I've posted on this in the past.

 

Brian Kelly is one of the best in college football at building a program.

 

He had never had the chance to sustain a program at the D1 level.

 

He built ND back to prominence. I think the question needs to be asked if he can sustain it. It seems a bit odd that you can do one, but not the other, but some coaches are just that way.

 

Now there are a lot of outside forces, suspensions, injuries etc that come into play. But I think the question needs to be asked. Besides having better athletes in spots, does this program look any further along in year 5 vs year 3?

 

Still turn it over way to much. Still no consistent run game. Still playing to level of the opponent.

 

I guess my biggest concern is that Kelly is a good coach, but not great. Good coaches are hard to fire because they win 8-9 games a year, but the team stays in limbo and never takes that next step. Think Mark Richt, Frank Beamer, Kirk Ferentz etc. nothing wrong with that type of coach, you just have to set your expectations accordingly.

I disagree with your premise: I don't think Brian Kelly has built a program at ND yet. If he had, he wouldn't be relying on so much youth in his 5th year. The next two years will be telling as to whether he has built a program.

He is relying on so much youth because there have been lots of people leaving early for the NFL and injuries and recruits that bolted before arriving.

This problem, playing freshmen is going to be a continuing concern. As you bring in better talent, read 5* and high 4*, they leave early. We have always been proud about our graduation ranks, but that was because we had people stay for their senior years. Besides the exceptions, people leave early to play in the NFL if they have the talent.

People keep requesting that we recruit more 5*, but for me that is just going to lead to more people leaving early and more freshmen playing.

He is relying on so much youth because there have been lots of people leaving early for the NFL and injuries and recruits that bolted before arriving.

This problem, playing freshmen is going to be a continuing concern. As you bring in better talent, read 5* and high 4*, they leave early. We have always been proud about our graduation ranks, but that was because we had people stay for their senior years. Besides the exceptions, people leave early to play in the NFL if they have the talent.

People keep requesting that we recruit more 5*, but for me that is just going to lead to more people leaving early and more freshmen playing.

 

Who left early for the NFL among the defensive front 7? Tuitt is the only one. Lynch is the only transfer and players get hurt on every team throughout their careers. A good-great program would be able to overcome 1 player leaving early, 1 transfer and 2 career ending injuries (Springman and Hounshell.) Yesterday only 2 upperclassman played in the front 7. Why is that? It's not because we recruited too many 4-5 star players as you imply. It's because the staff has not recruited enough depth over the last 5 years.

but i thought we were an 11-1 team this year? (just lol). We are an 8-9 win talent this season, which has been said for weeks now. Next year we are an 11-12 win team and will prove as much.

 

BK is the best coach that we could hope to ever get considering all the **** he has to deal with. If i were him, Id strongly consider going to Florida (if he fails to make the playoffs next year). Too much talent returning for ND for him to consider leaving.

 

but this thread is truly comical.

Who left early for the NFL among the defensive front 7? Tuitt is the only one. Lynch is the only transfer and players get hurt on every team throughout their careers. A good-great program would be able to overcome 1 player leaving early, 1 transfer and 2 career ending injuries (Springman and Hounshell.) Yesterday only 2 upperclassman played in the front 7. Why is that? It's not because we recruited too many 4-5 star players as you imply. It's because the staff has not recruited enough depth over the last 5 years.

 

 

 

ND just put 8 players into the NFL dumbass.

 

When was the last time an ND coach has done that in one year? (Answer: never) And you tards want to get rid of the guy. (lol)

 

The delusions are hilarious.

ND just put 8 players into the NFL dumbass.

 

When was the last time an ND coach has done that in one year? (Answer: never) And you tards want to get rid of the guy. (lol)

 

The delusions are hilarious.

 

I hereby handoff the "Dick of the Week Award" I won a few weeks back to you. Here you go, dick.

but i thought we were an 11-1 team this year? (just lol). We are an 8-9 win talent this season, which has been said for weeks now. Next year we are an 11-12 win team and will prove as much.

 

BK is the best coach that we could hope to ever get considering all the **** he has to deal with. If i were him, Id strongly consider going to Florida (if he fails to make the playoffs next year). Too much talent returning for ND for him to consider leaving.

 

but this thread is truly comical.

 

I can't comprehend this post (lol). Are you saying him under achieving with the given talent suggests he is the right coach?

 

Which stat measures dumb coaching decisions and fumbling inside the 5 yard line?

 

Who in this thread said they wanted Kelly gone? (Lol, not me)

I understand that bad losses happen to everyone, it's just a kick to the gut. This ranks right up there with Syracuse, uconn and Tulsa and I had hoped that these types of just flat out horrible losses were behind us but they aren't, that hardly means Kelly can't get it done or all is lost. He's done a helluva job building this program up from the depths of drudgery but now just needs to take that final step, I would like to see how next year goes before any serious discussions are had. If he's a mediocre 8-9 win team again next year then it's obvious he can't get it done at this level.

I understand that bad losses happen to everyone, it's just a kick to the gut. This ranks right up there with Syracuse, uconn and Tulsa and I had hoped that these types of just flat out horrible losses were behind us but they aren't, that hardly means Kelly can't get it done or all is lost. He's done a helluva job building this program up from the depths of drudgery but now just needs to take that final step, I would like to see how next year goes before any serious discussions are had. If he's a mediocre 8-9 win team again next year then it's obvious he can't get it done at this level.

 

But has he really brought us out from the depths of drudgery? Other than the 12-0 miracle run and Alabama beat down he is 7-5, 8-4, 8-4 and now probably 7-5.

 

Weis was 9-2, 9-3, 3-9, 6-6, and 6-6. So let's throw out Weis' 9-2

 

Kelly averages 7.6 wins a year

Weis averaged 6 wins per year

 

If I throw out worst season they are almost identical

But has he really brought us out from the depths of drudgery? Other than the 12-0 miracle run and Alabama beat down he is 7-5, 8-4, 8-4 and now probably 7-5.

 

Weis was 9-2, 9-3, 3-9, 6-6, and 6-6. So let's throw out Weis' 9-2

 

Kelly averages 7.6 wins a year

Weis averaged 6 wins per year

 

If I throw out worst season they are almost identical

 

Throwing out 12-0 is pretty significant, also assuming we are going to lose out is a stretch too. But I don't even necessarily mean weis alone, weis did a lot to help the program as a whole too. I meant more of the Davie Ty era

Throwing out 12-0 is pretty significant, also assuming we are going to lose out is a stretch too. But I don't even necessarily mean weis alone, weis did a lot to help the program as a whole too. I meant more of the Davie Ty era

 

I don't think losing out is a stretch. Louisville's D is legit, and turns out, we aren't very good at holding onto the ball. First time in ND stadium, and I quickly remember losing to UConn and Syracuse with fat bastard.

 

I would say 55/45 we win vs UL and 65/35 we win vs USC.

 

Our kids are down, and we really don't have anything to play for.. We're going bowling, but we're not getting in Jan 1 bowl with 3 losses.

Who left early for the NFL among the defensive front 7? Tuitt is the only one. Lynch is the only transfer and players get hurt on every team throughout their careers. A good-great program would be able to overcome 1 player leaving early, 1 transfer and 2 career ending injuries (Springman and Hounshell.) Yesterday only 2 upperclassman played in the front 7. Why is that? It's not because we recruited too many 4-5 star players as you imply. It's because the staff has not recruited enough depth over the last 5 years.

 

Nix could have come back... and Williams was a projected SR starter

Nix could have come back... and Williams was a projected SR starter

 

Williams was projected for something since his Freshman year.

Nix could have come back... and Williams was a projected SR starter

 

It would never had made sense for Nix to return. He was battling injuries and understood the risk returning another year, he also had his degree.

I think Kelly is realizing that it's impossible to sustain success at ND. No jucos or over signing to make up for injuriez, suspensions and nfl departures. Too much time the kids have to devote to their classes and labs and studying instead of football.

I think Kelly is realizing that it's impossible to sustain success at ND. No jucos or over signing to make up for injuriez, suspensions and nfl departures. Too much time the kids have to devote to their classes and labs and studying instead of football.

 

No offense but I'm really tired of hearing this excuse. This is so 1999.

 

Are the academic hurdles the reason EG has 20 turnovers? I don't think it has much to do with how poorly coached our OL is.

 

I'm not saying it's not tougher here than many schools, but there are probably other schools where it's just as tough if not worse... They probably don't realize the success we've been exposed to, but still...

 

It can be done. Please step off of the ledge.

No offense but I'm really tired of hearing this excuse. This is so 1999.

 

Are the academic hurdles the reason EG has 20 turnovers? I don't think it has much to do with how poorly coached our OL is.

 

I'm not saying it's not tougher here than many schools, but there are probably other schools where it's just as tough if not worse... They probably don't realize the success we've been exposed to, but still...

 

It can be done. Please step off of the ledge.

 

Not over signing, grayshirting, or allowing jucos or any other type of transfers is definitely a hurdle. You can't replace injuries, transfers, nfl departures and suspensions. We are always playing with self imposed sanctions.

 

The academics force the kids to treat them as a job and football as a hobby while other schools allow the players to treat football as a job and academics as a hobby. It's a big difference.

 

Yes, ND academics are elite but every state school has great majors in something. Purdue engineering, Indiana Kelley school of.business, etc. So if a great football player wants a great degree, he can get one and still go to a powerhouse football school. See Barrett Jones nd his 4.0 at Alabama.

No offense but I'm really tired of hearing this excuse. This is so 1999.

 

Are the academic hurdles the reason EG has 20 turnovers? I don't think it has much to do with how poorly coached our OL is.

 

I'm not saying it's not tougher here than many schools, but there are probably other schools where it's just as tough if not worse... They probably don't realize the success we've been exposed to, but still...

 

It can be done. Please step off of the ledge.

 

I think he makes some valid points, if this has been used since 1999 till now why hasn't it stopped? Cause we're not and have not been elite for awhile. While things can be fixed by coaching others cannot.

 

To be honest it's pretty much a fact we are the ones stepping in our way of being elite. The 5 suspended were going to be huge for us, heck Kendall Moore would probably be starting. Let's face it no other school except Notre Dame would have suspended those guys not even Stanford (maybe a game or two), these things happen every year as well as the other self imposed sanctions we hold ourselves too.

 

I'll believe it isn't a big deal when we win a national title, people here even said Holtz left because he couldn't win here with these new restrictions. Florida State, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, LSU, Texas, Ohio State, USC, Miami and Oklahoma. One difference is they all have a BCS national title, are considered elite, are elite every year and they do things completely opposite of Notre Dame.

 

These programs do whatever it takes to win, while we do whatever we can to put ourselves at a disadvantage. It's like beating a dead horse, we will never compete with these programs yearly until we make some changes. While some are in denial I'll believe it when I see it, and IMO it will only come after some serious changes.

 

I'm getting sick of this discussions too, if you are the few that see it another way keep lying to yourself. The proof is in the pudding. We have guys starting like Cam, Austin, Tranquille, and Martini. Descent football players but you think these guys would see the field at Auburn, LSU, or even Ole Miss? No and I don't even think they'd make those teams (not checking but probably none were offered either). We have a Max here, a Riggs there those are our athletes while those schools have them everywhere. Just do yourselves a favor while your watching the ND game flip between the SEC game on commercials and tell yourself you see a level playing field.

Edited November 20, 201410 yr by ndomer4

Not over signing, grayshirting, or allowing jucos or any other type of transfers is definitely a hurdle. You can't replace injuries, transfers, nfl departures and suspensions. We are always playing with self imposed sanctions.

 

The academics force the kids to treat them as a job and football as a hobby while other schools allow the players to treat football as a job and academics as a hobby. It's a big difference.

 

Yes, ND academics are elite but every state school has great majors in something. Purdue engineering, Indiana Kelley school of.business, etc. So if a great football player wants a great degree, he can get one and still go to a powerhouse football school. See Barrett Jones nd his 4.0 at Alabama.

 

Been saying this for years

ND just put 8 players into the NFL dumbass.

 

When was the last time an ND coach has done that in one year? (Answer: never) And you tards want to get rid of the guy. (lol)

 

The delusions are hilarious.

 

Holtz in 1994.Actually, Holtz did it at least 4 times, but some of those times, the draft had more rounds.

Edited November 20, 201410 yr by Sebastianmerckx
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