Urban Meyer's Reaction to Using Former Players

[davislove]

Exactly. There are at least a dozen reasons and most of them have been discussed ad nauseum on every ND message board.

 

I honestly can't believe that Davis and Dardo would actually ask these questions in a serious manner.

 

You and your dozens of reasons are starting to remind me of the kid in jr. high who claimed he had the hottest girlfriend. The only problem is she lives in Canada.

 

Show us some boobies or give it up dude.

[davislove]

Women's basketball and lacrosse compared to college football? That's a false equivalency....

 

Higher revenues for Football means different sets of expectations (this has effects ranging from more coaching stability of other sports, to just the pressure itself)

 

Recruiting...The elite players for football would rather go to a school that doesn't force them to study. In contrast, you can argue that the elite players for women's basketball and Lacrosse don't quite have that same hangup. This is due to a lack of a HUGE professional league like the NFL, so the elite kids in women's basketball and lacrosse aren't just in it to make it to the professional level nearly as much as football

 

There are so many more reasons, and branching issues from the reasons I named above

 

Be careful.

 

So what about Duke Basketball? How do they win with such high academic standards? How do they get elite players? Shouldn't they want to go to a school that doesn't force them to study? LOL. If you been paying attention lately, Notre Dame ain't exactly twisting guys arms to study.

 

You guys seem to believe that every top player would be Irish if all things were equal. Brian Kelly recruits pretty good. Getting good guys is not his problem. He hasn't played a team all year the doesn't have the talent advantage over. And quite frankly, Kelly rubs people the wrong way. I'm a ND fan but could see me allowing my son to play for him. That's his problem.

 

Charlie Weis was a great recruiter so save all this limitation BS.

 

Hey, did you see all the guys arrested this summer? Mike Floyd getting that lame suspension? 3 players assaulting cops and the only one kicked off the team is the guy who's scholarship was worth more then he was to the team.

 

Remember Shembo and that cover up? Would Joseph fauria been kicked off the team under Kelly? Nope.

 

 

Didn't Harbaugh turn Stanford around? Doesn't David Shaw have more wins the Kelly with a year less as head coach?

 

So please stop acting as though BK is facing insurmountable odds. Every December there are job openings. He can throw his name out there if it's too much.

[davislove]

.

But who are you going to get, who would be an upgrade, to replace a guy who has had two unbeaten seasons........that would actually come here?

 

Meyer said no. Twice.

Stoops said no.

Saban isn't coming.

Harbaugh isn't coming.

Fisher isn't coming.

Swinney isn't coming.

Gruden isn't coming.

Peterson isn't coming.

Fitzgerald isnt coming.

Petrino would not be considered.

Neither would Tressell.

Chryst is at his Alma Mater.

 

ND is just not an attractive coaching destination with coaches who have national championship aspirations. There are reasons all of those coaches either said no or would not come here.

 

Soooooooooooooooo. You think those are the only guys who could do better then four wins at this point? Is anyone calling for Greg Hudson's head? He's done better then the more recognized BVG.

 

Just stop.

[Handsome Jack]

Be careful.

 

So what about Duke Basketball? How do they win with such high academic standards? How do they get elite players? Shouldn't they want to go to a school that doesn't force them to study? LOL. If you been paying attention lately, Notre Dame ain't exactly twisting guys arms to study.

 

You guys seem to believe that every top player would be Irish if all things were equal. Brian Kelly recruits pretty good. Getting good guys is not his problem. He hasn't played a team all year the doesn't have the talent advantage over. And quite frankly, Kelly rubs people the wrong way. I'm a ND fan but could see me allowing my son to play for him. That's his problem.

 

Charlie Weis was a great recruiter so save all this limitation BS.

 

Hey, did you see all the guys arrested this summer? Mike Floyd getting that lame suspension? 3 players assaulting cops and the only one kicked off the team is the guy who's scholarship was worth more then he was to the team.

 

Remember Shembo and that cover up? Would Joseph fauria been kicked off the team under Kelly? Nope.

 

 

Didn't Harbaugh turn Stanford around? Doesn't David Shaw have more wins the Kelly with a year less as head coach?

 

So please stop acting as though BK is facing insurmountable odds. Every December there are job openings. He can throw his name out there if it's too much.

 

Are you honestly comparing Duke basketball which has a 12 player roster that goes about 8 deep in rotation and most of those are 1 or 2 and done to ND football which has a roster of 85 or so?

[goirish83]

I'm not saying it's good enough. ND is saying it's good enough. Look, he's not going anywhere. He will be the coach next season. Should he be? Maybe and maybe not. You say no? Ok, fair enough. I'm ok with some new blood.

But who are you going to get, who would be an upgrade, to replace a guy who has had two unbeaten seasons........that would actually come here?

 

Meyer said no. Twice.

Stoops said no.

Saban isn't coming.

Harbaugh isn't coming.

Fisher isn't coming.

Swinney isn't coming.

Gruden isn't coming.

Peterson isn't coming.

Fitzgerald isnt coming.

Petrino would not be considered.

Neither would Tressell.

Chryst is at his Alma Mater.

 

ND is just not an attractive coaching destination with coaches who have national championship aspirations. There are reasons all of those coaches either said no or would not come here.

 

In this statement you say that you don't think it's good enough but in the same post you essentially say we can't get anyone better so we should just stay the course, that's accepting mediocrity. Sometimes you have to take a chance, no those guys won't come but that doesn't mean you can't find an upgrade somewhere else. It's just that names that aren't on that list are more risky but I think at this point it's worth the risk.

 

And maybe I'm reading it wrong but who had 2 undefeated seasons?

[davislove]

Are you honestly comparing Duke basketball which has a 12 player roster that goes about 8 deep in rotation and most of those are 1 or 2 and done to ND football which has a roster of 85 or so?

 

Yes. Numbers don't matter. If duke had 85 basketball players they'd still be good. The argument was nd cant win because of academics which I've proven to be false multiple times. Now you want to move the goalpost and restrict it just to football. Fine. I'll play your game. Again Stanford. I'm not gonna let you cherry pick my post. Deal with the whole shabang. Don't that school up north have a good academic rep?

 

Vanderbilt and northwestern aren't bad programs because of their academic standards. They don't make it a priority.

 

So this is yor homework for you and the others who think nd is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

 

BRING SOME PROOF! And show your work.

[Handsome Jack]

Yes. Numbers don't matter. If duke had 85 basketball players they'd still be good. The argument was nd cant win because of academics which I've proven to be false multiple times. Now you want to move the goalpost and restrict it just to football. Fine. I'll play your game. Again Stanford. I'm not gonna let you cherry pick my post. Deal with the whole shabang. Don't that school up north have a good academic rep?

 

Vanderbilt and northwestern aren't bad programs because of their academic standards. They don't make it a priority.

 

So this is yor homework for you and the others who think nd is playing with one arm tied behind its back.

 

BRING SOME PROOF! And show your work.

 

You haven't proven anything to be false. You haven't proven anything.

 

I'm not moving goal posts. Its apples to oranges. There is a big difference between Mike K, who is a 'god' not only at Duke but in all of cbb and the team usa coach, bringing in 3 or 4 qualified great players a year and keeping them eligible for a season or two versus Brian Kelly having to bring in 23 or 24 qualified great players and keeping them eligible for 3 or 4 years.

 

Yes, Stanford has a good football program. They also allow their players to take classes and majors that ND would never allow. See, getting into Stanford is what's tough. Once you get in, there are some pretty easy going classes and studies.

Also, Stanford now allows their players to graduate in 5 years as opposed to the 4 years that ND requires. That's a big difference in regard to fall work load.

Even with these structures, they haven't sniffed an ncaa title or playoff.

 

ND football players routinely get kicked out or suspended for a full season for infractions that other coaches running other prograns would tell their universities to '**** off, I'll handle it.'

 

ND doesn't redshirt or greyshirt.

 

ND doesn't accept Jucos or transfers.

 

ND refuses to over sign as a hedge against teansfers, injuries or suspensions.

 

ND is notoriously cheap with coaching salaries.

 

The s&c program is lagging behind most power 5 universities. ND players can't even workout when they want to. Many players have memberships to local gyms.

 

My proof is the product on the field for the last 20 years since Malloy, Beauchamp and Wadsworth decided to Ivy up the university. My proof is ZERO major bowl wins since 1994. My proof is those in the administration coming out publicly and saying that they know that they can't compete with the big boys.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Handsome Jack

[Handsome Jack]

In this statement you say that you don't think it's good enough but in the same post you essentially say we can't get anyone better so we should just stay the course, that's accepting mediocrity. Sometimes you have to take a chance, no those guys won't come but that doesn't mean you can't find an upgrade somewhere else. It's just that names that aren't on that list are more risky but I think at this point it's worth the risk.

 

And maybe I'm reading it wrong but who had 2 undefeated seasons?

 

Kelly had an undefeated season at Cincinnati and an undefeated season at ND.

 

I agree that ND will have to take a chance on a young and hungry coach.

[davislove]

You haven't proven anything to be false. You haven't proven anything.

 

I'm not moving goal posts. Its apples to oranges. There is a big difference between Mike K, who is a 'god' not only at Duke but in all of cbb and the team usa coach, bringing in 3 or 4 qualified great players a year and keeping them eligible for a season or two versus Brian Kelly having to bring in 23 or 24 qualified great players and keeping them eligible for 3 or 4 years.

 

All you are saying is BK is a lousy coach. NO team brings in 23 or 24 "great" players a year. Coach K uses a larger portion of his roster then BK does. Hell, I could win if I got 20 plus studs a year. I'd work cheaper then Kelly.

 

Yes, Stanford has a good football program. They also allow their players to take classes and majors that ND would never allow. See, getting into Stanford is what's tough. Once you get in, there are some pretty easy going classes and studies.

Also, Stanford now allows their players to graduate in 5 years as opposed to the 4 years that ND requires. That's a big difference in regard to fall work load.

Even with these structures, they haven't sniffed an ncaa title or playoff.

 

:violin:

Downplaying Stanfords academics is a losing hand. I looked at the Stanford roster and I didn't see these easy majors that you speak of. To be honest, we have our share of theatre majors.

 

Kids enroll early and take summer classes so the workload is manageable for everyone and you know that. There is no time limit on graduating. You have four years of eligibility and you have to take a certain amount of courses (credits) per quarter/semester. That's the NCAA. So really a player can take 10 years to graduate but you can't play football . Don't you have to be a graduate to be a graduate transfer? That's a strike against going to Stanford--not an advantage.

 

We just want a team to play to it's level sans excuses.

 

ND football players routinely get kicked out or suspended for a full season for infractions that other coaches running other prograns would tell their universities to '**** off, I'll handle it.'

 

See, that's something you can't prove. Maybe ND players should stop breaking so many rules. It has increased under coach Kelly. And there has been plenty of slaps on the wrist for the important players at ND. Lets be honest

 

ND doesn't redshirt or greyshirt.

 

this is whats called throwing $hit on the wall and seeing what sticks. ND does redshirt even if they don't call it that. We don't greyshirt but most schools don't so you can't call it ND's disadvantage.

 

 

ND doesn't accept Jucos or transfers.

 

Is that why we loss to Navy? Not enough juco's? BK is not a coach who can teach his system in a year or two. Also I think ND do take transfers but most JUCO's are kids who couldn't get into college due to grades, so you do the math.

 

Amir Carlisle?

 

ND is notoriously cheap with coaching salaries.

 

How much should Ty and chuck really been paid? ND, and any school will pay whatever to keep a coach. Bama paid saban what they do because if they didn't someone else will.

 

The s&c program is lagging behind most power 5 universities. ND players can't even workout when they want to. Many players have memberships to local gyms.

 

well then it seems they can work out whenever they want.

 

Now what you are doing is called grasping for straws. The NCAA put limits on the amount of time players can work out. Didn't Michigan get into hot water over this a few years back?

 

Where do you get this stuff? the sports misinformation director?

 

My proof is the product on the field for the last 20 years since Malloy, Beauchamp and Wadsworth decided to Ivy up the university. My proof is ZERO major bowl wins since 1994. My proof is those in the administration coming out publicly and saying that they know that they can't compete with the big boys.

 

I want to know the proof of the alcohol you're consuming. How is bringing in borderline students "Ivying" up ND? How is joining conferences other then the Ivy league an attempt to ivy up?

 

Dude, you tried but you don't have a case. Under the right coach we could a great team. But finding the right coach is hard. Bama went years looking for the right person. Miami, Texas is still searching. Michigan. I've said it before as these concussion become more of a story, a lot of good players are going to start opting for strong academic schools and ND will be in the drivers seat.

 

But today we have a coach that has topped out at being 8 win guy. That's great for and Ivy league. Lets see how long we stay ivy

[Handsome Jack]

All you are saying is BK is a lousy coach. NO team brings in 23 or 24 "great" players a year. Coach K uses a larger portion of his roster then BK does. Hell, I could win if I got 20 plus studs a year. I'd work cheaper then Kelly.

 

 

 

:violin:

Downplaying Stanfords academics is a losing hand. I looked at the Stanford roster and I didn't see these easy majors that you speak of. To be honest, we have our share of theatre majors.

 

Kids enroll early and take summer classes so the workload is manageable for everyone and you know that. There is no time limit on graduating. You have four years of eligibility and you have to take a certain amount of courses (credits) per quarter/semester. That's the NCAA. So really a player can take 10 years to graduate but you can't play football . Don't you have to be a graduate to be a graduate transfer? That's a strike against going to Stanford--not an advantage.

 

We just want a team to play to it's level sans excuses.

 

 

 

See, that's something you can't prove. Maybe ND players should stop breaking so many rules. It has increased under coach Kelly. And there has been plenty of slaps on the wrist for the important players at ND. Lets be honest

 

 

 

this is whats called throwing $hit on the wall and seeing what sticks. ND does redshirt even if they don't call it that. We don't greyshirt but most schools don't so you can't call it ND's disadvantage.

 

 

 

Is that why we loss to Navy? Not enough juco's? BK is not a coach who can teach his system in a year or two. Also I think ND do take transfers but most JUCO's are kids who couldn't get into college due to grades, so you do the math.

 

Amir Carlisle?

 

 

 

How much should Ty and chuck really been paid? ND, and any school will pay whatever to keep a coach. Bama paid saban what they do because if they didn't someone else will.

 

 

 

well then it seems they can work out whenever they want.

 

Now what you are doing is called grasping for straws. The NCAA put limits on the amount of time players can work out. Didn't Michigan get into hot water over this a few years back?

 

Where do you get this stuff? the sports misinformation director?

 

 

 

I want to know the proof of the alcohol you're consuming. How is bringing in borderline students "Ivying" up ND? How is joining conferences other then the Ivy league an attempt to ivy up?

 

Dude, you tried but you don't have a case. Under the right coach we could a great team. But finding the right coach is hard. Bama went years looking for the right person. Miami, Texas is still searching. Michigan. I've said it before as these concussion become more of a story, a lot of good players are going to start opting for strong academic schools and ND will be in the drivers seat.

 

But today we have a coach that has topped out at being 8 win guy. That's great for and Ivy league. Lets see how long we stay ivy

 

Ok.

 

nt....

Edited November 19, 2016 by Handsome Jack

[echo88]

You haven't proven anything to be false. You haven't proven anything.

 

I'm not moving goal posts. Its apples to oranges. There is a big difference between Mike K, who is a 'god' not only at Duke but in all of cbb and the team usa coach, bringing in 3 or 4 qualified great players a year and keeping them eligible for a season or two versus Brian Kelly having to bring in 23 or 24 qualified great players and keeping them eligible for 3 or 4 years.

 

Yes, Stanford has a good football program. They also allow their players to take classes and majors that ND would never allow. See, getting into Stanford is what's tough. Once you get in, there are some pretty easy going classes and studies.

Also, Stanford now allows their players to graduate in 5 years as opposed to the 4 years that ND requires. That's a big difference in regard to fall work load.

Even with these structures, they haven't sniffed an ncaa title or playoff.

 

 

1) Nope. Gimme a source because that statement is ludicrous.

 

2) Actually, staying eligible with the Stanford football team is tougher than it is at ND. Stanford requires a higher GPA to stay eligible. Look it up.

 

Stanford has fared better than ND and it is tougher on football players than we are. That is a fact. I remember back when the "wait til the fallout from losing Harbaugh takes hold" posters were in full effect. I was too busy calling out BK before it was cool to pay that misguided train of thought much attention...

[Handsome Jack]

1) Nope. Gimme a source because that statement is ludicrous.

 

2) Actually, staying eligible with the Stanford football team is tougher than it is at ND. Stanford requires a higher GPA to stay eligible. Look it up.

 

Stanford has fared better than ND and it is tougher on football players than we are. That is a fact. I remember back when the "wait til the fallout from losing Harbaugh takes hold" posters were in full effect. I was too busy calling out BK before it was cool to pay that misguided train of thought much attention...

 

The source is Rivals Premium. Believe it or don't believe it. I just dont see how Davis or anyone else can't understand that our kids are working their asses off to pass their classes and sweating out exams while sec and Ohio State kids are majoring in football and lifting. We all saw Alabama in 2012 and Ohio State last year. It was men against boys.

 

By the way, Stanford football players are actually given a sheet with the easy classes and majors on it for them to choose from. I can't 'prove' that but it was also premium info.

[echo88]

The source is Rivals Premium. Believe it or don't believe it. I just dont see how Davis or anyone else can't understand that our kids are working their asses off to pass their classes and sweating out exams while sec and Ohio State kids are majoring in football and lifting. We all saw Alabama in 2012 and Ohio State last year. It was men against boys.

 

By the way, Stanford football players are actually given a sheet with the easy classes and majors on it for them to choose from. I can't 'prove' that but it was also premium info.

 

Naturally....

[Dardo]

The source is Rivals Premium. Believe it or don't believe it. I just dont see how Davis or anyone else can't understand that our kids are working their asses off to pass their classes and sweating out exams while sec and Ohio State kids are majoring in football and lifting. We all saw Alabama in 2012 and Ohio State last year. It was men against boys.

 

By the way, Stanford football players are actually given a sheet with the easy classes and majors on it for them to choose from. I can't 'prove' that but it was also premium info.

 

But again, we haven't lost to OSU or Bama this year, ND has lost to navy and Duke. Is it really standards putting ND at a disadvantage to navy?

[Handsome Jack]

But again, we haven't lost to OSU or Bama this year, ND has lost to navy and Duke. Is it really standards putting ND at a disadvantage to navy?

 

No and you're right. I'm not really defending Kelly here. I'm not even a fan of his. He can leave or get fired for all I care. I think he is a good coach but he isn't good enough. ND needs a great coach to take us where we want to go.