true. But lets also remember that for a long time, ND was put into bowls they didn't belong in because they were Notre Dame. Obviously ND of the pat 20 years hasn't been on par with the top 5 teams in the country. No wonder they've always gotten blown out when they had to face those teams.

 

Hopefully moving forward, ND can change that narrative. 3 20+ point wins over ranked teams, one on the road, isn't a bad place to start.

 

I know they aren't "national stage", but you can say ND has had 5 "big games" this year. They won by 35, 21 and 20 (on the road) and lost by 1 and 33. It's not like they've never performed well in a big game. If anything, the "bad performance" is the outlier this season.

 

They also beat OU on the road and top 10 Michigan St. on the road as well, so they've had some good moments too.

 

We also have to remember, it is hard to win on the road. There is a reason top 15 teams are 930-86 at home over the last 10 years.

I get your argument Cory it's just the fact we always do it in a huge stage, and it's usually a massive blowout.

 

Miami, OSU, Stanford, Bama, LSU, OSU and I think the last one right before I became a fan losing to Oregon State. Forgot USC 06 too.

 

We can't beat a major team in a true road game and forget about us showing up in a big bowl on a neutral site. A top 20 Stanford team definitely isn't on the stage of some of those games but we need to change the narrative. If we win that we can really change the perception with a BCS bowl win, just hope we don't draw an Ohio State.

 

I'd prefer to avoid auburn as well, any top notch defense would just be a repeat I fear. I'd take psu, Wisconsin even Oklahoma State

Certainly true. But lets also remember that for a long time, ND was put into bowls they didn't belong in because they were Notre Dame. Obviously ND of the pat 20 years hasn't been on par with the top 5 teams in the country. No wonder they've always gotten blown out when they had to face those teams.

 

Hopefully moving forward, ND can change that narrative. 3 20+ point wins over ranked teams, one on the road, isn't a bad place to start.

 

I know they aren't "national stage", but you can say ND has had 5 "big games" this year. They won by 35, 21 and 20 (on the road) and lost by 1 and 33. It's not like they've never performed well in a big game. If anything, the "bad performance" is the outlier this season.

 

They also beat OU on the road and top 10 Michigan St. on the road as well, so they've had some good moments too.

 

We also have to remember, it is hard to win on the road. There is a reason top 15 teams are 930-86 at home over the last 10 years.

 

Agree, progress has been made this year that's impossible for anyone to deny. The next step is establishing that the Miami game is the outlier. They can do that by beating Stanford and winning a bowl game, do that and this game was nothing but a bump in the road. But if they continue to struggle after this game and say only beat navy it's hard to feel like the program is still trending up

Agree, progress has been made this year that's impossible for anyone to deny. The next step is establishing that the Miami game is the outlier. They can do that by beating Stanford and winning a bowl game, do that and this game was nothing but a bump in the road. But if they continue to struggle after this game and say only beat navy it's hard to feel like the program is still trending up

 

Absolutely. Lose to Stanford and a bowl game, finish 9-4 and the talk will be the Georgia had a 1st time freshman stater, USC was beat up and NC State/Michigan St aren't that good.

 

Beat Stanford, win a big bowl, finish 11-2 and ND finishes top 5 in the country and starts there next season.

 

Important 3 games coming up.

But Meyer lost 31-0 vs Clemson. Then got blown out vs Iowa. Eeeked by Penn St at home. I'd say Ohio St's record in big games is just as bad as ND's the last two seasons.

 

Urban Meyer is 69–8 in his 6 years at OSU and has won a National Championship beating Alabama and a Fiesta Bowl - beating us by 16 in a game when we never got within 14 point of them. He lost to Clemson in the Discover BCS Bowl by 5. Yeah, he's had a few bad losses, but comparing his program to ours is silly. We don't belong in the same conversation. He's a consistent winner, we're not.

 

We also have to remember, it is hard to win on the road. There is a reason top 15 teams are 930-86 at home over the last 10 years.

 

I'd prefer to avoid auburn as well, any top notch defense would just be a repeat I fear. I'd take psu, Wisconsin even Oklahoma State

 

That is a scary stat! I personally know it's much tougher on the road but not sure why there is such a huge discrepancy. Teams like ND have the cash to stay a couple nights to get accustomed to the time change or whatever the case may be.

 

Auburn is actually a worse matchup I agree, too many big athletes on that team I think they'd smoke us. Wisconsin would be a dream matchup for us, I think we match up well with them.

Urban Meyer is 69–8 in his 6 years at OSU and has won a National Championship beating Alabama and a Fiesta Bowl - beating us by 16 in a game when we never got within 14 point of them. He lost to Clemson in the Discover BCS Bowl by 5. Yeah, he's had a few bad losses, but comparing his program to ours is silly. We don't belong in the same conversation. He's a consistent winner, we're not.

 

I said the last 2 seasons. Clearly ND hasn't been good as long as Ohio St. has been.

 

Meyer lost 31-0 to Clemson less than a year ago in the playoffs. He also lost to them by 5, that was 3 seasons ago.

I said the last 2 seasons. Clearly ND hasn't been good as long as Ohio St. has been.

 

Meyer lost 31-0 to Clemson less than a year ago in the playoffs. He also lost to them by 5, that was 3 seasons ago.

 

Don't forget urban was smoked by Oklahoma tbis year too

I said the last 2 seasons. Clearly ND hasn't been good as long as Ohio St. has been.

 

Meyer lost 31-0 to Clemson less than a year ago in the playoffs. He also lost to them by 5, that was 3 seasons ago.

 

So what?

 

Urban Meyer at OSU 2012 -2017:

 

All Games: 69-8- 90% win rate

Title Game: 1

National Championships: 1

Major Postseason Games (4): Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Fiesta

Major Postseason Record: 2-2

 

Brian Kelly at ND 2012 -2017

 

All Games: 51-23- 69% win rate

Title Games: 1

National Championships: 0

Major Postseason Games (2): BCS NC, Fiesta

Major Postseason Record: 0-2

 

By any measure you shouldn't bring Brian Kelly in with Urban Meyer, and I'm not even including UM's Florida reign when he won 2 National Championships and won 5 Major Bowls including the *** kicking of Kelly's Cincy team.

 

This "Urban had blowouts too" doesn't wash. It's a fake equivalence worthy of Fox News.

So what?

 

Urban Meyer at OSU 2012 -2017:

 

All Games: 69-8- 90% win rate

Title Game: 1

National Championships: 1

Major Postseason Games (4): Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Fiesta

Major Postseason Record: 2-2

 

Brian Kelly at ND 2012 -2017

 

All Games: 51-23- 69% win rate

Title Games: 1

National Championships: 0

Major Postseason Games (2): BCS NC, Fiesta

Major Postseason Record: 0-2

 

By any measure you shouldn't bring Brian Kelly in with Urban Meyer, and I'm not even including UM's Florida reign when he won 2 National Championships and won 5 Major Bowls including the *** kicking of Kelly's Cincy team.

 

This "Urban had blowouts too" doesn't wash. It's a fake equivalence worthy of Fox News.

 

It's all false equivalency when you get right down to it. The measure of someone like Meyer or Saban at OSU, Bama, Florida, etc... doesn't translate one to one to success at ND.

 

Truth be told even if you don't think ND is too restrictive for a lot of student athletes, the fact remains that you are going to get a different group who have heavier academic obligations. I am not saying they can't get it done, but I don't think a Meyer or a Saban coming in to ND is going to succeed at the same rate they do at a Bama or other state type school.

 

Kelly has done nothing to warrant the comparison to Meyer, but no one since Holtz has done anything to prove that anyone can win a championship at ND.

It's all false equivalency when you get right down to it. The measure of someone like Meyer or Saban at OSU, Bama, Florida, etc... doesn't translate one to one to success at ND.

 

Truth be told even if you don't think ND is too restrictive for a lot of student athletes, the fact remains that you are going to get a different group who have heavier academic obligations. I am not saying they can't get it done, but I don't think a Meyer or a Saban coming in to ND is going to succeed at the same rate they do at a Bama or other state type school.

 

Kelly has done nothing to warrant the comparison to Meyer, but no one since Holtz has done anything to prove that anyone can win a championship at ND.

 

No one is comparing Kelly to Meyer. I'm only pointing out that Brian Kelly isn't the only coach to have got blown out in a big game.

 

Meyer and Saban stand alone. But how is Kelly any different than any of the other top 20 coaches right now who have never beaten a top 5 team and have been blown out in big games on the road?

 

Again, if Kelly gets fired, fine by me, but let't not pretend like he's the only coach who has trouble beating Alabama and winning big road games. It's a pretty long list.