hawaiiirish Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Come on fella's---so much throwing in the towel on the season before it starts.... Lets be objective ---one of the reasons 2016 was so stunningly horrible is that 2015 was so strong and expectations were high.... Do you guys remember 2015? The terrific game at Clemson we lost by only 2 and clearly were dominating the 2nd half and the 2 point loss to Stanford at the end in a game that should have been another great Kizer closer if not for the 30 second collapse by the D 10 BIG WINS and 2 losses by 2 points to excellent teams that kept us from Kelly's SECOND undefeated season at ND----I mean none of you guys were calling for a firing then other then BVG ( which I freely admit was all on Kelly and he has paid for that) we were in the PLAYOFF picture till the final bell It was a very good year and exciting..... So how is it that 2015 was so good and 2017 has NO CHANCE to be anything but horrid..... Remember 2015 had Kelly calling the plays and being the master strategist:grin: 2015 had BVG giving up bundles of big plays and featuring an overall pourous defense But we had talent and a terrific offense and that took us a long way 2017 has the same potential We are loaded on offense end to end----and though the defense lacks the great established players , we did escape from BVG and Elko should alter the play for the better. is 2017 going to be a repeat of 2016 with all the pain and frustration or could it be a repeat of 2015 with lots of wins and excitement and ND using its offense and special teams to flirt with the top ten! I don't have a crystal ball but it seems this could go either way depending on Wimbush , Elko, Kelly, Hayes, Tillery, Studstill , Long, et al If guys we need step up and the team gels we could go 2015's way and have fun and win 10. Another 2016 is FAR from set in granite so stay out of the dumper till the team puts us in it! aloha's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithInIrish Forever Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Agreed Hawaii, Looking forward to the season, I saw that Fuller catch vs Temple live with my teenage nephew at his first ND Game what a memory. About 58 days until they can write a new chapter in our memories. Can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Jack Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 You have some points Hawaii but we went 10-3 that year. We lost to the only 3 good teams we played. Ohio State toyed with us. People act like 10 wins is amazing and yet Stanford wakes up, stumbles out of bed and wins 10th games a season.....in rebuilding years like last year. MSU before last year. Michigan 2 years under Harbaugh now, etc. 10 wins should be the norm, not a great season. 12 wins should be the ceiling. 8 wins the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Come on fella's---so much throwing in the towel on the season before it starts.... Lets be objective ---one of the reasons 2016 was so stunningly horrible is that 2015 was so strong and expectations were high.... Do you guys remember 2015? The terrific game at Clemson we lost by only 2 and clearly were dominating the 2nd half and the 2 point loss to Stanford at the end in a game that should have been another great Kizer closer if not for the 30 second collapse by the D 10 BIG WINS and 2 losses by 2 points to excellent teams that kept us from Kelly's SECOND undefeated season at ND----I mean none of you guys were calling for a firing then other then BVG ( which I freely admit was all on Kelly and he has paid for that) we were in the PLAYOFF picture till the final bell It was a very good year and exciting..... So how is it that 2015 was so good and 2017 has NO CHANCE to be anything but horrid..... Remember 2015 had Kelly calling the plays and being the master strategist:grin: 2015 had BVG giving up bundles of big plays and featuring an overall pourous defense But we had talent and a terrific offense and that took us a long way 2017 has the same potential We are loaded on offense end to end----and though the defense lacks the great established players , we did escape from BVG and Elko should alter the play for the better. is 2017 going to be a repeat of 2016 with all the pain and frustration or could it be a repeat of 2015 with lots of wins and excitement and ND using its offense and special teams to flirt with the top ten! I don't have a crystal ball but it seems this could go either way depending on Wimbush , Elko, Kelly, Hayes, Tillery, Studstill , Long, et al If guys we need step up and the team gels we could go 2015's way and have fun and win 10. Another 2016 is FAR from set in granite so stay out of the dumper till the team puts us in it! aloha's I dont think there will be another repeat of 2016 at all. Weis got his 3 win season and he was given one more before being shown the door. Also had 2 BCS appearances ending in complete waxings. Sound familiar? Im confident this is BK's final season at ND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davislove Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 You have some points Hawaii but we went 10-3 that year. We lost to the only 3 good teams we played. Ohio State toyed with us. People act like 10 wins is amazing and yet Stanford wakes up, stumbles out of bed and wins 10th games a season.....in rebuilding years like last year. MSU before last year. Michigan 2 years under Harbaugh now, etc. 10 wins should be the norm, not a great season. 12 wins should be the ceiling. 8 wins the floor. Ok, We should have fired kelly and brought in a new coach. Who is that coach? I'm gonna keep bringing this up. So get use to it. We can hire a new coach, give him a 3 year pass to get "his" players then fire him. Rinse and repeat? That money can add up. I think it's smart to stay put with kelly as long as he's not burning down the house until the right guy comes along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Ok, We should have fired kelly and brought in a new coach. Who is that coach? I'm gonna keep bringing this up. So get use to it. We can hire a new coach, give him a 3 year pass to get "his" players then fire him. Rinse and repeat? That money can add up. I think it's smart to stay put with kelly as long as he's not burning down the house until the right guy comes along. Ha, don't look now but I think you just epitomized the acceptance of mediocrity that Elder was arguing didn't exist around here. Bravo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davislove Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Ha, don't look now but I think you just epitomized the acceptance of mediocrity that Elder was arguing didn't exist around here. Bravo. It's not accepting mediocrity, and don't dismiss the part about when the right guys comes along. In football sometimes you have win the battle of field position and that often means going 3 and out. Is that being mediocre because we're not scoring as much as you feel we should? You can't get all emotional and go for the 4 and longs. with no worthy alternatives, i'm going with the devil I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltssb Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I agree Hawaii, I think we have a bounce back year and surprise some people. Lord knows we need to beat a few top 10 teams this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goirish83 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 It's not accepting mediocrity, and don't dismiss the part about when the right guys comes along. In football sometimes you have win the battle of field position and that often means going 3 and out. Is that being mediocre because we're not scoring as much as you feel we should? You can't get all emotional and go for the 4 and longs. with no worthy alternatives, i'm going with the devil I know. But what if the right guy doesn't come along for another 5 years and Kelly continues to wallow in 7 win seasons? How long until you stop waiting for the perfect candidate and pull the trigger on someome who might be a bit of a risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Hawaii puts out some very good points here for this upcoming season. The new hires on the coaching staff is one reason to be optimistic. This offense has an excellent chance to be very very good. The D can only improve. I think we will see a few players on D pick up their games. Probably more than a few of them were shackled in terms of development and production by the mess of a D that was the past several seasons. With new/better coaches and scheme, I expect to see some of these guys step up and begin to fulfill their potential (Tillery comes to mind). A reason not to be optimistic for this season: BK is still the HC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndomer4 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 I'm predicting 9 wins because I think the assistants Kelly hired can hide some of his downfalls. He needs to let go of the offense, Long is established and maybe he can get back to the hurry up which made him successful at Cincy. With what I've seen 9 wins that I'm predicting is very optimistic to me. This is because he actually made some logical hires we all called for but mainly the Elko hire. It's no secret We could have finished top ten 2 of the last 3 years if it weren't for BVG. I saw what success Elko had with 2 stars at Wake, I watched a few games and I know he's the best DC we've had since I've been a fan. If it weren't for Elko I'd say we win 6 games, he should do wonders with the athletes we have on defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OKCIrish99 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Im confident this is BK's final season at ND.What do you base this on Echo? Do you really think Swarbrick will pull the plug on him after giving him a long term contract a bit ago? You may laugh, but I, honestly feel as long as he wins 6 in 2017 he stays. Seriously. If Swarbrick couldn't do it after last season, when will he? The team and Kelly just looked like they had no fire. @Hawaii- I need to see Wimbush and the defense before I make any serious predictions about this team. Just too many unknowns. Surely believe the defense will be better, but that is about the only possible direction to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davislove Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 But what if the right guy doesn't come along for another 5 years and Kelly continues to wallow in 7 win seasons? How long until you stop waiting for the perfect candidate and pull the trigger on someome who might be a bit of a risk? Outside of last season, when was the last time Kelly had a 7 win season? Not since 2005. Your question isn't based in reality. But to answer your question the best I can (I'm not afraid to do so like you seem to be) He needs to show that last season was the exception. If my A/C breaks down, i'm gonna try to fix it before I replace it. Before last season we were 10 wins,8 wins, 9 wins, 12 wins. that's not a dumpster fire. No need to panic, it's better to be prepared. Even BK had another DC in the bullpen last year. The right guy will be there next year. I can ask the question of who would be a candidate after next season and get a ton of replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echo88 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 What do you base this on Echo? Do you really think Swarbrick will pull the plug on him after giving him a long term contract a bit ago? You may laugh, but I, honestly feel as long as he wins 6 in 2017 he stays. Seriously. If Swarbrick couldn't do it after last season, when will he? The team and Kelly just looked like they had no fire. @Hawaii- I need to see Wimbush and the defense before I make any serious predictions about this team. Just too many unknowns. Surely believe the defense will be better, but that is about the only possible direction to go. Yeah I really do think that. The whole long term contract thing hasn't ever stopped them before. We will probably end up paying BK for another decade. I'd donate money to that fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davislove Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Hawaii puts out some very good points here for this upcoming season. The new hires on the coaching staff is one reason to be optimistic. This offense has an excellent chance to be very very good. The D can only improve. I think we will see a few players on D pick up their games. Probably more than a few of them were shackled in terms of development and production by the mess of a D that was the past several seasons. With new/better coaches and scheme, I expect to see some of these guys step up and begin to fulfill their potential (Tillery comes to mind). A reason not to be optimistic for this season: BK is still the HC! The defense was bad but I feel that the offense was in trouble behind the scene. Sanford was OC in name only and as the qb coach i'm sure Kelly was looking over his shoulder if not outright taking charge. You had Denbrock who has been with Kelly for years but keep getting passed over for OC. Kelly had to keep him happy with play calling. It didn't seem like a cohesive unit to me. I'm confident we'll know one way or the other if BK keeps his job early in the season . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCDomer Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 The defense was bad but I feel that the offense was in trouble behind the scene. Sanford was OC in name only and as the qb coach i'm sure Kelly was looking over his shoulder if not outright taking charge. You had Denbrock who has been with Kelly for years but keep getting passed over for OC. Kelly had to keep him happy with play calling. It didn't seem like a cohesive unit to me. I'm confident we'll know one way or the other if BK keeps his job early in the season . Everybody has a magic crystal ball on what they think will happen. The thing is, ND has shown that it does not always do the conventional thing or the smart thing when it comes to football decisions. Take the past 15 years as example of decision making with regards to coaches, decisions made by ADs, management of football operations, and all the lower level mistakes leading to headlines. We put our head above the fray as part of the PR machine known as ND. Not regional.... not local, but National Brand. The National Brand has lost its luster in the past 2 decades. The New Alumni aren't running the show. Until they do .... we will more often than not be mediocre. The golden age of ND football prowess is obviously and most certainly on the verge of extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goirish83 Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Outside of last season, when was the last time Kelly had a 7 win season? Not since 2005. Your question isn't based in reality. But to answer your question the best I can (I'm not afraid to do so like you seem to be) He needs to show that last season was the exception. If my A/C breaks down, i'm gonna try to fix it before I replace it. Before last season we were 10 wins,8 wins, 9 wins, 12 wins. that's not a dumpster fire. No need to panic, it's better to be prepared. Even BK had another DC in the bullpen last year. The right guy will be there next year. I can ask the question of who would be a candidate after next season and get a ton of replies. Right because the thought of a Brian Kelly led team winning only 7 games is completely out of touch with reality, what an unfathomable thought. You have no idea if the right guy will be there next year, that's an opinion based on nothing other then stoops potentially being available. There is nothing at this point in time that suggests the candidates will be any stronger after this season then they were last year. If you're air conditioning has only worked 2 years out of the past 7 I'm guessing you'd get a new one But hey you're the self proclaimed smartest guy on the board so who am I to argue with your clearly superior intellect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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