Things i like about the team.

[hawaiiirish 62]

Since there is no shortage of concerns about this seasons squad , and little confidence in Kelly.....here are some of the things I am excited about or at least feel good about that could produce a pretty good season.

 

THE OFFENSE!!!

 

Geez there is lots to like here....

 

Like Herby I too expect a breakout season from Wimbush---one thing Kelly has been able to do is field a tutored QB that plays very well from the get go---and Brandon has oodles of talent

 

The offensive line. Two legit AA candidates --- great size and resumes across the board on this group----this OLINE could be terrific ----there will be some changes in emphasis from LONG and that will likely help these guys live up to those resumes!

 

Chip Long----Just having a true OC instead of a figurehead could shift two games KELLY blows in the 4th quarter from the loss side to the win side----BK has made some frustrating calls and tactics that have really cost us, the new structure , tweaked scheme, and new OC could really change that,,,,

 

THE TALL AND TALENTED WRS---Boynkin /Claypool & ST Brown----god that's a giant set of height----St Brown had that near 1000 last season ---guys like Stephersen and CJ Sanders also in the mix---that's some good stuff

 

ALZIE MACK/JONES----Whatever his name this could be a real difference maker with the potential of really deserving the moniker of ND TE

 

THE RBs----Adams/Dexter/ & Tony J----with Wimbush's mobility and that awesome (on paper) OLINE----THIS SHOULD BE THE YEAR WE CASH IN RUNNING THE BALL

 

THE KICKERS----very satisfied with YOON & NEWSOME---Yoon was near 90%--Newsome had a good average 45 but too many returns dropped it to 38---look for more hang time and better coverage to get him back to 45 net

 

 

THE DEFENSE

 

Ok here we need some help

 

First good thing is ELKO---My god BVG was awful and he is GONE GONE GONE!

 

That alone should cause improvement, Elko is a good DC and that should show from the temple game as a big upgrade....

 

DALIN HAYES & NYLES MORGAN----these two have the potential to be special all season....

 

Really LIKE OUR CORNERS---best position group on the defense IMO and these guys are pretty good----Watkins/ Crawford/Love /Vaughn Etc I really like this group---should be a big help for Elko to build around....

 

________________________________

 

Safety not so excited--weakest position group on the team IMO---Coleman was so horrid at corner as a youngster, I have to be convinced there----Studstill maybe----this one needs work and hope and maybe eventually some help from the corners....

 

DLINE is serviceable---but not exciting after D Hayes---and Tranquill may be good as a rover we have to see....all those injuries and then even if he is perfect for the rover can he HOLD UP PHYSICALLY? time will tell

 

 

OFFENSE----A all around ---they could be great

 

KICKING GAME---B---pretty solid both kicking and returns

 

Defense----C ????

 

Concerns yes but plenty to like about this teams potential IMHO

 

aloha

[tneun89 1,118]

Offense: B+

 

Really high on the running backs, wide receivers and tight ends. Love Josh Adams and think he can easily surpass 1,000 yards. I have high hopes for Dexter Williams and Tony Jones as well. I love ESB and think he will leave for the NFL after this season. Hopefully Stepherson is out of the doghouse by September - he is the only speedster who can take the top off the defense. I think Claypool will breakout this year, and I am actually high on Miles Boykin after how he looked all spring. Alize Mack will go pro after this year, and I hope Chip Long really does emphasize the tight end position. I think Durham Smythe will also be solid.

 

My grade would be higher, but I think Wimbush will experience some growing pains (I am still very optimistic about him), especially against Georgia in week two, as they have one of the best defenses in the country. On paper, I am high on the OL, but year after year, it is supposed to be our bread and butter and they fail to live up to the hype. I am hoping that that was more a product of BK and his offense. I am also worried Kraemer is not a true tackle and he could have some growing pains as well against the Georgia DL.

 

Defense: C+

 

Very high on Daelin Hayes - I think he could be special and have a Stephon Tutt-type sophomore year. We absolutely need him to have 8/9/10 sacks because he is the only true pass rusher. I am also high on the linebackers and cornerbacks. I am drinking the Tranquill kool aid after spring and Nyles Morgan is a beast and true leader. Julian Love, Shaun Crawford, Nick Watkins, Donte Vaughn, Troy Pride - love all five of those guys at CB.

 

DL depth is a huge concern, and it got worse with the news about Cage. Tillery needs to have a huge year, and Ewell better come ready to play. Safeties are a big liability - I am not high on any of them honestly. Wouldn't mind shifting Julian Love over to free safety.

 

Special Teams: A-

 

I think people have forgotten about CJ Sanders, but he has been phenomenal in the return game. I hope he goes back to punt returner because I don't think Finke brings nearly the game breaking ability that CJ does. High on Newsome, but he was too inconsistent last year. Yoon looked good for the most part, but worried about his injuries. The kicker in the spring game looked good though (a walk on I believe).

 

Honestly, nowhere to go but up for the coverage units. Really need to put some playmakers on those teams and not just freshman. Alabama and Ohio State use their starters on those teams and it makes an incredible difference. Would love to see a lot of starters on those teams - guys who want to be out there and take pride in being on those teams.

 

Coaching: B

 

High on Elko and Long and Polian. Drinking the kool aid on all three. Not so high on BK, for obvious reasons. I hope he gets out of the way, especially on offense. If I see us line up in shotgun on the opposing team's 2 yard line and throw it all four times, I will burn Utica to the ground.

[FaithInIrish Forever 5,573]

We go as far as the defense takes us.

 

 

The offense is alot like 2012.

 

We're tall but we're not particularly fast. X factors: Cameron Smith WR Transfer ASU Freddie Canteen Michigan. Can Stepherson and Jones/Mack stay in the football program? I hope so.. New QB, Good O-line, Nice Rbs. Good Tight ends

 

B+ to A-

 

Special Teams : has solid potiential. Sanders needs to be decisive and not turn the ball over. Newsome and Yoon and the New Recruit Kick-off guy will be fine

 

B- to B+

 

Defense: Can we play with fire and fundamentals. Can we keep the points down? Last summer under BVG I would of said no way! This year Elko gives me a good feeling

 

 

Talent B- Coaching A

 

Average B

 

 

 

If Defense allows less then 20-22 points 10+ wins

If Defense allows 23-26 points- 7-9 Wins

If Defense allows 27+ Points ?-6 Wins

Edited June 27, 2017 by FaithInIrishForever

[dboe34 0]

I think you all make very valid points in every category, I just would grade it out differently.

 

Offense: B for the simple fact of the unknown. I think we will always be in the game with this offense but are they a 20 point team or a 40 point team. I think both are possible and that 30 range would be nice.

 

Defense: C- at this point. We need a lot of promise to payoff for sure. They have the potential but if we can even be top 40 this year, I wouldn't be shocked because of the talent... more shocked because we did it!

 

Special Teams: B+ because I don't know what to expect. I feel we have been more solid here but can we take over big games with special teams this year?

[coltssb 1,125]

I think you all make very valid points in every category, I just would grade it out differently.

 

Offense: B for the simple fact of the unknown. I think we will always be in the game with this offense but are they a 20 point team or a 40 point team. I think both are possible and that 30 range would be nice.

 

Defense: C- at this point. We need a lot of promise to payoff for sure. They have the potential but if we can even be top 40 this year, I wouldn't be shocked because of the talent... more shocked because we did it!

 

Special Teams: B+ because I don't know what to expect. I feel we have been more solid here but can we take over big games with special teams this year?

 

 

I agree with your assessment. Need to show me.

 

Offense - B

our offense always relies heavily on the qb, and I haven't seen Winbush since the Umass game. I wasn't sold on his mechanics then and I'm not totally sold on it now. Too much Tommy Rees side arm for my liking. Also, the o-line always gets hyped every year only to falling to live up to expectations. Everyone else gets high grades.

 

Special teams B+. Would get an A but BK doesn't ever seem to really focus on the return game. We now have the players. Just not the scheme.

 

Defense D

 

Show me something. If we played a top 10 team would we hold them to under 21? I'm not so sure. There's some nice pieces there, but have these guys ever played as unit in 4 years? A lot to work on. No pass rush for certain. Rb's constantly torched. No push on the d-line. Linebackers getting gobbled up instead of she's blocking. They would had gotten an F if not for Elko. I do think he will provide a calming effect during the season. I'm just not sure how much uncle Rico is out of there heads yet. He sure screwed us up technically and fundamentally.

 

My grading scale is based on how I would coach. I'm not very satisfied as you can see.

[corysold 0]

I agree with your assessment. Need to show me.

 

Offense - B

our offense always relies heavily on the qb, and I haven't seen Winbush since the Umass game. I wasn't sold on his mechanics then and I'm not totally sold on it now. Too much Tommy Rees side arm for my liking. Also, the o-line always gets hyped every year only to falling to live up to expectations. Everyone else gets high grades.

 

Special teams B+. Would get an A but BK doesn't ever seem to really focus on the return game. We now have the players. Just not the scheme.

 

Defense D

 

Show me something. If we played a top 10 team would we hold them to under 21? I'm not so sure. There's some nice pieces there, but have these guys ever played as unit in 4 years? A lot to work on. No pass rush for certain. Rb's constantly torched. No push on the d-line. Linebackers getting gobbled up instead of she's blocking. They would had gotten an F if not for Elko. I do think he will provide a calming effect during the season. I'm just not sure how much uncle Rico is out of there heads yet. He sure screwed us up technically and fundamentally.

 

My grading scale is based on how I would coach. I'm not very satisfied as you can see.

 

But in today's game, how often does anyone keep a top 10 team to 21? Clemson got 35 on Alabama. Ohio St go 30 on Michigan. Clemson got 31 on Ohio St. Those were the top 3 scoring defenses last year and none of them could hold a top 10 team even under 30. Top 10 teams can score. Ohio St only held 1 of the 4 top 10 teams under 21. Alabama gave up 21+ to three ranked teams. Michigan gave up 30+ to 2 of the 3 ranked team they played.

 

Elko has posted good defenses in the past without near the talent he will have this year. He took Wake Forest from 60th his first year to 23rd last year, playing some top tier ACC teams always with less talent. No reason he can't do the same with this group. Not many superstars, if any, but plenty of talented players who should be able to flourish with proper coaching.

Edited June 27, 2017 by corysold

[Handsome Jack 0]

But in today's game, how often does anyone keep a top 10 team to 21? Clemson got 35 on Alabama. Ohio St go 30 on Michigan. Clemson got 31 on Ohio St. Those were the top 3 scoring defenses last year and none of them could hold a top 10 team even under 30. Top 10 teams can score. Ohio St only held 1 of the 4 top 10 teams under 21. Alabama gave up 21+ to three ranked teams. Michigan gave up 30+ to 2 of the 3 ranked team they played.

 

Elko has posted good defenses in the past without near the talent he will have this year. He took Wake Forest from 60th his first year to 23rd last year, playing some top tier ACC teams always with less talent. No reason he can't do the same with this group. Not many superstars, if any, but plenty of talented players who should be able to flourish with proper coaching.

Clemson and Ohio State are superpowers. Of course they are going to drop 30 on just about everybody. Same with Alabama and probably Michigan soon.

 

Our problem isn't the number 21. It's having 50 dropped on us by average teams.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Handsome Jack

[goirish83 0]

Call me crazy bit I'm excited to see what the defense brings to the table, I'm very high on Elko and think he can work wonders. He did so much with so little at wake so even with the admitted lack of defensive talent on the d line and at safety I think he can make things happen.

 

I'm excited about the fact that wimbush is a first year starter, not necessarily because I think he will be a superstar but just for the simple fact that Kelly's teams seem to do better with first year starter under center. Combined with a deep receiving group and strong stable of running backs I think this offense can be pretty special, assuming Kelly can stay hands off and let chip long run the show

[corysold 0]

Clemson and Ohio State are superpowers. Of course they are going to drop 30 on just about everybody. Same with Alabama and probably Michigan soon.

 

Our problem isn't the number 21. It's having 50 dropped on us by average teams.

 

Please let me know the last time an average team scored 50 on Notre Dame in a regulation game.

 

And, no s*** Clemson, Ohio St and Alabama are really good. That's why they're in the top 10, which is what we were talking about.

 

Try to follow along.

[roarcity269 0]

Please let me know the last time an average team scored 50 on Notre Dame in a regulation game.

 

And, no s*** Clemson, Ohio St and Alabama are really good. That's why they're in the top 10, which is what we were talking about.

 

Try to follow along.

 

worst ones i could find are 2014 - North Carolina, Arizona State, Northwestern...

 

didn't all score 50 and please note I'm Not trying to argue for or against a point here. your fact just sparked my interest.

[corysold 0]

worst ones i could find are 2014 - North Carolina, Arizona State, Northwestern...

 

didn't all score 50 and please note I'm Not trying to argue for or against a point here. your fact just sparked my interest.

 

Right, you can't find it because it hasn't happened.

 

Gave up 50 to Texas in 2 OT, only 37 in regulation.

 

Gave up 55 to Arizona St, but they were ranked #11, so hardly average.

 

It's one thing to be a crappy poster, its another to be a crappy poster who posts falsehoods on a regular basis.

[Handsome Jack 0]

Please let me know the last time an average team scored 50 on Notre Dame in a regulation game. 'Only 37 in regulation' you say. ROFL.

 

And, no s*** Clemson, Ohio St and Alabama are really good. That's why they're in the top 10, which is what we were talking about.

 

Try to follow along.

 

I didn't say regulation. FIFTY points to a poor team. They fored their coach. Stop defending the indefensible. I was right. Just admit it.

 

And we gave up 55 to mighty 11th ranked Arizona State. So that makes it ok.

 

I'm afraid to even look up how many times we've given up 38 or more.

 

'Only gave up 37 in regulation'. ROFL.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Handsome Jack

[coltssb 1,125]

But in today's game, how often does anyone keep a top 10 team to 21? Clemson got 35 on Alabama. Ohio St go 30 on Michigan. Clemson got 31 on Ohio St. Those were the top 3 scoring defenses last year and none of them could hold a top 10 team even under 30. Top 10 teams can score. Ohio St only held 1 of the 4 top 10 teams under 21. Alabama gave up 21+ to three ranked teams. Michigan gave up 30+ to 2 of the 3 ranked team they played.

 

Elko has posted good defenses in the past without near the talent he will have this year. He took Wake Forest from 60th his first year to 23rd last year, playing some top tier ACC teams always with less talent. No reason he can't do the same with this group. Not many superstars, if any, but plenty of talented players who should be able to flourish with proper coaching.

 

 

 

Right you are. But I haven't seen an ND team shut the door consistently on any top 25 teams. Let alone top 10 teams, which is who we are striving to be or beat. Like I said, I'm in wait and see approach. And based on the past three seasons, we are in the D and F range. I like Elko. I think he will eventually do wonders here. But im not sure he can do it all in one year. Until I see the first game and see his adjustments I can't go higher.

[corysold 0]

I didn't say regulation. FIFTY points to a poor team. They fored their coach. Stop defending the indefensible. I was right. Just admit it.

 

And we gave up 55 to mighty 11th ranked Arizona State. So that makes it ok.

 

I'm afraid to even look up how many times we've given up 38 or more.

 

'Only gave up 37 in regulation'. ROFL.

 

You weren't right.

 

Since 2012, ND has given up 38 points 11 times. Alabama has done it 8.

[corysold 0]

Right you are. But I haven't seen an ND team shut the door consistently on any top 25 teams. Let alone top 10 teams, which is who we are striving to be or beat. Like I said, I'm in wait and see approach. And based on the past three seasons, we are in the D and F range. I like Elko. I think he will eventually do wonders here. But im not sure he can do it all in one year. Until I see the first game and see his adjustments I can't go higher.

 

Not in a while, but in 2012 they did.

 

3 to Michigan St

6 to Michigan

13 to Oklahoma

13 to Stanford

 

Since then, not so much as you suggest.

[Handsome Jack 0]

You weren't right.

 

Since 2012, ND has given up 38 points 11 times. Alabama has done it 8.

 

How about 30 or more?

[corysold 0]

How about 30 or more?

 

How about you do the research?

 

What number best fits your narrative? Use that one. 50 didn't work. 38 was a little better. Try 21, I bet ND's given up 21 a bunch of times.

 

Everyone knows ND's defense sucked under BVG. I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to prove. Just stop using things that aren't true to try and make a point. The defense was bad, no need to use hyperbole to try and make it seem worse.

Edited June 27, 2017 by corysold

[Officer Tim McCarthy 5]

Data don't lie. Last two seasons-

 

Given up 27+ : 14/25 games

Given up 20+ : 18/25 games.

 

Teams held under 20

Nevada

NCST (monsoon)

Stanford (lotta injuries)

Army

Texas

Wake

BC

 

The BVG D is up there with worst ever on any team. In history.

 

Can only go up from here. AMIRITE?

[Frankus 210]

I'm afraid to even look up how many times we've given up 38 or more.

 

'Only gave up 37 in regulation'. ROFL.

 

Kelly's teams have given up 38 or more point 12 times, 5 of which occurred in the last 2 years- all losses. He's only won 2 games of those 12 , both in 2014 to Navy and North Carolina.

[corysold 0]

Data don't lie. Last two seasons-

 

Given up 27+ : 14/25 games

Given up 20+ : 18/25 games.

 

Teams held under 20

Nevada

NCST (monsoon)

Stanford (lotta injuries)

Army

Texas

Wake

BC

 

The BVG D is up there with worst ever on any team. In history.

 

Can only go up from here. AMIRITE?

 

BVG wasn't good, but it is this type of stuff that is just ridiculous.

 

In his 3 years, ND was 84th, 39th and 61st in scoring defense. Pretty bad, but only once were they even in the bottom half of the country.

 

For comparison, the last two years, Oregon was 116th and 126th in the country. You don't think they'd rather have what ND was selling? And it wasn't because they play fast either. They were 100+ in yards allowed per play, ND was 45th last year. They gave up 40+ 12 times in the last two years. 50+ 4 times. 60+ once and 70 one game.

 

BVG needed to be fired, but you guys need to watch some more football. Notre Dame isn't the only program out there that struggles from time to time.

Edited June 28, 2017 by corysold

[FaithInIrish Forever 5,573]

BVG wasn't good, but it is this type of stuff that is just ridiculous.

 

In his 3 years, ND was 84th, 39th and 61st in scoring defense. Pretty bad, but only once were they even in the bottom half of the country.

 

For comparison, the last two years, Oregon was 116th and 126th in the country. You don't think they'd rather have what ND was selling? And it wasn't because they play fast either. They were 100+ in yards allowed per play, ND was 45th last year.

 

BVG needed to be fired, but you guys need to watch some more football. Notre Dame isn't the only program out there that struggles from time to time.

 

Yep. 18 points allowed will put you top 10 in the country these days most years. That's where the sights need to be. As Cory says BVG wasn't going to get there but wasn't horrific either most of his time.

[coltssb 1,125]

BVG wasn't good, but it is this type of stuff that is just ridiculous.

 

In his 3 years, ND was 84th, 39th and 61st in scoring defense. Pretty bad, but only once were they even in the bottom half of the country.

 

For comparison, the last two years, Oregon was 116th and 126th in the country. You don't think they'd rather have what ND was selling? And it wasn't because they play fast either. They were 100+ in yards allowed per play, ND was 45th last year.

 

BVG needed to be fired, but you guys need to watch some more football. Notre Dame isn't the only program out there that struggles from time to time.

 

 

 

Ok but we don't play in the pac16 either. Imagine if we played a team like North Carolina, or better yet, ASU, USC, TT, Cal on a weekly basis? Might of gotten ugly like Oregons d. We didn't fare well against teams that ran pass happy offenses like that. Our defense became good with just firing BVG. It will be better with Long. But I digress. We are arguing over the something. We stunk on d for awhile and it can only get better.

[davislove 0]

BVG wasn't good, but it is this type of stuff that is just ridiculous.

 

In his 3 years, ND was 84th, 39th and 61st in scoring defense. Pretty bad, but only once were they even in the bottom half of the country.

 

For comparison, the last two years, Oregon was 116th and 126th in the country. You don't think they'd rather have what ND was selling? And it wasn't because they play fast either. They were 100+ in yards allowed per play, ND was 45th last year. They gave up 40+ 12 times in the last two years. 50+ 4 times. 60+ once and 70 one game.

 

BVG needed to be fired, but you guys need to watch some more football. Notre Dame isn't the only program out there that struggles from time to time.

 

I agree. Some people opinions are based strictly on emotion and not facts.

 

I'm like you, no doubt BVG should have been fired but the defense was injury prone and lacked talent.

 

Jaylon Smith, Shawn Crawford and Sheldon Day all highly ranked players excelled under BVG. Of course BVG should have helped in recruiting better players and/or changed his coaching philosophy to suit his talent.

 

I guess i'm playing devils advocate however until we upgrade the caliber of players we get on defense I don't expect Elko or anyone to build anything special. Let the offense carry us but unlike the past, don't let our defense lose games for us.

[corysold 0]

Ok but we don't play in the pac16 either. Imagine if we played a team like North Carolina, or better yet, ASU, USC, TT, Cal on a weekly basis? Might of gotten ugly like Oregons d. We didn't fare well against teams that ran pass happy offenses like that. Our defense became good with just firing BVG. It will be better with Long. But I digress. We are arguing over the something. We stunk on d for awhile and it can only get better.

 

Maybe, but Oregon did give up 33.8 to non-Pac12 teams, which included games vs. Eastern Washington and Georgia St. That would have been good for 97th worse in the nation.

 

I only bring these things up because I enjoy doing the research and seeing how ND actually compares to other teams. I know ND was really bad, historically bad by ND standards. I'm not trying to defend that at all.

[Frankus 210]

Ok but we don't play in the pac16 either. Imagine if we played a team like North Carolina, or better yet, ASU, USC, TT, Cal on a weekly basis? Might of gotten ugly like Oregons d. We didn't fare well against teams that ran pass happy offenses like that. Our defense became good with just firing BVG. It will be better with Long. But I digress. We are arguing over the something. We stunk on d for awhile and it can only get better.

 

According to the final AP Poll, Oregon played two Top 5 teams - USC and Washington- and three other Top 25 teams- Stanford, Colorado and Utah.

 

We played one Top 5 team-USC- and two other Top 25 teams - Stanford and Miami.